Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Engine from S & S Spokane
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine from S & S Spokane [message #243559 is a reply to message #243538] |
Fri, 14 March 2014 23:02   |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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Senior Member |
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| jimk wrote on Fri, 14 March 2014 18:41 |
I suggested an engine from S & S and only 350 miles later, the rod bearing
went out.
Well, they have a good automated system, but it did not work here.
Lets see what kind of adjustment they will do for him.
If they do not do a worthwhile adjustment for him, I will suggest others.
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
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Thanks, Jim. But this is just spooky. I am so tired of hearing about Olds 455's failing. (Oh, I know, Dick Paterson does a great job) It just seems like so many new engines, some put together carefully and some put together on an assembly line, fail.
I have read all about how there are "tricks" one needs to know about to do it right, but we seem to have so many early failures. Just makes me tired. 350s are rebuilt by the tens of thousands. Kids have their foot in them from the moment they fire up. What's with this? Is the 455 just a poorly engineered engine?
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine from S & S Spokane [message #243563 is a reply to message #243559] |
Fri, 14 March 2014 23:39 |
mrgmc3
Messages: 210
Registered: September 2013
Location: W Washington
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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| George Beckman wrote on Fri, 14 March 2014 23:02 |
What's with this? Is the 455 just a poorly engineered engine?
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Far from it. Olds V8s are one of the better developed engines from the period. Olds 455s were quite popular in the 60s and 70s in marine applications, which is a pretty severe duty cycle. I worked my way through school in the late 70s / early 80s in a high volume Olds dealer. In 5 years I never saw a bottom end failure of a 260, 350 or 455 olds gas engine. Valvetrain, mostly rocker pivots, yes. Timing gears / chains, sure. Cooling systems were probably their biggest Achilles heel in that era.
I suspect these rebuild failures are simply poor workmanship, or inferior parts or both. Rebuilding these engines is not rocket science, but it does take cleanliness, patience and a willingness to stick to proper tolerances on everything.
Chris Geils - Twin Cities / W Wa
1978 26' Kingsley w/ very few mods; PD9040, aux trans cooler, one repaint in stock colors, R134a, Al rad, Alcoas, 54k mi
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine from S & S Spokane [message #243567 is a reply to message #243559] |
Sat, 15 March 2014 00:20 |
gbarrow2
Messages: 765
Registered: February 2004
Location: Lake Almanor, Ca./ Red Bl...
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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George,
I think that the problem is that we only hear about the ones that go south.
Bob Lamey rebuilt a lot of 455's without problems. But he always worried about them.
My Lamey rebuild went over 100,000 miles without incident until bad hearing, pilot error, and a loose distributor caused a piston failure.
MGMGMC is still using the same machinist that Lamey used and also has had great success rebuilding the motorhome engines.
Jim Bounds also has delivered a lot of his Koba engines with very low failure rate.
And we can't hang all the shame on rebuilt Oldsmobiles. Ken H. has had more than his share of problems with rebuilt Caddys.
Gene Barrow
Lake Almanor, Ca.
1976 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine from S & S Spokane [message #243575 is a reply to message #243559] |
Sat, 15 March 2014 02:18 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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George,
I have had the pleasure of attending a number of GMCMI Conventions and heard presentations from both Dick Paterson and Joe Mondello
on rebuilding Olds 455's.
After listening to these presentation I came to realize that it boils down to one "trick": ATTENTION TO DETAIL!
I got lucky and bought a fire damaged Paterson Stage II engine (blueprinted and balanced) up in Canada for $2000. I called Dick and
he suggested I disassemble, clean, inspect, and reassemble it. As I disassembled it I found more and more examples of Dick's
attention to detail. It's why his engines are costly when compared to other engines out there. He told me to call him when I was
ready to reassemble it and he'd walk me though his procedures step by step.
The engine in Double Trouble was rebuilt by Ken Frey about 80,000 miles ago and it runs at 70 mph all day long no problem. I did
install a Q-jet and Distributer from Dick and a double row timing chain.
I have heard reports of jewels as well as junk from other suppliers but I am not going to comment on any other sources as I have NO
DIRECT EXPERIENCE.
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: George Beckman
Thanks, Jim. But this is just spooky. I am so tired of hearing about Olds 455's failing. (Oh, I know, Dick Paterson does a great
job) It just seems like so many new engines, some put together carefully and some put together on an assembly line, fail.
I have read all about how there are "tricks" one needs to know about to do it right, but we seem to have so many early failures.
Just makes me tired. 350s are rebuilt by the tens of thousands. Kids have their foot in them from the moment they fire up. What's
with this? Is the 455 just a poorly engineered engine?
George
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine from S & S Spokane [message #243582 is a reply to message #243575] |
Sat, 15 March 2014 06:47 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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This is the place where we look for both help and answers. Because of this, we tend to discuss failures and repairs. Yes, all things mechanical will fail. Attention to detail is always part of the solution. You do pay for this, if you do not do it yourself.
I have failed one transmission and one engine due to errors in the above that I did. I have had a engine fail due to a plastic part failing, where a metal part would have never failed.
All the rest of the stuff is part of the fun and excitement of owning a 39 year old vehicle.
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine from S & S Spokane [message #243586 is a reply to message #243582] |
Sat, 15 March 2014 08:03 |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769
Registered: February 2013
Location: Columbia, SC
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| tphipps wrote on Sat, 15 March 2014 06:47 |
You do pay for this, if you do not do it yourself....
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What was the old ad: "you can pay me now, or pay me later"?
| Quote: |
All the rest of the stuff is part of the fun and excitement of owning a 39 year old vehicle.
Tom, MS II
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This. The problem is a lot of us do not live across town from a Koba or Patterson, or if we do, we do not know it. The funny part is, I did not send my engine to Orlando because I did not think I could afford to have the GMC sit unmoveable in the driveway for the time of the rebuild, yet by the time my brother and I got through working nights and weekends, the time frame was the same (and neither of us is worthy enough to carry the tools for a Drew Koba or Dick Patterson). There was plenty enough excitement in getting the engine and transmission out and in and hooked back up...correctly. I will be crossing my fingers for the first 100k. Luckily I bought a spare and rebuilt it, so the original motor is on a pallet ready to be shipped if this one grenades.
Lesson learned - If you buy anything but a completely rebuilt coach and you are not a mechanical whiz, keep a healthy fund set aside for the engine and transmission.
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine from S & S Spokane [message #243592 is a reply to message #243586] |
Sat, 15 March 2014 08:24 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Joe,
I'll bet you have GOOD luck with your rebuilt engine. Before getting home
with my "new" coach in '98, at 59,065 original miles, the 455 ate #4 intake
valve, totalling the engine, including cracking the block. To make a long
story short, I found another engine, had machine work done in a S. GA NAPA,
and assembled it myself (after a 30+ year hiatus) under my open carport.
That engine's now in my son's GMC with over 80,000 troublefree miles on
it, running strong and burning no more oil than at 10,000. None of my
multiple subsequent 455 and 500 engine problems, that everyone's heard
about, can be directly attributed to assembly problems. Careful amateurs
CAN build reliable engines; professionals CAN build junk.
JMHO,
Ken H.
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 9:03 AM, Joe Weir wrote:
>
>
> tphipps wrote on Sat, 15 March 2014 06:47
> > You do pay for this, if you do not do it yourself....
>
>
> What was the old ad: "you can pay me now, or pay me later"?
>
> Quote:
> > All the rest of the stuff is part of the fun and excitement of owning a
> 39 year old vehicle.
> > Tom, MS II
>
>
> This. The problem is a lot of us do not live across town from a Koba or
> Patterson, or if we do, we do not know it. The funny part is, I did not
> send my engine to Orlando because I did not think I could afford to have
> the GMC sit unmoveable in the driveway for the time of the rebuild, yet
> by the time my brother and I got through working nights and weekends, the
> time frame was the same (and neither of us is worthy enough to carry the
> tools for a Drew Koba or Dick Patterson). There was plenty enough
> excitement in getting the engine and transmission out and in and hooked
> back up...correctly. I will be crossing my fingers for the first 100k.
> Luckily I bought a spare and rebuilt it, so the original motor is on a
> pallet ready to be shipped if this one grenades.
>
> Lesson learned - If you buy anything but a completely rebuilt coach and
> you are not a mechanical whiz, keep a healthy fund set aside for the engine
> and transmission.
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine from S & S Spokane [message #243599 is a reply to message #243592] |
Sat, 15 March 2014 10:05 |
powwerjon
Messages: 849
Registered: March 2013
Karma: -2
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Senior Member |
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The motor was from S & J that lasted 350 miles not S&S!
J.R. Wright
30' Buskirk Stretch
Michigan
On Location in Tucson
On Mar 15, 2014, at 6:24 AM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Joe,
>
> I'll bet you have GOOD luck with your rebuilt engine. Before getting home
> with my "new" coach in '98, at 59,065 original miles, the 455 ate #4 intake
> valve, totalling the engine, including cracking the block. To make a long
> story short, I found another engine, had machine work done in a S. GA NAPA,
> and assembled it myself (after a 30+ year hiatus) under my open carport.
> That engine's now in my son's GMC with over 80,000 troublefree miles on
> it, running strong and burning no more oil than at 10,000. None of my
> multiple subsequent 455 and 500 engine problems, that everyone's heard
> about, can be directly attributed to assembly problems. Careful amateurs
> CAN build reliable engines; professionals CAN build junk.
>
> JMHO,
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 9:03 AM, Joe Weir wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> tphipps wrote on Sat, 15 March 2014 06:47
>>> You do pay for this, if you do not do it yourself....
>>
>>
>> What was the old ad: "you can pay me now, or pay me later"?
>>
>> Quote:
>>> All the rest of the stuff is part of the fun and excitement of owning a
>> 39 year old vehicle.
>>> Tom, MS II
>>
>>
>> This. The problem is a lot of us do not live across town from a Koba or
>> Patterson, or if we do, we do not know it. The funny part is, I did not
>> send my engine to Orlando because I did not think I could afford to have
>> the GMC sit unmoveable in the driveway for the time of the rebuild, yet
>> by the time my brother and I got through working nights and weekends, the
>> time frame was the same (and neither of us is worthy enough to carry the
>> tools for a Drew Koba or Dick Patterson). There was plenty enough
>> excitement in getting the engine and transmission out and in and hooked
>> back up...correctly. I will be crossing my fingers for the first 100k.
>> Luckily I bought a spare and rebuilt it, so the original motor is on a
>> pallet ready to be shipped if this one grenades.
>>
>> Lesson learned - If you buy anything but a completely rebuilt coach and
>> you are not a mechanical whiz, keep a healthy fund set aside for the engine
>> and transmission.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine from S & S Spokane [message #243607 is a reply to message #243599] |
Sat, 15 March 2014 11:15 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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| powwerjon wrote on Sat, 15 March 2014 10:05 |
The motor was from S & J that lasted 350 miles not S&S!
J.R. Wright
30' Buskirk Stretch
Michigan
On Location in Tucson...
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It would be really nice if the moderators/admins could edit the thread and the first post to reflect the correct builder.
| Ken Henderson wrote on Sat, 15 March 2014 08:24 |
... Careful amateurs CAN build reliable engines; professionals CAN build junk.
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YES! Although as the old saw goes..."Stuff happens sometimes." It happens to NASA. Stuff happens to Dick Paterson, Koba, that Pinkerton loudmouth and everyone else who does things.
As Jim K said, the proof of the rebuilder is in the warranty. Unfortunately, the R&R is the biggest expense and pain imo and I doubt they will cover that.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine from S & S Spokane [message #243608 is a reply to message #243553] |
Sat, 15 March 2014 11:20 |
pyolet
Messages: 78
Registered: August 2006
Location: Helena, MT
Karma: 0
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Member |
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Rob, that link is NOT the S&S facility in Spokane. This is: http://www.rebuilt-auto-engines.com/
Woody.
| USAussie wrote on Fri, 14 March 2014 21:16 |
Kerry,
There is an S&S; here's a link to them:
http://tinyurl.com/7cwfpg7
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Kerry Pinkerton
Jim, Do you mean S and J up in Washington or another company called S and S?
Kerry Pinkerton
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1975 Avion 26' Transmode
TZE365V100846 Helena, Montana
EBL TBI, AL in man, in-tank pumps, AL rad, rear discs, Alcoas, Dakota Digital dash, all LED int and ext roof markers, Generac, Hubler torsion bars, Quadrabags, Manny tranny, 3.70, Zip Dee.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine from S & S Spokane [message #243623 is a reply to message #243607] |
Sat, 15 March 2014 15:45 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Kerry Pinkerton wrote on Sat, 15 March 2014 11:15 |
It would be really nice if the moderators/admins could edit the thread and the first post to reflect the correct builder.
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You can edit it yourself. You display it and click on edit. This one nice thing about the forum. You can fix your mistakes and typos. I do it all the time.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine from S & S Spokane [message #243626 is a reply to message #243623] |
Sat, 15 March 2014 16:15 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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| Ken Burton wrote on Sat, 15 March 2014 15:45 |
You can edit it yourself. You display it and click on edit. This one nice thing about the forum. You can fix your mistakes and typos. I do it all the time.
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Ken, we can edit our own posts but not other peoples. I can't edit Jim K's.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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