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Thermasan question [message #234565]

Tue, 31 December 2013 10:05

Loffen

Messages: 1087
Registered: August 2013
Location: Norway

Karma: 1

Senior Member

I have just started to work on my Thermasan system and found that the exhaust injector is in a poor state, I guess that it is almost impossible to get a new one (please send me a PM if you have one on the shelf) so my question is if the mesh around the outlet tube is needed ?

I can only think of one reason why it is there and that is to moisturize the liquid as it enter the exhaust, but would not the heat do the same job ?

Do any one have any ideas ?

1973 23' # 1848 Sky Blue Glacier called Baby Blue and a 1973 26'-3 # 1460 Parrot green Seqouia Known as the Big Green, And sold my 1973 26'-2 # 581 White Canyon lands under the name Dobbelt trøbbel in Norway

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Re: Thermasan question [message #234567 is a reply to message #234565]

Tue, 31 December 2013 10:11

Loffen

Messages: 1087
Registered: August 2013
Location: Norway

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Senior Member

I am talking about fig 3 and 4 on this picture.

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l610/Espen_Heitmann/Thermasaninjector_zpsf740552e.png

1973 23' # 1848 Sky Blue Glacier called Baby Blue and a 1973 26'-3 # 1460 Parrot green Seqouia Known as the Big Green, And sold my 1973 26'-2 # 581 White Canyon lands under the name Dobbelt trøbbel in Norway

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Re: Thermasan question [message #234573 is a reply to message #234565]

Tue, 31 December 2013 11:10

Matt Colie

Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan

Karma: 7

Senior Member

Espen,

I can tell you that the stainless screen on the injector was not all that fine. The best (iirc) was 25 mesh (~1 wire/mm) of 0.015" wire. The spacing of the screen (sanitizer) was not real critical, its purpose was two-fold. First, was to cause the liquid effluent to vaporize enough so the entrained solids could be oxidized. And second was to retain any larger particles long enough for the exhaust heat to break them down. There was also a fear in Bud Sargent's (head of engineering at the time) mind that those particles could collect and plug the passages in the vehicle muffler. He didn't know a lot about how 3-tube mufflers actually worked. So, the early version had a screen cover over the open end. This was expensive to do. So, I later extended the screen and had it made with a 0.060" ring welded in the end. The screen cannot be left open at the outer end as the exhaust pulses will cause the wire fabric to fatigue.

You may not believe this, but I was the last engineer on the Thermasan program. I had an injector around even after the last time we moved over 20 years ago, but I don't recall seeing it recently. If I find it, I will let you know. I parted company with Thetford at the very end of 1974 and went back to sea. I was told that the product was discontinued in 1978. (GMC being their last customer and aftermarket installs were killed by the states versions of EPA.

Any information still in the 40yo memories is available, but consistency and accuracy cannot be guaranteed.

Matt

Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit

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Re: Thermasan question [message #234587 is a reply to message #234573]

Tue, 31 December 2013 12:45

Loffen

Messages: 1087
Registered: August 2013
Location: Norway

Karma: 1

Senior Member

Thank you for the great info Matt.

I have the remains of the original injector and will try to make a copy of it, should not be to difficult.

The pump hose, was it anything special or will a normal silicon hose do the job ?, and yes a high temp silicon hose on the exhaust side ?

And last.. Happy New Year to all on the forum ! Smile

Smile

1973 23' # 1848 Sky Blue Glacier called Baby Blue and a 1973 26'-3 # 1460 Parrot green Seqouia Known as the Big Green, And sold my 1973 26'-2 # 581 White Canyon lands under the name Dobbelt trøbbel in Norway

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Re: Thermasan question [message #234590 is a reply to message #234587]

Tue, 31 December 2013 13:11

Matt Colie

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Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan

Karma: 7

Senior Member

Loffen wrote on Tue, 31 December 2013 13:45

Thank you for the great info Matt.

I have the remains of the original injector and will try to make a copy of it, should not be to difficult.

The pump hose, was it anything special or will a normal silicon hose do the job ?, and yes a high temp silicon hose on the exhaust side ?

And last.. Happy New Year to all on the forum ! Smile

Smile

Yes, it has to be high temp near the exhaust. Both just because it is hot there, but also because the little pump can leak back sometimes and that hose can get real warm when that happens.

Matt

Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit

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Re: Thermasan question [message #234632 is a reply to message #234565]

Tue, 31 December 2013 19:33

mike miller

Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon

Karma: 0

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Loffen wrote on Tue, 31 December 2013 08:05

I have just started to work on my Thermasan system and found that the exhaust injector is in a poor state, ...

...
Do any one have any ideas ?

I was thinking of making an injector from an old O2 sensor. Keep the metal shield from around the tip to cover the injector opening and use a weld in bung to install it.

Haven't gotten much past the think about it stage... Rolling Eyes

Rolling Eyes

Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo' http://m000035.blogspot.com

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Re: Thermasan question [message #234677 is a reply to message #234632]

Wed, 01 January 2014 04:44

Loffen

Messages: 1087
Registered: August 2013
Location: Norway

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Senior Member

Great idea Mike !

It would make a pretty clean install, I have an old O2 sensor up at the workshop and will try to take it apart just to see if it is possible to do anything with it.

1973 23' # 1848 Sky Blue Glacier called Baby Blue and a 1973 26'-3 # 1460 Parrot green Seqouia Known as the Big Green, And sold my 1973 26'-2 # 581 White Canyon lands under the name Dobbelt trøbbel in Norway

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Re: Thermasan question [message #234769 is a reply to message #234677]

Wed, 01 January 2014 20:33

mike miller

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Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon

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Let us know how it works out. It might give me the motivation to actually fix my Thermasan. Of course I should get a usable coach first! Rolling Eyes

Rolling Eyes

Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo' http://m000035.blogspot.com

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Re: Thermasan question [message #234787 is a reply to message #234769]

Thu, 02 January 2014 04:34

Loffen

Messages: 1087
Registered: August 2013
Location: Norway

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Senior Member

Will do Mike

I had a clean up at the workshop a couple of months ago and are trying to locate the darn thing...

Anyways the pump is a Masterflex 7017, and you can still buy them new or on Ebay as 7017.20 or 7017.25 (Stainless)

The Silicon hose has a 1/4" (6.4mm) Id and 3/8" (9.5mm) Od

The sticker on the motor says 4911476 240 3 5A (1964-67 Two speed chevelle, chevy II, Nova)

1973 23' # 1848 Sky Blue Glacier called Baby Blue and a 1973 26'-3 # 1460 Parrot green Seqouia Known as the Big Green, And sold my 1973 26'-2 # 581 White Canyon lands under the name Dobbelt trøbbel in Norway

[Updated on: Thu, 02 January 2014 04:51]

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Re: Thermasan question [message #234788 is a reply to message #234787]

Thu, 02 January 2014 05:33

Loffen

Messages: 1087
Registered: August 2013
Location: Norway

Karma: 1

Senior Member

Matt

Did you have any heat issues with the motor ?
After bench running it without any load for about 20 minutes it was pretty hot, 160 F and rising.

1973 23' # 1848 Sky Blue Glacier called Baby Blue and a 1973 26'-3 # 1460 Parrot green Seqouia Known as the Big Green, And sold my 1973 26'-2 # 581 White Canyon lands under the name Dobbelt trøbbel in Norway

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Re: Thermasan question [message #234796 is a reply to message #234788]

Thu, 02 January 2014 08:07

Matt Colie

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Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan

Karma: 7

Senior Member

Loffen wrote on Thu, 02 January 2014 06:33

Matt

Did you have any heat issues with the motor ?
After bench running it without any load for about 20 minutes it was pretty hot, 160 F and rising.

Espen,

The engineer in the other lab was working on the RV version and a lot of their issue was with the pick-up screen. He ran tests for days with that wiper pump motor and rarely replaced one, so I would have to say no. He even had a stand with six running just as a durability test.

The production RV units also had a jumper installed on the three terminals so the motor would run faster than it in its intended service.

I did see one burn out, but that one was new and defective.

Matt

Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit

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Re: Thermasan question [message #234852 is a reply to message #234796]

Thu, 02 January 2014 20:18

mike miller

Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon

Karma: 0

Senior Member

Matt Colie wrote on Thu, 02 January 2014 06:07

...
The production RV units also had a jumper installed on the three terminals so the motor would run faster than it in its intended service. ...

Pictures I posted quite a while ago:
<http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g3741-thermasan-system-repair-hopefully.html>

The picture of the jumper Matt mentions:
<http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/3741/741_p8339.jpg>

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/3741/741_p8339.jpg

Some day I'll work on that coach and put it back into service. THEN it would make sense to fix the Thermasan.

Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo' http://m000035.blogspot.com

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Re: Thermasan question [message #236140 is a reply to message #234852]

Tue, 14 January 2014 07:47

Loffen

Messages: 1087
Registered: August 2013
Location: Norway

Karma: 1

Senior Member

Finally got the right silicon tube and could test run the pump, it works great ! Smile

Smile

Click on the picture to see a short video.

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l610/Espen_Heitmann/1973%20Sequoia/th_IMGP0031_zpsfc235c56.jpg

1973 23' # 1848 Sky Blue Glacier called Baby Blue and a 1973 26'-3 # 1460 Parrot green Seqouia Known as the Big Green, And sold my 1973 26'-2 # 581 White Canyon lands under the name Dobbelt trøbbel in Norway

[Updated on: Tue, 14 January 2014 07:49]

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Re: Thermasan question [message #236149 is a reply to message #236140]

Tue, 14 January 2014 08:47

Matt Colie

Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan

Karma: 7

Senior Member

[quote title=Loffen wrote on Tue, 14 January 2014 08:47]Finally got the right silicon tube and could test run the pump, it works great ! Smile

Smile

Espen,

The pumps do work great. But, if you do use it, change out the piece of tubing in the pump at least every year and more often if you use it much. The big failure with that system was that the tubing would crack and leak the Ah.... Corrosive fluid into the works of the pump. The pump will be unusable shortly after and they are not inexpensive. The motors ran many hundreds of hours.

Matt

Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit

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Re: Thermasan question [message #347043 is a reply to message #236149]

Thu, 29 August 2019 13:03

Rich Kinas

Messages: 113
Registered: July 2019

Karma: 1

Senior Member

Resurrecting this thread if ya'll don't mind. I am determined to create a ThermaSan system from scratch, meaning I am starting with no parts but find the benefit of such a unit so appealing that I cannot shake the idea from my head. Anyway I have purchased a pump and motor from your favorite auction site. Next is to create the two brackets' the motor bracket and the pump bracket. I noticed that the original system had the pump with the side with the protrusion on the shaft pointing away from the motor, however I am probably going to make the motor to pump connector with my 3D printer, so to make it thicker and stronger I would like to use of the other end of the shaft (i.e. Turn the pump around). I don't have the pump in front of me but I believe it is non-directional hence this should work with no problems? Anyway Matt has some great pictures of his system online (Thank you, these are a big help) but some dimensions would be very beneficial if anyone could provide these. Or I don't suppose anyone has any extra parts lying around they want to part with? Wishful thinking. Also I need to know which terminals are connected to +12 and which to ground, or cross-connected to each other. I am trying not to pester Matt to death with questions even though he has graciously offered his expertise.

Thanks as always everyone.

Rich Kinas
1976 Eleganza II
Orlando FL

Rich Kinas 1976 Elaganza II Orlando, FL

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Re: Thermasan question [message #347045 is a reply to message #347043]

Thu, 29 August 2019 13:37

6cuda6

Messages: 975
Registered: June 2019

Karma: -6

Senior Member

Subscribed.....i like this, its interesting and i might do this too.

Rich Mondor, Brockville, ON 77 Hughes 2600

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Re: [GMCnet] Thermasan question [message #347048 is a reply to message #347043]

Thu, 29 August 2019 14:38

emerystora

Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004

Karma: 13

Senior Member

Rich

I have several parts for the thermosan including pumps, pumps with motors and brackets, hoses, etc.

Over the years I have had two motorhomes with Thermosans.

I bought a lot of parts a few years ago when a dealer went out of business. I have sold off a lot of the parts including two complete Thermosans in original boxes.

I moved a few years ago so I have the parts in moving boxes. So, I don’r have a current inventory of what I have. I’ll have to unpack the boxes and take inventory if you are interested in parts.

Let me know.

Emery Stora

> On Aug 29, 2019, at 12:03 PM, Rich Kinas via Gmclist wrote:
>
> Resurrecting this thread if ya'll don't mind. I am determined to create a Thermosan system from scratch, meaning I am starting with no parts but find
> the benefit of such a unit so appealing that I cannot shake the idea from my head. Anyway I have purchased a pump and motor from your favorite auction
> site. Next is to create the two brackets' the motor bracket and the pump bracket. I noticed that the original system had the pump with the side with
> the protrusion on the shaft pointing away from the motor, however I am probably going to make the motor to pump connector with my 3D printer, so to
> make it thicker and stronger I would like to use of the other end of the shaft (i.e. Turn the pump around). I don't have the pump in front of me but I
> believe it is non-directional hence this should work with no problems? Anyway Matt has some great pictures of his system online (Thank you, these are
> a big help) but some dimensions would be very beneficial if anyone could provide these. Or I don't suppose anyone has any extra parts lying around
> they want to part with? Wishful thinking. Also I need to know which terminals are connected to +12 and which to ground, or cross-connected to each
> other. I am trying not to pester Matt to death with questions even though he has graciously offered his expertise.
>
> Thanks as always everyone.
>
> Rich Kinas
> 1976 Eleganza II
> Orlando FL
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

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Re: [GMCnet] Thermasan question [message #347049 is a reply to message #347048]

Thu, 29 August 2019 15:16

6cuda6

Messages: 975
Registered: June 2019

Karma: -6

Senior Member

emerystora wrote on Thu, 29 August 2019 15:38

Rich

I have several parts for the thermosan including pumps, pumps with motors and brackets, hoses, etc.

Over the years I have had two motorhomes with Thermosans.

I bought a lot of parts a few years ago when a dealer went out of business. I have sold off a lot of the parts including two complete Thermosans in original boxes.

I moved a few years ago so I have the parts in moving boxes. So, I don'r have a current inventory of what I have. I'll have to unpack the boxes and take inventory if you are interested in parts.

Let me know.

Emery Stora

> On Aug 29, 2019, at 12:03 PM, Rich Kinas via Gmclist wrote:
>
> Resurrecting this thread if ya'll don't mind. I am determined to create a Thermosan system from scratch, meaning I am starting with no parts but find
> the benefit of such a unit so appealing that I cannot shake the idea from my head. Anyway I have purchased a pump and motor from your favorite auction
> site. Next is to create the two brackets' the motor bracket and the pump bracket. I noticed that the original system had the pump with the side with
> the protrusion on the shaft pointing away from the motor, however I am probably going to make the motor to pump connector with my 3D printer, so to
> make it thicker and stronger I would like to use of the other end of the shaft (i.e. Turn the pump around). I don't have the pump in front of me but I
> believe it is non-directional hence this should work with no problems? Anyway Matt has some great pictures of his system online (Thank you, these are
> a big help) but some dimensions would be very beneficial if anyone could provide these. Or I don't suppose anyone has any extra parts lying around
> they want to part with? Wishful thinking. Also I need to know which terminals are connected to +12 and which to ground, or cross-connected to each
> other. I am trying not to pester Matt to death with questions even though he has graciously offered his expertise.
>
> Thanks as always everyone.
>
> Rich Kinas
> 1976 Eleganza II
> Orlando FL
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

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Emery i sent you an email directly.

Rich Mondor, Brockville, ON 77 Hughes 2600

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Re: [GMCnet] Thermasan question [message #347117 is a reply to message #347048]

Fri, 30 August 2019 16:31

Rich Kinas

Messages: 113
Registered: July 2019

Karma: 1

Senior Member

Emery I am very interested. Please check what you have left and let me know. Thank you.

Rich Kinas
1976 Elaganza II
Orlando FL

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 29, 2019, at 3:38 PM, Emery Stora via Gmclist wrote:
>
> Rich
>
> I have several parts for the thermosan including pumps, pumps with motors and brackets, hoses, etc.
>
> Over the years I have had two motorhomes with Thermosans.
>
> I bought a lot of parts a few years ago when a dealer went out of business. I have sold off a lot of the parts including two complete Thermosans in original boxes.
>
> I moved a few years ago so I have the parts in moving boxes. So, I don’r have a current inventory of what I have. I’ll have to unpack the boxes and take inventory if you are interested in parts.
>
> Let me know.
>
> Emery Stora
>
>> On Aug 29, 2019, at 12:03 PM, Rich Kinas via Gmclist wrote:
>>
>> Resurrecting this thread if ya'll don't mind. I am determined to create a Thermosan system from scratch, meaning I am starting with no parts but find
>> the benefit of such a unit so appealing that I cannot shake the idea from my head. Anyway I have purchased a pump and motor from your favorite auction
>> site. Next is to create the two brackets' the motor bracket and the pump bracket. I noticed that the original system had the pump with the side with
>> the protrusion on the shaft pointing away from the motor, however I am probably going to make the motor to pump connector with my 3D printer, so to
>> make it thicker and stronger I would like to use of the other end of the shaft (i.e. Turn the pump around). I don't have the pump in front of me but I
>> believe it is non-directional hence this should work with no problems? Anyway Matt has some great pictures of his system online (Thank you, these are
>> a big help) but some dimensions would be very beneficial if anyone could provide these. Or I don't suppose anyone has any extra parts lying around
>> they want to part with? Wishful thinking. Also I need to know which terminals are connected to +12 and which to ground, or cross-connected to each
>> other. I am trying not to pester Matt to death with questions even though he has graciously offered his expertise.
>>
>> Thanks as always everyone.
>>
>> Rich Kinas
>> 1976 Eleganza II
>> Orlando FL
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

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Rich Kinas 1976 Elaganza II Orlando, FL

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