Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Steering Corrected by Alex Ferrara
| [GMCnet] Steering Corrected by Alex Ferrara [message #242489] |
Thu, 06 March 2014 11:21  |
Betty Chimento
Messages: 20
Registered: August 2013
Karma: 0
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While visiting Alex & Lori, Alex Ferrara corrected our steering issues. We had to wrestle with the coach all over the road. He said the steering was 90 degrees off. He jacked up the front, put jack stands underneath. He accidentally bumped one of the stands & it moved. The coach on that side was several inches above the that stand. So it was like on 3 legs.
Thank You Alex Ferrara. We can drive it with 2 fingers. It's a dream.
Besides that, the hospitality was fantastic.
Looking forward to Montgomery.
Bill & Betty Chimento
Diamondhead, MS
78 Eleganza Clasco
Dixielanders
Sunshine Statesmen
Sent from my iPad
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Corrected by Alex Ferrara [message #242524 is a reply to message #242489] |
Thu, 06 March 2014 16:04  |
skip2
Messages: 544
Registered: September 2011
Location: Winter Haven,FL (center o...
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Could you or Alex explain in a little more detail so that my dense powers of understanding can grasp what he did?
Enquiring minds want to know.
Thanks
Skip Hartline
74 Canyon Lands, FiTech,
3.7 FD LSD, Manny Tranny,
Springfield Distributor,
2001 Chevy Tracker Ragtop Towd
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Corrected by Alex Ferrara [message #242527 is a reply to message #242489] |
Thu, 06 March 2014 16:24 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Betty,
Since I couldn't find anything wrong other than the tire pressure in your GMC was at 80 psi when I checked it last year I am REALLY
interested in finding out exactly what Alex found and what he did to fix it.
I'm sorry but I don't understand what you mean by "He said the steering was 90 degrees off" and "The coach on that side was several
inches above the that stand. So it was like on 3 legs."
I tried to call Alex but he's not answering his home phone, do you happen to have his email address or cell phone number?
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Betty Chimento
While visiting Alex & Lori, Alex Ferrara corrected our steering issues. We had to wrestle with the coach all over the road. He
said the steering was 90 degrees off. He jacked up the front, put jack stands underneath. He accidentally bumped one of the stands
& it moved. The coach on that side was several inches above the that stand. So it was like on 3 legs.
Thank You Alex Ferrara. We can drive it with 2 fingers. It's a dream.
Besides that, the hospitality was fantastic.
Looking forward to Montgomery.
Bill & Betty
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Corrected by Alex Ferrara [message #242550 is a reply to message #242527] |
Thu, 06 March 2014 18:48 |
Betty Chimento
Messages: 20
Registered: August 2013
Karma: 0
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Alex said he went to a Steering Session by Dave Lenzi & follows his instructions.
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 6, 2014, at 4:24 PM, "Robert Mueller" <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> Betty,
>
> Since I couldn't find anything wrong other than the tire pressure in your GMC was at 80 psi when I checked it last year I am REALLY
> interested in finding out exactly what Alex found and what he did to fix it.
>
> I'm sorry but I don't understand what you mean by "He said the steering was 90 degrees off" and "The coach on that side was several
> inches above the that stand. So it was like on 3 legs."
>
> I tried to call Alex but he's not answering his home phone, do you happen to have his email address or cell phone number?
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Betty Chimento
>
> While visiting Alex & Lori, Alex Ferrara corrected our steering issues. We had to wrestle with the coach all over the road. He
> said the steering was 90 degrees off. He jacked up the front, put jack stands underneath. He accidentally bumped one of the stands
> & it moved. The coach on that side was several inches above the that stand. So it was like on 3 legs.
>
> Thank You Alex Ferrara. We can drive it with 2 fingers. It's a dream.
>
> Besides that, the hospitality was fantastic.
>
> Looking forward to Montgomery.
>
> Bill & Betty
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Corrected by Alex Ferrara [message #242587 is a reply to message #242550] |
Thu, 06 March 2014 23:45 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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G'day,
I think I know what Alex did re the steering but the 3 leg bit still has me puzzled.
I tried to call him at around 9:00 pm but he had gone to sleep, evidently he follows Ben Franklin's adage of; "early to bed, early
to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise."
I'm normally up until 00:30 - 01:00 which speaks volumes about my health, wealth, and wisdom! ;-)
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Betty Chimento
Alex said he went to a Steering Session by Dave Lenzi & follows his instructions.
Bill & Betty
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Corrected by Alex Ferrara [message #242594 is a reply to message #242587] |
Fri, 07 March 2014 01:52 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Rob
I believe he was talking about when he jacked up the front end. One side lifted from the jack stand when he jacked up the other side.
Emery Stora
> On Mar 6, 2014, at 10:48 PM, Robert Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
>
> G'day,
>
> I think I know what Alex did re the steering but the 3 leg bit still has me puzzled.
>
> I tried to call him at around 9:00 pm but he had gone to sleep, evidently he follows Ben Franklin's adage of; "early to bed, early
> to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise."
>
> I'm normally up until 00:30 - 01:00 which speaks volumes about my health, wealth, and wisdom! ;-)
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Betty Chimento
>
> Alex said he went to a Steering Session by Dave Lenzi & follows his instructions.
>
> Bill & Betty
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Corrected by Alex Ferrara [message #242609 is a reply to message #242587] |
Fri, 07 March 2014 08:18 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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G'day,
I just got off the phone with Alex and what he found was that the steering box was not on center, it was off by 90 degrees. He
removed the steering CV joint and lower steering shaft (slip joint) and set the box on center. He then re-installed the CV joint and
lower steering shaft and aligned the front wheels.
The jack stand moved when he hit it with his leg because the rear suspension in Bill and Betty's coach is not operating properly.
One side was higher than the other. He instructed them to inflate the bags and bring both sides to the same height and shut off the
bags.
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Mueller
G'day,
I think I know what Alex did re the steering but the 3 leg bit still has me puzzled.
I tried to call him at around 9:00 pm but he had gone to sleep, evidently he follows Ben Franklin's adage of; "early to bed, early
to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise."
I'm normally up until 00:30 - 01:00 which speaks volumes about my health, wealth, and wisdom! ;-)
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Betty Chimento
Alex said he went to a Steering Session by Dave Lenzi & follows his instructions.
Bill & Betty
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Corrected by Alex Ferrara [message #242717 is a reply to message #242594] |
Fri, 07 March 2014 23:18 |
Brian Waddell
Messages: 409
Registered: March 2010
Karma: -4
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Senior Member |
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I would like more info on this....can anybody elaborate...thamks briam 78 ele 455
> From: emerystora@mac.com
> Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 00:52:00 -0700
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Steering Corrected by Alex Ferrara
>
> Rob
> I believe he was talking about when he jacked up the front end. One side lifted from the jack stand when he jacked up the other side.
>
> Emery Stora
>
> > On Mar 6, 2014, at 10:48 PM, Robert Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> >
> > G'day,
> >
> > I think I know what Alex did re the steering but the 3 leg bit still has me puzzled.
> >
> > I tried to call him at around 9:00 pm but he had gone to sleep, evidently he follows Ben Franklin's adage of; "early to bed, early
> > to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise."
> >
> > I'm normally up until 00:30 - 01:00 which speaks volumes about my health, wealth, and wisdom! ;-)
> >
> > Regards,
> > Rob M.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Betty Chimento
> >
> > Alex said he went to a Steering Session by Dave Lenzi & follows his instructions.
> >
> > Bill & Betty
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Corrected by Alex Ferrara [message #242720 is a reply to message #242609] |
Fri, 07 March 2014 23:22 |
Brian Waddell
Messages: 409
Registered: March 2010
Karma: -4
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Senior Member |
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how does a persom knpw that the steering box is off 90 degrees...And do not tell me it is because it doesn't steer properly...brian 77 ele 455
> From: robmueller@iinet.net.au
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2014 01:18:34 +1100
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Steering Corrected by Alex Ferrara
>
> G'day,
>
> I just got off the phone with Alex and what he found was that the steering box was not on center, it was off by 90 degrees. He
> removed the steering CV joint and lower steering shaft (slip joint) and set the box on center. He then re-installed the CV joint and
> lower steering shaft and aligned the front wheels.
>
> The jack stand moved when he hit it with his leg because the rear suspension in Bill and Betty's coach is not operating properly.
> One side was higher than the other. He instructed them to inflate the bags and bring both sides to the same height and shut off the
> bags.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Mueller
>
> G'day,
>
> I think I know what Alex did re the steering but the 3 leg bit still has me puzzled.
>
> I tried to call him at around 9:00 pm but he had gone to sleep, evidently he follows Ben Franklin's adage of; "early to bed, early
> to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise."
>
> I'm normally up until 00:30 - 01:00 which speaks volumes about my health, wealth, and wisdom! ;-)
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Betty Chimento
>
> Alex said he went to a Steering Session by Dave Lenzi & follows his instructions.
>
> Bill & Betty
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Corrected by Alex Ferrara [message #242775 is a reply to message #242723] |
Sat, 08 March 2014 13:56 |
 |
Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Brian,
Look specifically at Figure 64. After you have looked at what Rob pointed you to, go out and look at the shaft into the steering box. If that flat is not where it belongs at straight ahead, then the steering box is not at center and that only makes all the difference in the World as far as going straight down the road without wandering.
How does this happen??
In instrument talk, it is called a cascade mis-alignment. Something is wrong, and someone that does not completely understand the system tweeks something to make it closer to correct. Unfortunately, he tweeked the wrong thing, so the next guy that has to make it right tweeks something else without running the complete system diagnostic. So, now it is close, but two things are actually wrong.
I have seen this happen in front end alignment. (No Joke) In fact the old VW bugs only had one adjustable tierod. The shop manual said, set the toe-in, and if the steering wheel isn't straight ahead, pop it off and put it back so it is......
In a GMC, this is a disaster in the making. If you pop your horn button out (if you can) and look at the top of the steer columns shaft, there should be a chisel mark at straight ahead. If it isn't there, (mine wasn't even close) then someone disassembled the stuff below and didn't get it right. Between the slip joint and the CV there are a lot of combinations (you old guys that took mechanical drawing, remember all the angle combinations and permutations you could get with just the 45° and 60° triangles?? Same-Same) There are lots of ways this can be assembled, and most of them are wrong. But, When you finally get it right, it will work fine.
Now you need to dial in the rest. If you have an adjustable drag link. Use it to set the relay rod so the the relay level and the idler are both square to the frame. Now, don't readjust anything you have just set.....
Do what ever needs to happen next - toe or straight ahead with the tie rods only.... This Works.....
The longer story is how I took up Dave Linze's afternoon while he told me all this and by the way, I didn't buy anything from him. (I keep telling him that I still own him a good dinner.)
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Corrected by Alex Ferrara [message #242786 is a reply to message #242489] |
Sat, 08 March 2014 16:11 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Also besides all that it the scribe mark on the shaft at the steering wheel is not at high noon, your turn signals will never cancel correctly and you can break the switch if you try to force the lever. Lot's of wrong permutations and only one is correct. It's tough to look at the steering box pinch U joint and get a good read on where the flat is as it does not match the split or bolt. If you have a 100% correct coach parked next to you, you can get a pretty close idea from an A/B comparison.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Corrected by Alex Ferrara [message #242826 is a reply to message #242775] |
Sat, 08 March 2014 19:27 |
Brian Waddell
Messages: 409
Registered: March 2010
Karma: -4
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Senior Member |
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Yea......... well... I have been through thar flat part at sreering shaft....only makes sense ...that is why only particular size bolt fits.....just to be sure you got it correct you can place the slip joint in all possible combinations like I did then drive it...wanders down the road worse in some combo.s the same in others....yea rely arm and lever square or not...yea tried them both ways...little difference....chisel mark at steer wheel...yea... tried that in 4 dif positions then back to noon....no dif... when I gave up last fall the consensus was steering box that I find hard to believe on a 54k doc. mi coach....I hate to do that because to me that is jyst replacing something to see if the problem goes away....no evidence that it is out of spec....I had this coach 12 years and hve never used it mostly because i can not steer it....I replace and rebuilt most everything ...then discovered that I can not use this coach cause I can.t fix the steering ....so far...it has become a bit of a family joke...we call it the POS.....brian 77 ele 455....winnipeg near
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: matt7323tze@gmail.com
> Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2014 13:56:49 -0600
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Steering Corrected by Alex Ferrara
>
>
>
> USAussie wrote on Sat, 08 March 2014 01:54
> > Brian,
> >
> > When the front wheels are heading straight down the road the steering box must be on center or a GMC will not steer properly. See MM X-7525 / Section 9 - Steering System / Page 9-38 PITMAN SHAFT "OVER-CENTER" SECTOR ADJUSTMENT.
> >
> > More information can be found in the documents below:
> >
> > http://www.gmceast.com/technical/Mueller_Steering_Inspection_Guide.pdf
> >
> > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/random-photos/p52883-set-steering-box-highp.html
> >
> > Regards,
> > Rob M.
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Brian Waddell
> >
> > how does a persom knpw that the steering box is off 90 degrees...And do not tell me it is because it doesn't steer properly...brian
> > 77 ele 455
>
> Brian,
>
> Look specifically at Figure 64. After you have looked at what Rob pointed you to, go out and look at the shaft into the steering box. If that flat is not where it belongs at straight ahead, then the steering box is not at center and that only makes all the difference in the World as far as going straight down the road without wandering.
>
> How does this happen??
> In instrument talk, it is called a cascade mis-alignment. Something is wrong, and someone that does not completely understand the system tweeks something to make it closer to correct. Unfortunately, he tweeked the wrong thing, so the next guy that has to make it right tweeks something else without running the complete system diagnostic. So, now it is close, but two things are actually wrong.
>
> I have seen this happen in front end alignment. (No Joke) In fact the old VW bugs only had one adjustable tierod. The shop manual said, set the toe-in, and if the steering wheel isn't straight ahead, pop it off and put it back so it is......
>
> In a GMC, this is a disaster in the making. If you pop your horn button out (if you can) and look at the top of the steer columns shaft, there should be a chisel mark at straight ahead. If it isn't there, (mine wasn't even close) then someone disassembled the stuff below and didn't get it right. Between the slip joint and the CV there are a lot of combinations (you old guys that took mechanical drawing, remember all the angle combinations and permutations you could get with just the 45° and 60° triangles?? Same-Same) There are lots of ways this can be assembled, and most of them are wrong. But, When you finally get it right, it will work fine.
>
> Now you need to dial in the rest. If you have an adjustable drag link. Use it to set the relay rod so the the relay level and the idler are both square to the frame. Now, don't readjust anything you have just set.....
>
> Do what ever needs to happen next - toe or straight ahead with the tie rods only.... This Works.....
>
> The longer story is how I took up Dave Linze's afternoon while he told me all this and by the way, I didn't buy anything from him. (I keep telling him that I still own him a good dinner.)
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCES Going to MontgomeryThe majestic, once snow covered glacier Chaumière is in for the winter.
> '73 Glacier 23 With 4 Rear Brakes that pull as they should
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Corrected by Alex Ferrara [message #242831 is a reply to message #242489] |
Sat, 08 March 2014 21:31 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Assuming you have shaken down the front end steering wheel to front wheels and have no slop? No delay on box from input to output? What are your allignment number specs? All greased? My box had a slight wobble on the input shaft and everything else was tight or replaced. I put in a variable ratio box and made sure it was on center. Drives straight hands off. 4 deg caster and no camber or toe.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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I don't know him but I have heard that he is a VERY helpful and knowledgeable guy. He helped a Phoenix couple that I was acquainted with that had the same problems on their way to Florida.