Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Genset replacement for boondocking (was Onan bumping/knocking sound?)
| [GMCnet] Genset replacement for boondocking (was Onan bumping/knocking sound?) [message #240316] |
Tue, 18 February 2014 01:58  |
John Olson
Messages: 96
Registered: August 2013
Karma: 0
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Member |
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Ken -
I'd only scrap the Onan as an absolute last resort. Meter says 92 hrs. May
decide to put in the relatively minor effort to tune the Onan and keep it.
By mid Feb the GMC will be in Sheridan IL (at Dave Marchiando's for a power
drive install). Dave has no knowledge of this but has first dibs. You're
now #1 alternate.
The notion of removing it is developing faster than my considerations for
replacement. Our field tests and my study of options are still ongoing.
*Leading candidates for replacements are one or two Kipor / Honda 2kw or
one 3kw.* Again, I don't really know what I'm saying on the subject yet.
We're doing a fulltiming work touring thing starting end of April, so I'm
willing to put more effort and $ toward solutions than a weekender rig. Our
driving criteria is:
1 - Recharging battery bank during cloudy days or heavy electrical usage
needs. Current bank is 4 golf carts totaling 416ah. May double the golfs
(assuming some onan space is available) or even replace with LiPO4. Need
more field testing of our usage to know which. Ignoring for a second the
breathtaking buy-in price, LiPO4 is sexy to me for its fast charging to
full, safely use 80% capacity, higher total charge cycles.
2 - Running a 3d rendering computer workstation PC. My current PC, while 8
cores are pegged in processing a high-rez rendering scene, pulls about 28
amps x 1 to 12 hrs / day. Only need to do this a few days per month though.
This one is iffy to run on batteries..and not 416ah. Maybe if solar is
helping, gen set picks up the difference. CAD laptop is also in this mix,
but it sips energy compared to the required PC rocket.
3 - Occasionally genset running AC only for the 4 hottest hours of the day.
This one is iffy too. 2 and 3 together probably means plugins
realistically. Or 800ah+ batt bank and Multiplus system.
Albeit a familiar tale, we aspire to eliminate most location restrictions.
Needing hookups during work projects is our current issue.
John Olson
76 Edgemont (I want my BLM)
Chicago, IL (currently in AZ)
On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 11:49 PM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> John Olson wrote on Mon, 17 February 2014 23:11
> > Thanks Bob. You may be right about the thumping being interference with
> gen
> > door. Last run, I opened the door to see the onan front panel vibrating
> > baaadly. Shut it down and thats when I found the broken choke wedged
> > against the outer onan door.
> >
> > I did find a Sisson manufacturing replacement NOS choke after a quick
> look
> > on ebay but had no idea they were made of gold ($225...at least they give
> > free shipping!).
> >
> >
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/153-0233-ONAN-SISSON-CHOKE-12-volt-PIERCE-GOVERNOR-CO-New-Old-Stock-/141184724573?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20df43ee5 d
> >
> > Anyone want a mostly running Onan? It's not about the $225...I've been
> > considering alternatives for power generation and that Onan space for a
> bit
> > now.
> >
> >
> > John Olson
> > 76 Edgemont
> > Chicago, IL (currently in Lake Pleasant ST Park AZ)
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 9:08 PM, Bob de Kruyff <NEXT2POOL@aol.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your choke is definitely toast. You can still find them on Ebay and I
> > > recently saw 2 new ones for sale. I just sold my 1 yr old choke. As
> far as
> > > leaks, make sure you also check the governor housing bolts. mine were
> > > finger tight.
> > > --
> > > Bob de Kruyff
> > > 78 Eleganza
> > > Chandler, AZ
>
>
> John, Do not scrap that Onan.
> I could use some parts off of it.
> Are you giving it away or trying to sell it?
>
> I'll Gladly travel to Chicago but, not Arizona, I'll even help you remove
> it. I have an engine hoist that we could use to snatch it out of there.
>
> What are you thinking of replacing it with?
>
>
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
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John Olson
76 Edgemonte
Fulltime traveler
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| Re: [GMCnet] Genset replacement for boondocking (was Onanbumping/knocking sound?) [message #240317 is a reply to message #240316] |
Tue, 18 February 2014 02:32  |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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John,
If you are going to be full timing I suggest you SERIOUSLY consider replacing a 6Kw Onan with the small Honda units. If you do that
the first time you are camping at Club Wal-Mart in July in Arizona and it's 100° F outside you're NOT going to be a Happy Camper
with NO roof A/C.
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: John Olson
Ken -
I'd only scrap the Onan as an absolute last resort. Meter says 92 hrs. May
decide to put in the relatively minor effort to tune the Onan and keep it.
By mid Feb the GMC will be in Sheridan IL (at Dave Marchiando's for a power
drive install). Dave has no knowledge of this but has first dibs. You're
now #1 alternate.
The notion of removing it is developing faster than my considerations for
replacement. Our field tests and my study of options are still ongoing.
*Leading candidates for replacements are one or two Kipor / Honda 2kw or
one 3kw.* Again, I don't really know what I'm saying on the subject yet.
We're doing a fulltiming work touring thing starting end of April, so I'm
willing to put more effort and $ toward solutions than a weekender rig. Our
driving criteria is:
1 - Recharging battery bank during cloudy days or heavy electrical usage
needs. Current bank is 4 golf carts totaling 416ah. May double the golfs
(assuming some onan space is available) or even replace with LiPO4. Need
more field testing of our usage to know which. Ignoring for a second the
breathtaking buy-in price, LiPO4 is sexy to me for its fast charging to
full, safely use 80% capacity, higher total charge cycles.
2 - Running a 3d rendering computer workstation PC. My current PC, while 8
cores are pegged in processing a high-rez rendering scene, pulls about 28
amps x 1 to 12 hrs / day. Only need to do this a few days per month though.
This one is iffy to run on batteries..and not 416ah. Maybe if solar is
helping, gen set picks up the difference. CAD laptop is also in this mix,
but it sips energy compared to the required PC rocket.
3 - Occasionally genset running AC only for the 4 hottest hours of the day.
This one is iffy too. 2 and 3 together probably means plugins
realistically. Or 800ah+ batt bank and Multiplus system.
Albeit a familiar tale, we aspire to eliminate most location restrictions.
Needing hookups during work projects is our current issue.
John Olson
76 Edgemont (I want my BLM)
Chicago, IL (currently in AZ)
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Genset replacement for boondocking (was Onanbumping/knocking sound?) [message #240318 is a reply to message #240317] |
Tue, 18 February 2014 02:55 |
John Olson
Messages: 96
Registered: August 2013
Karma: 0
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Member |
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Rob - You are correct. If, and thats just an IF currently, we eliminate the
Onan, it will be replaced with another gen set.
*Question:* Pardon my ignorance, but since the Onan compartment was
designed to run the gen with door closed, can the same be done safely with
a Kipor/Honda 2kw?
Sorry for my lack of preparedness on this subject. Broaching this topic was
hastened by the minor Onan troubles thread. So my full homework has not
been done, including searching the archives before posting as I've seen
this topic well covered in most respects.
Dan Gregg helped me much at Branson by showing me his GMC specific mods for
boondocking bliss. A great head start on the transformation.
Oh, and while life throws many curves, us being in an RV in AZ low country
in July would only occur during a cruel twist of fate. No offense intended
to the hearty folk who take that on. A Minnesota-raised Norwegian has no
business being in that kind of heat.
John Olson
76 Edgemont
Chicago, IL (ya, you betcha)
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 1:32 AM, Robert Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> John,
>
> If you are going to be full timing I suggest you SERIOUSLY consider
> replacing a 6Kw Onan with the small Honda units. If you do that
> the first time you are camping at Club Wal-Mart in July in Arizona and
> it's 100° F outside you're NOT going to be a Happy Camper
> with NO roof A/C.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Olson
>
> Ken -
>
> I'd only scrap the Onan as an absolute last resort. Meter says 92 hrs. May
> decide to put in the relatively minor effort to tune the Onan and keep it.
>
> By mid Feb the GMC will be in Sheridan IL (at Dave Marchiando's for a power
> drive install). Dave has no knowledge of this but has first dibs. You're
> now #1 alternate.
>
> The notion of removing it is developing faster than my considerations for
> replacement. Our field tests and my study of options are still ongoing.
>
> *Leading candidates for replacements are one or two Kipor / Honda 2kw or
> one 3kw.* Again, I don't really know what I'm saying on the subject yet.
>
> We're doing a fulltiming work touring thing starting end of April, so I'm
> willing to put more effort and $ toward solutions than a weekender rig. Our
> driving criteria is:
>
> 1 - Recharging battery bank during cloudy days or heavy electrical usage
> needs. Current bank is 4 golf carts totaling 416ah. May double the golfs
> (assuming some onan space is available) or even replace with LiPO4. Need
> more field testing of our usage to know which. Ignoring for a second the
> breathtaking buy-in price, LiPO4 is sexy to me for its fast charging to
> full, safely use 80% capacity, higher total charge cycles.
>
> 2 - Running a 3d rendering computer workstation PC. My current PC, while 8
> cores are pegged in processing a high-rez rendering scene, pulls about 28
> amps x 1 to 12 hrs / day. Only need to do this a few days per month though.
> This one is iffy to run on batteries..and not 416ah. Maybe if solar is
> helping, gen set picks up the difference. CAD laptop is also in this mix,
> but it sips energy compared to the required PC rocket.
>
> 3 - Occasionally genset running AC only for the 4 hottest hours of the day.
> This one is iffy too. 2 and 3 together probably means plugins
> realistically. Or 800ah+ batt bank and Multiplus system.
>
> Albeit a familiar tale, we aspire to eliminate most location restrictions.
> Needing hookups during work projects is our current issue.
>
>
> John Olson
> 76 Edgemont (I want my BLM)
> Chicago, IL (currently in AZ)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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John Olson
76 Edgemonte
Fulltime traveler
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| Re: [GMCnet] Genset replacement for boondocking (was Onan bumping/knocking sound?) [message #240321 is a reply to message #240316] |
Tue, 18 February 2014 04:14 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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John,
On that noise two things come to mind. As stated before the engine mounts have sank and the starter bracket is hitting the frame. If you think this is the issue, pull out the generator and run it that way. If the sound goes away this a pretty good chance that is the issue. That is a one hour job to replace them. I did mine at a work rally at Blaine Merrel's place a few years back.
Another is the flywheel has cracked where it mounts to the crankshaft. Mine was cracked so I removed and welded it. I now have a replacement that I have yet to install. I mention this in case you want to remove the front covers and check it. If it is indeed loose it could eventually cause some real damage to the crank. Without hearing the noise this obviously is just a guess.
When you get back in the area, maybe we can take an afternoon or day and see what we can do to fix what you have in place. I'll get my shot record updated and head over to Illinois for the day. I only worked there for about 30 years off and on, so I should be able to find where ever you are pretty easily.
I seldom use my generator but it sure is necessary occasionally when it gets too hot to live without AC.
Let me know when you are back in the area and I'll head up your way for a day.
Before going to another generator, if this one is running good, I would be first looking at reducing the load as much as possible (Computers, LED lighting, tinted windows, insulation, etc).
I think I know where you are staying in Quartzsite. I ran over there on one of my exploring runs of the area when I was there a couple of years ago. I think you are east of town and south of I-10. I hope to go back there next January.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Genset replacement for boondocking (was Onanbumping/knocking sound?) [message #240332 is a reply to message #240318] |
Tue, 18 February 2014 07:08 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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I find my Junkerac doesn't mid heat very much. It is installed with a fan in the door which blows air into the compartment. If I was WalMarting in Auigust in Houston, f'rinstance, I'd do as we do with the remote trucks, place a box fan to blow under the coach and force the exhausted hot air away from the door intake. Recycling the hot was the only time we had trouble with them.
Incidentally, the choke on the Generac looks very similar to the Onan, and it's similar in action. If you coulsd find one, you should be able to cobble up a mount for it. Generac Impact 36 RV is the model.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
braselton ga
________________________________
From: John Olson <johnolsondesign@gmail.com>
To: "gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org" <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 3:55 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Genset replacement for boondocking (was Onanbumping/knocking sound?)
Rob - You are correct. If, and thats just an IF currently, we eliminate the
Onan, it will be replaced with another gen set.
*Question:* Pardon my ignorance, but since the Onan compartment was
designed to run the gen with door closed, can the same be done safely with
a Kipor/Honda 2kw?
Sorry for my lack of preparedness on this subject. Broaching this topic was
hastened by the minor Onan troubles thread. So my full homework has not
been done, including searching the archives before posting as I've seen
this topic well covered in most respects.
Dan Gregg helped me much at Branson by showing me his GMC specific mods for
boondocking bliss. A great head start on the transformation.
Oh, and while life throws many curves, us being in an RV in AZ low country
in July would only occur during a cruel twist of fate. No offense intended
to the hearty folk who take that on. A Minnesota-raised Norwegian has no
business being in that kind of heat.
John Olson
76 Edgemont
Chicago, IL (ya, you betcha)
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 1:32 AM, Robert Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> John,
>
> If you are going to be full timing I suggest you SERIOUSLY consider
> replacing a 6Kw Onan with the small Honda units. If you do that
> the first time you are camping at Club Wal-Mart in July in Arizona and
> it's 100° F outside you're NOT going to be a Happy Camper
> with NO roof A/C.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Olson
>
> Ken -
>
> I'd only scrap the Onan as an absolute last resort. Meter says 92 hrs. May
> decide to put in the relatively minor effort to tune the Onan and keep it.
>
> By mid Feb the GMC will be in Sheridan IL (at Dave Marchiando's for a power
> drive install). Dave has no knowledge of this but has first dibs. You're
> now #1 alternate.
>
> The notion of removing it is developing faster than my considerations for
> replacement. Our field tests and my study of options are still ongoing.
>
> *Leading candidates for replacements are one or two Kipor / Honda 2kw or
> one 3kw.* Again, I don't really know what I'm saying on the subject yet.
>
> We're doing a fulltiming work touring thing starting end of April, so I'm
> willing to put more effort and $ toward solutions than a weekender rig. Our
> driving criteria is:
_______________________________________________
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Genset replacement for boondocking (was Onanbumping/knocking sound?) [message #240335 is a reply to message #240332] |
Tue, 18 February 2014 07:33 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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What air conditioner can be successfully started by the Honda 2 kw inverter genset? Startup load would be very taxing. My 3.5 kw Kipor will start one 13,500 Dometic. Unwilling to try two. It will not fit in the 26' genset compartment.
If you butcher two Honda 2 kw's, you may get some success. Jim Bounds is working this way with some results.
Better to chase the Honda ev series. Fit and work within the GMC environment.
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: [GMCnet] Genset replacement for boondocking (was Onanbumping/knocking sound?) [message #240343 is a reply to message #240335] |
Tue, 18 February 2014 09:25 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
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| tphipps wrote on Tue, 18 February 2014 06:33 |
What air conditioner can be successfully started by the Honda 2 kw inverter genset? Startup load would be very taxing. My 3.5 kw Kipor will start one 13,500 Dometic. Unwilling to try two. It will not fit in the 26' genset compartment.
If you butcher two Honda 2 kw's, you may get some success. Jim Bounds is working this way with some results.
Better to chase the Honda ev series. Fit and work within the GMC environment.
Tom, MS II
|
My Kipor 2K won't start an AC unit but when I hook 2 in parallel, the AC will start painlessly. I'm guessing that 3K is about what you would need to get the AC to start--at least for invertor types since they have no tolerance for a momentary overload.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Genset replacement for boondocking (was Onan bumping/knocking sound?) [message #240351 is a reply to message #240316] |
Tue, 18 February 2014 10:22 |
Craig Lechowicz
Messages: 541
Registered: October 2006
Location: Waterford, MI
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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If you are looking at momentary start up loads, (such as an a/c unit) I think it takes way more than 15 amps to trip a 15 amp circuit breaker. But, the small generators can't handle them. The other thing is that most generators are rated at peak. My 2,000 watt Yamaha for instance, is only rated 1,600 watts running, and I think their version of peak is less time than it takes to start up a motor.
Craig Lechowicz
'77 Kingsley, Waterford, MI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Genset replacement for boondocking (was Onan bumping/knocking sound?) [message #240360 is a reply to message #240351] |
Tue, 18 February 2014 10:43 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
|
Senior Member |
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Peak handling capacity is as someone pointed out pretty much not there on inverter systems, because the devices making the AC have to be sized for the peak - runs the cost up. All the 'volts per hertz" (fixed RPM) gensets and the thing I have from Generac have peak capacity which is represented by the energy stored up in the spinning engine and alternator. The frequency will sag, but the machine starts and the load drops quickly enough that it comes right back. The amount of sag is pretty much dependant on the response time of the engine governor and its throttle response. Setting it, whether it's an electronic governor (big gensets) or a mechanical one (Onan, et al) becomes an exercise in finding the happy medium between tooo much droop and having the set 'hunt' when the load is fixed. My experience with the Onans is that the hunting tends to occur more frequently at light loads but tha's purely observation of a few of them.
--johnny
________________________________
From: Craig Lechowicz <craig.lechowicz@sbcglobal.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Genset replacement for boondocking (was Onan bumping/knocking sound?)
If you are looking at momentary start up loads, (such as an a/c unit) I think it takes way more than 15 amps to trip a 15 amp circuit breaker. But, the small generators can't handle them. The other thing is that most generators are rated at peak. My 2,000 watt Yamaha for instance, is only rated 1,600 watts running, and I think their version of peak is less time than it takes to start up a motor.
--
Craig Lechowicz
'77 Kingsley, Waterford, MI
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
|
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| Re: [GMCnet] Genset replacement for boondocking (was Onanbumping/knocking sound?) [message #240379 is a reply to message #240358] |
Tue, 18 February 2014 15:12 |
|
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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G'day,
My email should be titled; "Why I love my 6Kw Onan."
After Emery helped me R&R the mounts and get it running right I was able to run all the equipment below AT THE SAME TIME:
1) Front roof A/C
2) Rear roof A/C
3) Water Heater
4) Professional Dynamics Convertor
5) Microwave
Having said that I hedged my bets and bought a used Honda EV-6010 just in case the Onan dies. ;-)
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Glenn Giere
I've missed most of this post so don't know all the details but this may be a consideration. My coach came with an Onan microlite
2800. Fits nicely in the compartment, runs one AC and the microwave simultaneously, reasonably quiet, hooks into the coach fuel
tanks, remote start.
Glenn
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Genset replacement for boondocking (was Onan bumping/knocking sound?) [message #240385 is a reply to message #240316] |
Tue, 18 February 2014 16:26 |
John Olson
Messages: 96
Registered: August 2013
Karma: 0
|
Member |
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Good post Rob. My question about possibly replacing the Onan was premature
and ill-formed. I blame the box wine.
Ours seemed to be tuned ok even in spite of checked mounts, dirty oil,
oil weeping, broken off choke magnet, and probably several loose /
missing screws, questionable plugs, etc.
Most of the above wasn't surprising, except for the choke magnet. I'll vac
clean it, address the above maintenance and let it ride.
John
On Tuesday, February 18, 2014, Robert Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>
wrote:
> G'day,
>
> My email should be titled; "Why I love my 6Kw Onan."
>
> After Emery helped me R&R the mounts and get it running right I was able
> to run all the equipment below AT THE SAME TIME:
>
> 1) Front roof A/C
> 2) Rear roof A/C
> 3) Water Heater
> 4) Professional Dynamics Convertor
> 5) Microwave
>
> Having said that I hedged my bets and bought a used Honda EV-6010 just in
> case the Onan dies. ;-)
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org <javascript:;> [mailto:
> gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Glenn Giere
>
> I've missed most of this post so don't know all the details but this may
> be a consideration. My coach came with an Onan microlite
> 2800. Fits nicely in the compartment, runs one AC and the microwave
> simultaneously, reasonably quiet, hooks into the coach fuel
> tanks, remote start.
>
> Glenn
>
> _______________________________________________
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John Olson
Cell | 773.315.9220
Skype | johnolsondesign
http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnolsondesign
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John Olson
76 Edgemonte
Fulltime traveler
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