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| [GMCnet] '78 Royale Starting Issue Revisited [message #241517] |
Wed, 26 February 2014 14:36  |
Gary Carlton
Messages: 59
Registered: February 2014
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Well, I made it home just in time for a snowstorm that dumped a foot of snow on us. Here is a re-cap of my issue:
On our maiden trip after picking up my coach in LA and driving 1500 miles home, an issue of on turning the key, the starter would not engage (no click, nothing). I adjusted the starting module as far down the column as I could but that did not help.
I resorted to leaving the module loose and moving it away from the steering wheel by hand to engage the starter which it would do so without fail. This tells me neither the neutral switch nor the battery charge nor the starter solenoid is the issue. Stopping the engine meant moving the module by hand to the "Off" position.
Just in case, I picked up a new starting module in Long Beach, installed it and it did no good. I drove the rest of the way home utilizing the kludge fix indicated above.
Once home, I did more investigating and it seemed that the rod needed another 1/8" of pull to engage the starter on its own with the module in the 'all the way down' position . I pulled apart the steering wheel to see if there is any way to adjust the rod to get that and found no manner to do so. So I took one of the starter modules and elongated the mounting hole by an eighth and that did no good either. In the cyclical process of getting the module uninstalled, elongating the holes, reinstalling and testing things, I ended up shorting one of the contacts on the "Start" segment of the module (purple, red, pink in the white housing) and now I am pretty sure I have blown a fuse somewhere as I cannot get it to start/engage at all. I feel like a complete idiot and a hard way to begin my time with the coach.
gary
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'78 Royale, "Road Grub"
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| Re: [GMCnet] '78 Royale Starting Issue Revisited [message #241531 is a reply to message #241517] |
Wed, 26 February 2014 16:31  |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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this is a better answer
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/push-button-start-switch/p50262-slide66.html
erf
On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 12:36 PM, <arcsine@comcast.net> wrote:
> Well, I made it home just in time for a snowstorm that dumped a foot of
> snow on us. Here is a re-cap of my issue:
> On our maiden trip after picking up my coach in LA and driving 1500 miles
> home, an issue of on turning the key, the starter would not engage (no
> click, nothing). I adjusted the starting module as far down the column as I
> could but that did not help.
> I resorted to leaving the module loose and moving it away from the
> steering wheel by hand to engage the starter which it would do so without
> fail. This tells me neither the neutral switch nor the battery charge nor
> the starter solenoid is the issue. Stopping the engine meant moving the
> module by hand to the "Off" position.
> Just in case, I picked up a new starting module in Long Beach, installed
> it and it did no good. I drove the rest of the way home utilizing the
> kludge fix indicated above.
> Once home, I did more investigating and it seemed that the rod needed
> another 1/8" of pull to engage the starter on its own with the module in
> the 'all the way down' position . I pulled apart the steering wheel to see
> if there is any way to adjust the rod to get that and found no manner to do
> so. So I took one of the starter modules and elongated the mounting hole by
> an eighth and that did no good either. In the cyclical process of getting
> the module uninstalled, elongating the holes, reinstalling and testing
> things, I ended up shorting one of the contacts on the "Start" segment of
> the module (purple, red, pink in the white housing) and now I am pretty
> sure I have blown a fuse somewhere as I cannot get it to start/engage at
> all. I feel like a complete idiot and a hard way to begin my time with the
> coach.
> gary
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
"Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] '78 Royale Starting Issue Revisited [message #241534 is a reply to message #241531] |
Wed, 26 February 2014 16:37 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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or here
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6460/start_switch_talk.pdf
erf
On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 2:31 PM, gene Fisher <mr.erfisher@gmail.com> wrote:
> this is a better answer
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/push-button-start-switch/p50262-slide66.html
>
> erf
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 12:36 PM, <arcsine@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Well, I made it home just in time for a snowstorm that dumped a foot of
>> snow on us. Here is a re-cap of my issue:
>> On our maiden trip after picking up my coach in LA and driving 1500 miles
>> home, an issue of on turning the key, the starter would not engage (no
>> click, nothing). I adjusted the starting module as far down the column as I
>> could but that did not help.
>> I resorted to leaving the module loose and moving it away from the
>> steering wheel by hand to engage the starter which it would do so without
>> fail. This tells me neither the neutral switch nor the battery charge nor
>> the starter solenoid is the issue. Stopping the engine meant moving the
>> module by hand to the "Off" position.
>> Just in case, I picked up a new starting module in Long Beach, installed
>> it and it did no good. I drove the rest of the way home utilizing the
>> kludge fix indicated above.
>> Once home, I did more investigating and it seemed that the rod needed
>> another 1/8" of pull to engage the starter on its own with the module in
>> the 'all the way down' position . I pulled apart the steering wheel to see
>> if there is any way to adjust the rod to get that and found no manner to do
>> so. So I took one of the starter modules and elongated the mounting hole by
>> an eighth and that did no good either. In the cyclical process of getting
>> the module uninstalled, elongating the holes, reinstalling and testing
>> things, I ended up shorting one of the contacts on the "Start" segment of
>> the module (purple, red, pink in the white housing) and now I am pretty
>> sure I have blown a fuse somewhere as I cannot get it to start/engage at
>> all. I feel like a complete idiot and a hard way to begin my time with the
>> coach.
>> gary
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> "Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> -------
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
> Alternator Protection Cable
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
"Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] '78 Royale Starting Issue Revisited [message #241578 is a reply to message #241517] |
Wed, 26 February 2014 19:29 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| Gary Carlton wrote on Wed, 26 February 2014 15:36 |
Well, I made it home just in time for a snowstorm that dumped a foot of snow on us. Here is a re-cap of my issue:
On our maiden trip after picking up my coach in LA and driving 1500 miles home, an issue of on turning the key, the starter would not engage (no click, nothing). I adjusted the starting module as far down the column as I could but that did not help.
I resorted to leaving the module loose and moving it away from the steering wheel by hand to engage the starter which it would do so without fail. This tells me neither the neutral switch nor the battery charge nor the starter solenoid is the issue. Stopping the engine meant moving the module by hand to the "Off" position.
Just in case, I picked up a new starting module in Long Beach, installed it and it did no good. I drove the rest of the way home utilizing the kludge fix indicated above.
Once home, I did more investigating and it seemed that the rod needed another 1/8" of pull to engage the starter on its own with the module in the 'all the way down' position . I pulled apart the steering wheel to see if there is any way to adjust the rod to get that and found no manner to do so. So I took one of the starter modules and elongated the mounting hole by an eighth and that did no good either. In the cyclical process of getting the module uninstalled, elongating the holes, reinstalling and testing things, I ended up shorting one of the contacts on the "Start" segment of the module (purple, red, pink in the white housing) and now I am pretty sure I have blown a fuse somewhere as I cannot get it to start/engage at all. I feel like a complete idiot and a hard way to begin my time with the coach.
gary
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Gary,
This all sounds distressingly familiar. My bet is that you have a broken took on the switch rack.
You have two choices:
A - Jury rig the poor thing and put up with it forever.
B - Buy and install a new rack and pinion (has to be both) from the kit off the HELP pin at the auto parts store. If you go to an Auto Zone, they will lend you the tools needed to dig down the column and replace the ignition switch rack and pinion.
Unfortunately, I can't find the e-mail that Chuck Boyd sent when I had to do this job, but I will keep looking.
If you have never had the steering wheel off, it will take you about an hour and an half to complete the job.
There are other parts in there that brake too. They are all on adjacent pins on the rack and were used for so many years of GM (and Jeep) products that they will not disappear for at least two more decades.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] '78 Royale Starting Issue Revisited [message #241589 is a reply to message #241578] |
Wed, 26 February 2014 20:06 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Gary,
I agree with Matt. Here are detailed column instructions:
http://www.gmceast.com/technical/Sowers_Steering_Column_Upgrade_Repair.pdf
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 8:29 PM, Matt Colie wrote:
>
>
> Gary Carlton wrote on Wed, 26 February 2014 15:36
> > Well, I made it home just in time for a snowstorm that dumped a foot of
> snow on us. Here is a re-cap of my issue:
> > On our maiden trip after picking up my coach in LA and driving 1500
> miles home, an issue of on turning the key, the starter would not engage
> (no click, nothing). I adjusted the starting module as far down the column
> as I could but that did not help.
> > I resorted to leaving the module loose and moving it away from the
> steering wheel by hand to engage the starter which it would do so without
> fail. This tells me neither the neutral switch nor the battery charge nor
> the starter solenoid is the issue. Stopping the engine meant moving the
> module by hand to the "Off" position.
> > Just in case, I picked up a new starting module in Long Beach, installed
> it and it did no good. I drove the rest of the way home utilizing the
> kludge fix indicated above.
> > Once home, I did more investigating and it seemed that the rod needed
> another 1/8" of pull to engage the starter on its own with the module in
> the 'all the way down' position . I pulled apart the steering wheel to
> see if there is any way to adjust the rod to get that and found no manner
> to do so. So I took one of the starter modules and elongated the mounting
> hole by an eighth and that did no good either. In the cyclical process of
> getting the module uninstalled, elongating the holes, reinstalling and
> testing things, I ended up shorting one of the contacts on the "Start"
> segment of the module (purple, red, pink in the white housing) and now I
> am pretty sure I have blown a fuse somewhere as I cannot get it to start/
> engage at all. I feel like a complete idiot and a hard way to begin my
> time with the coach.
> > gary
>
> Gary,
>
> This all sounds distressingly familiar. My bet is that you have a broken
> took on the switch rack.
> You have two choices:
> A - Jury rig the poor thing and put up with it forever.
> B - Buy and install a new rack and pinion (has to be both) from the kit
> off the HELP pin at the auto parts store. If you go to an Auto Zone,
> they will lend you the tools needed to dig down the column and replace the
> ignition switch rack and pinion.
>
> Unfortunately, I can't find the e-mail that Chuck Boyd sent when I had to
> do this job, but I will keep looking.
>
> If you have never had the steering wheel off, it will take you about an
> hour and an half to complete the job.
>
> There are other parts in there that brake too. They are all on adjacent
> pins on the rack and were used for so many years of GM (and Jeep) products
> that they will not disappear for at least two more decades.
>
> Matt
>
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GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] '78 Royale Starting Issue Revisited [message #242515 is a reply to message #241517] |
Thu, 06 March 2014 15:27 |
Gary Carlton
Messages: 59
Registered: February 2014
Karma: 0
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Member |
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I have installed an ARC 8000 system in my Royale to address the starting issue and everything works as expected. The low-voltage switch panel in behind the sun visor and the relay/fuse panel is in the glove box. I included a battery isolation switch to kill all power to the ignition system when parked or in storage. I configured the panel such that the Ignition ON will provide power to tail lights, dash lights, windshield wiper, blower, and backup camera (labeled 'computer). Turning the ignition OFF turns off all these circuits en mass. The radio and air bags (labeled 'off road") operate if the battery switch is turned ON and are independent of the ignition system.
The biggest issue was culling through the wiring diagrams and coming up with a plan of where in insert the ARC8000 into the different circuits. I ended up bypassing the neutral safety switch and running wires directly to the coil and radio. Everything else connects to wires removed from the stock fuse panel.
The key still unlocks the steering column but it has no other functions anymore. It still would be possible for thieves to break that and power the system if they have the red switch key. But if I'm going to store it, I'll just pull the ignition or starter fuse and feel comfortable with that.
Pictures can be found here: http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/projects/p53462-arc8000-relay-and-battery-switch-installation.html
Thanks much to all that offered suggestions and advice. As this happened on my maiden voyage home, that assistance was invaluable in helping getting me home.
gary
'78 Royale, "Road Grub"
Bellingham, WA
[Updated on: Thu, 06 March 2014 15:32] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] '78 Royale Starting Issue Revisited [message #242543 is a reply to message #241517] |
Thu, 06 March 2014 18:05 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Gary,
If you back up the thread a short ways, you will see where I suggested that you had broken a tooth off the rack that pulls the switch. Your trick of moving the switch confirms that diagnosis. This is an afternoon repair and the parts are available off the HELP rack pins ans you can borrow the special tool to release the turn signal switch from the loaner tools at Auto Zone. I will try to remember to look up Chuck Boyd's nice set of insructions and send them to you.
Matt - at square dance work shop
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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