Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Wheel Wells in or out
| Re: [GMCnet] Wheel Wells in or out [message #188556 is a reply to message #188550] |
Sun, 28 October 2012 17:40   |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
Just tell "us" where you put it and one of "us" will be able to remind you - MAYBE! ;>)
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Henderson
Marginally on topic: A couple of years ago my strength/willingness
quotient reached the point that I had to have help installing/removing
batteries in the passenger side Ragusa tray. So I had to devise a
mechanical aid: http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5425-battery-lift.html
That worked very well until last Friday, when I had to R&R the engine
battery without the coach on the service rack. I literally could NOT do
the job, even with the inner 1/2 of the wheel well liner removed, without a
"tool".
That tool turned out to be a ramp, similar to those used for loading
wheeled vehicles onto trailers: an 18" or so long 1"X6" board with a 6"
wide "angle iron" (actually bent from a scrap of aluminum diamond plate)
"hook" on one end. That hook, screwed to the board at an angle, hooks over
the rear vertical flange of the Ragusa tray. The angle of the hook
positions the other end of the board on top of the outer end of the upper
A-arm. Positioned properly (it might help to angle that end of the board
too), the hook keeps the board in position and prevents the loose end from
slipping off of the A-arm.
With that device in place, it was quite easy to pry the battery over the
tray's flange and drag it onto the board. With the board as an unloading
ramp, I easily slid the Gp27 battery into a position in which even my 75 yo
self could lift it to the ground. Re-installation was even easier since I
didn't have to lift the battery over the tray flange.
Try it, you might like it. I'm tempted to find a hiding place for it in
the coach. Trouble is, when I inevitably need it on the road, I'll either
forget I've got it or where I hid it. :-(
Ken H.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Wheel Wells in or out [message #188573 is a reply to message #188529] |
Sun, 28 October 2012 19:10 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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On Oct 28, 2012, at 1:11 PM, Larry Coldren wrote:
>
>
> As others have said the wheel well liners are there to serve the purpose of
> keeping trash out of the engine and underbody area. It would nice to get
> more ventilation into the engine compartment. Years ago Gene Fisher's site
> had a link to "Wheel Well Ventilation", what it showed was putting a 10"x10"
> louvered metal vent from Home Depot on the inside wall of the wheel well
> liner to allow air movement between the wheel well and the engine
> compartment. Works well for me to keep dirt out and allow more ventilation.
>
>
> Larry Coldren
That was a link to my posting to the GMCMH photos site (actually to another site that went under ((Photopoint)} and later posted to the GMCMHphotos site).
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g3093-engine-compartment-cooling.html
This was done back in 2003. Here is additional information:
> As some of you know, I had experienced severe overheating and vapor lock with my GMC about a month ago which seemed to go away when I took off my wheel liners. I got many suggestions from several of you that including cutting holes into the liners, cutting off the bottom portion, etc.
>
> I have had the small stainless steel louvers in the side of the GMC just above and to the rear of the front wheel openings for several years. They definitely vent off heat, but in my case not enough.
>
> To start my saga, I had put on a 1/2" insulating blanket kit that I had purchased from Daren Paget at the Rayne convention. This blanket did exactly what it was supposed to do -- that is keep the heat and noise out of the driver's compartment. The floor and motor box cover top and the step are is now very cool and we have much less engine and final drive noise in the GMC.
>
> The wheel liners have a raised spot at the top where a bolt goes through to hold the liner to the bottom of the floor above the tires. This normally leaves a 1/2" to 1" space between the top of the liner and the bottom of the floor. My theory is that the liner scoops up air from the lower front and that air then goes over the top of the liner and down below the motorhome floor. When this air goes over this large curved surface it is like air going over an airplane wing and most likely creates a low pressure area (lift on an airplane wing) which pulls out the hot air from the area of the exhaust manifolds and the area under the cover of the motor box.
>
> When I installed the insulating blanket it totally filled the area above the wheel liners. So much so that I had to compress the insulation to get the wheel liners back into place. This then blocked any air flow above the liners and tended to seal the motor box above the engine.
>
> The air blowing through the radiator dives down to go under the motor home which leaves a very hot, dead air space at the top and top rear of the engine box.
>
> My solution was two fold. First, I fashioned air ducts to fit behind the bumper and below the radiator. These lead to two 4" dryer duct hoses that go inside the frame and exit at the top left and right rear corners of the engine box.
>
> I didn't want to just shorten the wheel liners or just cut holes into them because I didn't want water and mud splashing onto my engine and manifolds. I purchased two 8" H x 16" W louvers from Home Depot at a cost of $0.99 each. I cut two 7"x 7" holes into the wheel liners, 1" apart. These were at the top inside of the liner and included about 2" of the top curved portion. The window screen was removed from the inside of the louvers and they were curved at the top and pop riveted to the wheel side of the liners with nine 1/8" pop rivets. They were then painted flat black to minimize their appearance. After driving a while and then stopping, you can put your arm out the driver's window and just feel the hot air pouring out of the louvers and out of the wheel liner area and up the side of the GMC.
>
> A test with a thermometer before and after shows that I am getting at least a 60 degree lower temperature in the motor box. Of course, that's not very scientific because it will vary a lot depending on the ambient temperature and the heat generated by the engine but I can attest to the fact that it is really working well. I drove in 116+ heat for several days in the Phoenix area with no overheating. The first night I got there is was 103 degrees at midnight!!!!
>
> Pictures and a description of the parts can be seen on my PhotoPoint site under Overheating Solutions
> http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=209754 NOTE: now http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g3093-engine-compartment-cooling.html
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Santa Fe, NM
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
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| Re: [GMCnet] Wheel Wells in or out [message #188574 is a reply to message #188508] |
Sun, 28 October 2012 19:13 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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On Oct 28, 2012, at 7:55 AM, Matt Colie wrote:
>
>
> Now, all the flyers will recognize the value of cowl flaps. The increased cooling air flow can only help. I very suspect that, like cowl flaps, the front wheel openings are in a low pressure area when the coach is at road speed. That is just how I see the fender liners, but few aircraft have plywood flooring and batteries (real bad on a 23) in the path of the mud and stuff thrown off the tires. My right front is real full of battery, and they got really nasty when I ran without the right liner for only a few hundred miles. I put it back in, but I keep thinking about it.
>
Matt
Here is something that I had posted back in 2003:
> The wheel liners have a raised spot at the top where a bolt goes through to hold the liner to the bottom of the floor above the tires. This normally leaves a 1/2" to 1" space between the top of the liner and the bottom of the floor. My theory is that the liner scoops up air from the lower front and that air then goes over the top of the liner and down below the motorhome floor. When this air goes over this large curved surface it is like air going over an airplane wing and most likely creates a low pressure area (lift on an airplane wing) which pulls out the hot air from the area of the exhaust manifolds and the area under the cover of the motor box.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
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| Re: Wheel Wells in or out [message #188629 is a reply to message #188356] |
Mon, 29 October 2012 10:12 |
Donovan-formerly Jase386
Messages: 139
Registered: January 2009
Location: Greenville SC
Karma: 0
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Lots of great info here, thanks for all the ideas. Now will go out and stare at it and decide what i want to do. I love them out for ease of inspection and cleaning and working on things,and reduced heat, but leaves the concern of water on hot manifolds to question.
Donovan, Greenville SC
1975 Eleganza II
81,500 miles
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| Re: Wheel Wells in or out [message #188783 is a reply to message #188356] |
Wed, 31 October 2012 00:04 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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OUT. I don't drive in the rain usually...
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: Wheel Wells in or out [message #188791 is a reply to message #188356] |
Wed, 31 October 2012 04:47 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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| Donovan-formerly Jase386 wrote on Fri, 26 October 2012 13:26 |
does anyone run all the time with their Wheel wells out?
i have been for a while now and curious if it helps or hurts. Other than the water splashing on the bottom of the floor are there any other cons. ...
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If you run with your wheel-wells out, be sure and latch down your front hatches... every time, and check them when you stop.
Traveling about 65mph, without the wheel wells, I got a side wind strong enough to lift one hatch. It smashed up against the body, destroying the folding prop thingy.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: Wheel Wells in or out [message #188793 is a reply to message #188791] |
Wed, 31 October 2012 05:30 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Mike Miller wrote on Wed, 31 October 2012 04:47 |
| Donovan-formerly Jase386 wrote on Fri, 26 October 2012 13:26 |
does anyone run all the time with their Wheel wells out?
i have been for a while now and curious if it helps or hurts. Other than the water splashing on the bottom of the floor are there any other cons. ...
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If you run with your wheel-wells out, be sure and latch down your front hatches... every time, and check them when you stop.
Traveling about 65mph, without the wheel wells, I got a side wind strong enough to lift one hatch. It smashed up against the body, destroying the folding prop thingy.
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I know someone that did the same thing with the wheels wells installed. I do not think this had anything to do with the removal of the wheel wells.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Wheel Wells in or out [message #245073 is a reply to message #188356] |
Tue, 25 March 2014 18:27 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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I'm leaving mine in as well, even though I live where we only get about 7" of rain per year. I think (though it's a guess) that the airflow over the critical parts (radiator and motor) is better with the liners in place to help keep it from "leaking out" the sides. I do know that I haven't had any issues with overheating, even when driving in REALLY hot temperatures (115 plus on the road).
I should mention that I do have a set of the side "shark gill" vents (Ragusa, I think) on my coach. They do seem to move quite a bit of heat out of the engine compartment. There are also panels in place behind the grille to keep the air moving over the radiator (vertical panels at each end of the radiator).
But what I have works so well, I wouldn't dream of changing it, even if it wouldn't result in getting my batteries, headlights and engine compartment dirtier.
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: Wheel Wells in or out [message #245086 is a reply to message #245073] |
Tue, 25 March 2014 19:52 |
mikethebike
Messages: 331
Registered: January 2014
Karma: 0
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Those vertical panels work in conjunction with the lower shroud to force more air through the radiator. The survivor 1973 that is for sale here in SC does not have them. In 1966 a GTO without A/C had a partial shroud over the top of the radiator and a full shroud if it was a factory A/C car. If you removed the small shroud from the non-A/C car it would overheat in traffic but not on the highway.
I also have the sharks gill extractors and I can tell you that when the 'y' connector in the heater hose broke the steam coming out of the vents proved to me they WORK!!!
The 1970 BOSS-302 I owned 40 years ago had the Chassis-Modification aluminum sheet metal shroud much like the GMC. Except it also covered the top of the radiator out to the grill. It also had the Lincoln town car front discs with the stocker moved to the rear and a disc brake on the drive shaft for a parking brake. That was a fun car after we finished correcting some of the defects Ford put in it.
| habbyguy wrote on Tue, 25 March 2014 18:27 |
I'm leaving mine in as well, even though I live where we only get about 7" of rain per year. I think (though it's a guess) that the airflow over the critical parts (radiator and motor) is better with the liners in place to help keep it from "leaking out" the sides. I do know that I haven't had any issues with overheating, even when driving in REALLY hot temperatures (115 plus on the road).
I should mention that I do have a set of the side "shark gill" vents (Ragusa, I think) on my coach. They do seem to move quite a bit of heat out of the engine compartment. There are also panels in place behind the grille to keep the air moving over the radiator (vertical panels at each end of the radiator).
But what I have works so well, I wouldn't dream of changing it, even if it wouldn't result in getting my batteries, headlights and engine compartment dirtier.
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