Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » GMC Charging system checkout
| GMC Charging system checkout [message #234775] |
Wed, 01 January 2014 22:14  |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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I finally got the flow chart uploaded.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/15/GMC_charging_system_checkout.pdf
There are no glitzy colors, graphics, etc. So almost anyone should be able to print it put on almost any type of printer as needed.
I tried to address the alternator charging system as shipped by GM. Non-GM owner installed options (good or bad) were not addressed.
I did not mention the APC as it should have no bearing on the flow charts, meter readings. Also the APC has a very low failure rate. (It is an ingenious device only one diode and a wire with a couple of connectors.)
I tried to keep this chart as simple as possible remembering that some people are intimidated just by us asking them to use a voltmeter for the first time.
I figure this is a starting place so we do not have to keep typing the same directions over and over again as each new help request comes along. Just point them to the chart.
After someone finds a problem area using the chart we can zoom in and address that specific area with them in more detail.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
[Updated on: Fri, 03 January 2014 23:48] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC Charging system checkout [message #234781 is a reply to message #234780] |
Wed, 01 January 2014 23:36  |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Wed, 01 January 2014 23:20 |
Ken,
You know maybe we should put together a consensus response for other topics that keep coming up over and over and over.
For example what kind of - - - - should I buy?
- - - - =
Tires
Oil
Grease
Transmission fluid
Anti-Freeze
And so on.
Regards,
Rob M.
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Too controversial
Tires - Kuhmo KL78
Oil - Rotella 15W40
Grease - Valvoline SynnPower
Trans fluid - Anything Dexron, synthetic would be nice if you have Rob's Credit card
Antifreeze - Anything except Dexcool
Oil Filter - Wix ???
Computers - Anything but Apple
Cell phone companies - Verizon
Now see how many arguments you get out of those recommendations.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: GMC Charging system checkout [message #234798 is a reply to message #234775] |
Thu, 02 January 2014 09:08 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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For first time VOM users select the DC range. If not an automatic range selecting meter, selection will most likely be the 20V DC range to get the decimal to show tenths at least. Some meters have symbols instead of alpha letters so then you want ____ and --- representing DC or pulsed DC Don't select the squiggly~ for AC for this test. Be sure the meter us not on Ohms to measure Volts as this may blow meter fuse or damage it. Lastly when working on batteries disconnect negative first and reconnect negative last. Thanks Ken, this should field a lot of common problems. Most of you know all of the above and a lot more, but some are first time testers.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: GMC Charging system checkout [message #234882 is a reply to message #234827] |
Thu, 02 January 2014 22:09 |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013
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And the reason for disconnecting the negative first is that your wrench can touch ground without sparks or welding itself to the terminal and whatever it touched. After the negative is disconnected, there is no potential between the vehicle parts/surfaces and the positive terminal. If you have one of those funky positive ground vehicles, discon & recon the positive first. If there is a large current flowing and you need to disconnect the battery, go to the other end of the ground cable if you can and unbolt that from the engine or frame. If that is impossible, lay a damp rag over the top of the battery, loosen the clamp on the negative terminal, and without having your face in direct view of the battery, remove the terminal quickly.
Excellent flow chart Ken!
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
[Updated on: Thu, 02 January 2014 22:10] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC Charging system checkout [message #234916 is a reply to message #234882] |
Fri, 03 January 2014 09:12 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
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All of that I agree with but a feature I try and add whenever possible is a marine sealed on/off battery switch. I look at it as a safety issue, if there is a problem, shorted wire trying to melt down, electrical ignited fire, etc., if you can have the presence of mind to pull open the pass. front hood and shut off the battery, you will go a long way to save your coach. It's hard to find 2 gauge molded battery cables with molded post style ends, we make them. Larger cables will carry more current and have less drop. Small things like this are important. Do not use those "emergency" bolt on post connectors-- they are a problem waiting to happen.
Could not find the rest of the thread on this so I'm not sure what you are checking out in your charging system but these are 2 issues I try to identify and solve.
Jim Bounds
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________________________________
From: Terry <mrbullitt@verizon.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thursday, January 2, 2014 11:09 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] GMC Charging system checkout
And the reason for disconnecting the negative first is that your wrench can touch ground without sparks or welding itself to the terminal and whatever it touched. After the negative is disconnected, there is no potential between the vehicle parts/surfaces and the positive terminal. If you have one of those funky positive ground vehicles, discon & recon the positive first. If there is a large current flowing and you need to disconnect the battery, go to the other end of the ground cable if you can and unbolt that from the engine or frame. If that is impossible, lay a damp rag over the top of the battery, loosen the clamp on the negative terminal, and without having your face in direct view of the battery, remove the terminal quickly.
--
Terry Kelpien
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC Charging system checkout [message #234920 is a reply to message #234916] |
Fri, 03 January 2014 09:55 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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| Jim Bounds wrote on Fri, 03 January 2014 09:12 |
All of that I agree with but a feature I try and add whenever possible is a marine sealed on/off battery switch. I look at it as a safety issue, if there is a problem, shorted wire trying to melt down, electrical ignited fire, etc., if you can have the presence of mind to pull open the pass. front hood and shut off the battery, you will go a long way to save your coach. It's hard to find 2 gauge molded battery cables with molded post style ends, we make them. Larger cables will carry more current and have less drop. Small things like this are important. Do not use those "emergency" bolt on post connectors-- they are a problem waiting to happen.
Could not find the rest of the thread on this so I'm not sure what you are checking out in your charging system but these are 2 issues I try to identify and solve.
Jim Bounds
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Jim,
While I totally agree with your posting, that was not the purpose of this flow chart. There is a lot more that can be added for other things but my intent was to keep it as simple as possible.
About every three months we get a request for help from someone (usually new to GMC) asking how to diagnose why one or both of their batteries will not charge from the engine driven alternator. I got tired of typing the same procedures over and over again. Also I'm not the only one that answers these posts. So I put together a simple black and white easily printable flow chart and posted it on the GMC photo site. This way the next time this question comes up we cans simply point the person to the chart and let them go through the initial problem determination. After they determine a specific area of failure, we can assist them on how to proceed from there.
I have a battery disconnect switch on both of my batteries. I also had a fire a few years back and the wiring to the fuel pump melted shorting it to a running condition. The electric fuel pump was feeding the fire. The only way I got it out was by pulling the battery disconnect switch which is easily accessible on my coach under the passenger side hood.
The insurance company paid $9000 to fix everything that burned on my coach. At least it did burn to the ground. It almost did.
That result of that fire is what got me into using AR-AFFF fire extinguishers. I dumped several dry chem (useless), one halon (also useless), and 2 CO2 extinguishers getting it put out.
Getting the fuel source shut down was the key to shutting off that fire.
After that fire we discovered AFFF and AR-AFFF which I did not have available at the time. That is when we got about 75 of them and sold them at cost to interested GMCers.
About 2 years later a week long fire academy was set up at our local airport. Fire departments from 100 miles around sent their people here for training. I got to see their training using all types of extinguishing equipment. The hardest one to put out was a gasoline fire with 10% Ethanol added. The best thing they used was AR-AFFF. The second best for was AFFF that they used on straight gasoline fires.
The FAA requires the use of AFFF (aircraft do not have ethanol diluted fuel). So our local airport FD which services both on and off the airport fires has both types. AFFF is used on aircraft only and AR-AFFF on non-aircraft and off airport use.
So I am happy to see that you are selling foam fire extinguishers. I also fully endorse the add on installation of battery shut off switches. My coach would not be here if I hadn't had that switch installed.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
[Updated on: Fri, 03 January 2014 18:29] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC Charging system checkout [message #234959 is a reply to message #234916] |
Fri, 03 January 2014 17:35 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Jim,
A picture is worth a thousand words:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p39553-battery-switches.html
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Bounds
All of that I agree with but a feature I try and add whenever possible is a marine sealed on/off battery switch. I look at it as a
safety issue, if there is a problem, shorted wire trying to melt down, electrical ignited fire, etc., if you can have the presence
of mind to pull open the pass. front hood and shut off the battery, you will go a long way to save your coach. It's hard to find 2
gauge molded battery cables with molded post style ends, we make them. Larger cables will carry more current and have less drop.
Small things like this are important. Do not use those "emergency" bolt on post connectors-- they are a problem waiting to happen.
Could not find the rest of the thread on this so I'm not sure what you are checking out in your charging system but these are 2
issues I try to identify and solve.
Jim
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: GMC Charging system checkout [message #235016 is a reply to message #234775] |
Sat, 04 January 2014 00:06 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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The photo site page has changed. I updated the original posting with the new page but emailers do not get updates.
So just for emailers here is the new url for this page.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/15/GMC_charging_system_checkout.pdf
Someone smarter than me noticed that the .jpg file did not print out very well. Also I made some minor formatting changes and added one item. Since no one contacted me about technical errors, this should be the final update.
Due to the mentioned printing problem the updated chart is back on the photo site as a .pdf.
Bookmark it if you want it for the future as I'll probably never figure out where it is on the photo site again.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: GMC Charging system checkout [message #235033 is a reply to message #234775] |
Sat, 04 January 2014 09:06 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Thanks Ken for assembling. Docs like this and things like Rob's front end shake down sheet and others would be great if located in one spot. Not sure if that is so already or possible but then we could point people there easily.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: GMC Charging system checkout [message #235060 is a reply to message #234775] |
Sat, 04 January 2014 12:13 |
cbryan
Messages: 451
Registered: May 2012
Location: Ennis, Texas
Karma: 3
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Ken,
Thank you for this. I am going to do those steps you recommend in the box before troubleshooting an indicated low voltage in the EFI. Hadn't picked up the necessity of having the ground wire to the isolator. BTW, if one looked at the big river website, one might find high current isolators very cheaply, though made offshore in the normal place. Could you expand on just how the instrument panel is grounded? I have a homemade panel and it is a bonanza. Whatever happens, I have an indicated 1/4 tank of gas in both tanks! This is great, like the fountain of youth. It doesn't explain how I can run out of gas with 1/4 tank. That's just one small glitch in the good news. However, it is a great feeling looking at the gauge and seeing 1/4. Alas, it has aggravated me and one project is to try and get the gauge reading correctly. And good luck to me.
Thanks again, this is really good.
Carey
Carey from Ennis, Texas
78 Royale, 500 Cadillac, Rance Baxter EFI.
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| Re: GMC Charging system checkout [message #235068 is a reply to message #235060] |
Sat, 04 January 2014 13:21 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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The isolator itself does not require ground to operate but other things on that plate or that attach to that plate do hence the need for the ground wire from that plate to the battery or engine block. The instrument panel also needs a ground on the engine ground system (not the body ground). So GM ran a single wire from the aluminum plate that the instruments are attached to or mounted in. That wire runs to the aluminum plate that has the isolator on it. The instrument panel end of that wire has been known to loosen up or oxidize causing weird instrument indications. I'm trying to remember exactly where the wire is attached on the instrument panel aluminum plate. I believe it is in the lower right corner but I could be wrong on this.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC Charging system checkout [message #235161 is a reply to message #235122] |
Sun, 05 January 2014 14:56 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
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| bdub wrote on Sat, 04 January 2014 22:17 |
Thats the way it's supposed to work, Mark. Everyone has the option to replace the generic "Multimedia" label thumbnail with one of thier choosing but seldom do. I had the jpg handy so used it. In fact, it's the jpg of the original diagram and not the latest. Who cares? It is representative and is too small to read anyhow.
bdub
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You exploited a rarely used feature and confused me. The most important thing is that future searchers can find it
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