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| [GMCnet] Shudder in 1st and 2nd - under fairly high throttle? [message #243550] |
Fri, 14 March 2014 21:52  |
Rob
Messages: 651
Registered: November 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
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I'm almost at the end of my first week of ownership and noticed something that made me search the old posts...
When I'm accelerating fairly briskly (like I quite often do!) I noticed a bit of "shudder" in 1st and 2nd. Seems non-existant in 3rd. I wasn't really sure of its source - but started thinking that perhaps it was due engine mounts being worn or perhaps was odd torque steer or something else...
So I ran the engine with the cover off and there was very little movement when going between D and R - so I figured the mounts weren't the cause.
I then noticed that the transmission was down one pint of fluid - so I added that, but didn't get a chance to drive it again. Then tonight I was reading about kick down switches (good Friday night reading) and came across this post:
http://gmc.mybirdfeeder.net/GMCforum/index.php?t=msg&rid=0&th=11530&goto=82361#msg_82361
Where "druber" asked: "Have you had any shuddering pulling away from a dead stop at a fairly high throttle?", in relation to trans fluid temps.
So - it made me think that perhaps the shudder could be related to the slightly low fluid. Is that crazy? Just wondering if others have experienced the shudder (it sounds like others have) and was curious what the issue may be. It's not the end of the world - but I'd prefer it wasn't there...
Perhaps it is now gone - with the fluid being topped up? I'll likely drive it tomorrow and see...
Thanks,
Rob
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
Victoria, BC
gmc@thebaileys.ca
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76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
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| Re: [GMCnet] Shudder in 1st and 2nd - under fairly high throttle? [message #243589 is a reply to message #243581] |
Sat, 15 March 2014 08:12  |
Kingsley Coach
Messages: 2691
Registered: March 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
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I do not run with a lower level of fluid, but isn't that recommended by
some to avoid blowing out the trans filler tube...or am I mistaken?
Mike in NS
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 8:19 AM, Thomas Phipps <tph1pp5@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Yes, low fluid will cause the problem you describe. Recommend checking
> before driving much further. Low fluid will destroy a transmission, much
> to my dismay.
> Tom, MS II
> --
> 1975 GMC Avion
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Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
* At my age, getting lucky means walking into a room and remembering what I
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| Re: [GMCnet] Shudder in 1st and 2nd - under fairly high throttle? [message #243596 is a reply to message #243569] |
Sat, 15 March 2014 09:39 |
Rob
Messages: 651
Registered: November 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
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Thanks for the replies.
The CV's have been replaced recently (I think - I'd need to check to be sure) during the "1 ton" upgrade. Perhaps that's just the outer CV's?
I've added the fluid and will test and measure the fluid again to see whether there is a change!
Rob
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
Victoria, BC
gmc@thebaileys.ca
On 2014-03-14, at 10:34 PM, gene barrow wrote:
>
>
> Rob,
> Worn inner cv joints will produce a shudder or severe vibration when accelerating from a stop. It goes away as you gain speed and the load/strain diminishes.
> Some one here will tell you how to check for that.
> --
> Gene Barrow
> Lake Almanor, Ca.
> 1976 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Shudder in 1st and 2nd - under fairly high throttle? [message #243600 is a reply to message #243597] |
Sat, 15 March 2014 10:09 |
Rob
Messages: 651
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Location: Victoria, BC
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Not too much spinning now - I've fixed the issues with the accelerator pedal (that Ken was trying to get sorted out) and that seemed to make it very easy to spin when starting.
When I picked it up, the pedal was VERY firm and you had to really stomp it to get it to move. Once the pedal started moving - you were suddenly at 1/3 throttle! If you were facing uphill, turning slightly or it was a little damp (which it was!) - it was difficult to start without getting some spin. It was frustrating at best...
Ken had it in a shop and they told him nothing could be done (and gave him a fairly substantial bill!). I was very happy the cruise control was working for the drive home, it would have been a much longer drive without it!
I looked at the firm pedal and was thinking about attempting to reduce the tension on one of the springs on the Holley TB - only to realize that the cruise connection and the pedal connection where at considerably different distances from the centre of rotation for the throttle plates. I moved the pedal connection to share the same pin as the cruise (the pin looks like it was made to actually hold both) and voila! - a NORMAL gas pedal!
I'm still having some problem with WOT - but that's the least of my worries compared to the firm pedal. I've tried a few fixes for WOT, but none have been great. I'll try to find some suitable lead weights that I can install at the pedal end of the cable and that will likely get me closer.
But I'll continue to monitor the shudder situation. I don't think I'm accelerating TOO quickly - but you never know. I spent a lot of time (many years ago) driving a 73 Eldo and don't recall the same shudder, but the Eldo would be a lightweight in comparison!
Thanks,
Rob
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
Victoria, BC
gmc@thebaileys.ca
On 2014-03-15, at 7:46 AM, James Hupy wrote:
> ROB, make sure you are not spinning the wheels. I drove your coach over 100
> miles and it goes like jet stink. It definitely will spin the tires and
> chirp them pretty good when it shifts up on the 1-2 change. If you are on
> marginal traction surfaces most gmc's will do the same.
> JIM
> On Mar 15, 2014 7:39 AM, "Rob" <gmc@thebaileys.ca> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the replies.
>>
>> The CV's have been replaced recently (I think - I'd need to check to be
>> sure) during the "1 ton" upgrade. Perhaps that's just the outer CV's?
>>
>> I've added the fluid and will test and measure the fluid again to see
>> whether there is a change!
>>
>> Rob
>> 76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
>> Victoria, BC
>> gmc@thebaileys.ca
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| Re: [GMCnet] Shudder in 1st and 2nd - under fairly high throttle? [message #243640 is a reply to message #243600] |
Sat, 15 March 2014 17:29 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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You can swap the right with the left if you want to save some funds, but if
it is too far gone, you'll not benefit, but worth the try.
Be sure and lock tight the bolts as they cn back out.
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 8:09 AM, Rob <gmc@thebaileys.ca> wrote:
> Not too much spinning now - I've fixed the issues with the accelerator
> pedal (that Ken was trying to get sorted out) and that seemed to make it
> very easy to spin when starting.
>
> When I picked it up, the pedal was VERY firm and you had to really stomp
> it to get it to move. Once the pedal started moving - you were suddenly at
> 1/3 throttle! If you were facing uphill, turning slightly or it was a
> little damp (which it was!) - it was difficult to start without getting
> some spin. It was frustrating at best...
>
> Ken had it in a shop and they told him nothing could be done (and gave him
> a fairly substantial bill!). I was very happy the cruise control was
> working for the drive home, it would have been a much longer drive without
> it!
>
> I looked at the firm pedal and was thinking about attempting to reduce the
> tension on one of the springs on the Holley TB - only to realize that the
> cruise connection and the pedal connection where at considerably different
> distances from the centre of rotation for the throttle plates. I moved the
> pedal connection to share the same pin as the cruise (the pin looks like it
> was made to actually hold both) and voila! - a NORMAL gas pedal!
>
> I'm still having some problem with WOT - but that's the least of my
> worries compared to the firm pedal. I've tried a few fixes for WOT, but
> none have been great. I'll try to find some suitable lead weights that I
> can install at the pedal end of the cable and that will likely get me
> closer.
>
> But I'll continue to monitor the shudder situation. I don't think I'm
> accelerating TOO quickly - but you never know. I spent a lot of time (many
> years ago) driving a 73 Eldo and don't recall the same shudder, but the
> Eldo would be a lightweight in comparison!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rob
> 76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
> Victoria, BC
> gmc@thebaileys.ca
>
> On 2014-03-15, at 7:46 AM, James Hupy wrote:
>
> > ROB, make sure you are not spinning the wheels. I drove your coach over
> 100
> > miles and it goes like jet stink. It definitely will spin the tires and
> > chirp them pretty good when it shifts up on the 1-2 change. If you are on
> > marginal traction surfaces most gmc's will do the same.
> > JIM
> > On Mar 15, 2014 7:39 AM, "Rob" <gmc@thebaileys.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks for the replies.
> >>
> >> The CV's have been replaced recently (I think - I'd need to check to be
> >> sure) during the "1 ton" upgrade. Perhaps that's just the outer CV's?
> >>
> >> I've added the fluid and will test and measure the fluid again to see
> >> whether there is a change!
> >>
> >> Rob
> >> 76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
> >> Victoria, BC
> >> gmc@thebaileys.ca
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Shudder in 1st and 2nd - under fairly high throttle? [message #243658 is a reply to message #243640] |
Sat, 15 March 2014 18:50 |
Rob
Messages: 651
Registered: November 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Are you referring to the CV shafts?
I'm assuming that they are mostly new - but that could be the source of the shudder. I'll have to drive it a bit more next week and see what it feels like.
Thanks,
Rob
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
Victoria, BC
gmc@thebaileys.ca
On 2014-03-15, at 3:29 PM, Jim Kanomata wrote:
> You can swap the right with the left if you want to save some funds, but if
> it is too far gone, you'll not benefit, but worth the try.
> Be sure and lock tight the bolts as they cn back out.
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 8:09 AM, Rob <gmc@thebaileys.ca> wrote:
>
>> Not too much spinning now - I've fixed the issues with the accelerator
>> pedal (that Ken was trying to get sorted out) and that seemed to make it
>> very easy to spin when starting.
>>
>> When I picked it up, the pedal was VERY firm and you had to really stomp
>> it to get it to move. Once the pedal started moving - you were suddenly at
>> 1/3 throttle! If you were facing uphill, turning slightly or it was a
>> little damp (which it was!) - it was difficult to start without getting
>> some spin. It was frustrating at best...
>>
>> Ken had it in a shop and they told him nothing could be done (and gave him
>> a fairly substantial bill!). I was very happy the cruise control was
>> working for the drive home, it would have been a much longer drive without
>> it!
>>
>> I looked at the firm pedal and was thinking about attempting to reduce the
>> tension on one of the springs on the Holley TB - only to realize that the
>> cruise connection and the pedal connection where at considerably different
>> distances from the centre of rotation for the throttle plates. I moved the
>> pedal connection to share the same pin as the cruise (the pin looks like it
>> was made to actually hold both) and voila! - a NORMAL gas pedal!
>>
>> I'm still having some problem with WOT - but that's the least of my
>> worries compared to the firm pedal. I've tried a few fixes for WOT, but
>> none have been great. I'll try to find some suitable lead weights that I
>> can install at the pedal end of the cable and that will likely get me
>> closer.
>>
>> But I'll continue to monitor the shudder situation. I don't think I'm
>> accelerating TOO quickly - but you never know. I spent a lot of time (many
>> years ago) driving a 73 Eldo and don't recall the same shudder, but the
>> Eldo would be a lightweight in comparison!
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Rob
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Rob -
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76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
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| Re: [GMCnet] Shudder in 1st and 2nd - under fairly high throttle? [message #243942 is a reply to message #243596] |
Mon, 17 March 2014 13:21 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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| Rob wrote on Sat, 15 March 2014 08:39 |
Thanks for the replies.
The CV's have been replaced recently (I think - I'd need to check to be sure) during the "1 ton" upgrade. Perhaps that's just the outer CV's?
I've added the fluid and will test and measure the fluid again to see whether there is a change!
Rob
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
Victoria, BC
gmc@thebaileys.ca
On 2014-03-14, at 10:34 PM, gene barrow wrote:
>
>
> Rob,
> Worn inner cv joints will produce a shudder or severe vibration when accelerating from a stop. It goes away as you gain speed and the load/strain diminishes.
> Some one here will tell you how to check for that.
> --
> Gene Barrow
> Lake Almanor, Ca.
> 1976 Palm Beach
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Perfectly good inner joints can cause a shudder if the ride height is too high. They are "tri pot" joints which have a very low tolerance for excess angle. I would check the ride height per the GM manual.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Shudder in 1st and 2nd - under fairly high throttle? [message #244131 is a reply to message #243979] |
Tue, 18 March 2014 14:53 |
Rob
Messages: 651
Registered: November 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Thanks again.
I'll check ride height - as soon as I can get it back onto a firm surface! I drove it a fair bit yesterday and was carefully watching for the "shudder". It wasn't too pronounced - so I'm not sure if it is better since the transmission fluid was added or not...
Next time I drive it - I'll continue monitoring!
Rob
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
Victoria, BC
gmc@thebaileys.ca
On 2014-03-17, at 3:47 PM, gene barrow wrote:
>
>
> I like Bob's answer- won't cost anything but a bit of labor to repair that.
> --
> Gene Barrow
> Lake Almanor, Ca.
> 1976 Palm Beach
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