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| Re: Why are my toad's front tires wearing like this? [message #234413 is a reply to message #234364] |
Sun, 29 December 2013 22:14   |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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Many technicians and tire sales people have laid the blame on shocks, struts, alignment and worn parts, and improper inflation, until it showed up on a few cars that we (the technicians)knew the above issues were NOT the problem. It turned out to be the TIRES. The ones we had a problem with were General brand. However, I have seen this occur on many vehicles in the past 3 decades, and many brands of tires were afflicted. Many times the vehicles had worn parts on the front suspension, but this has also been presented to us on the rear tires, most often with front wheel drive vehicles. In those cases the alignment or tire loading and inflation was erroneous.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Why are my toad's front tires wearing like this? [message #234423 is a reply to message #234413] |
Mon, 30 December 2013 05:18 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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looks like the tires may be out of balance, and doing "the hop" being
pulled unloaded ?
gene
On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 8:14 PM, Terry <mrbullitt@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
> Many technicians and tire sales people have laid the blame on shocks,
> struts, alignment and worn parts, and improper inflation, until it showed
> up on a few cars that we (the technicians)knew the above issues were NOT
> the problem. It turned out to be the TIRES. The ones we had a problem with
> were General brand. However, I have seen this occur on many vehicles in the
> past 3 decades, and many brands of tires were afflicted. Many times the
> vehicles had worn parts on the front suspension, but this has also been
> presented to us on the rear tires, most often with front wheel drive
> vehicles. In those cases the alignment or tire loading and inflation was
> erroneous.
> --
> Terry Kelpien
> 73 Glacier 260
> Smithfield, Va.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
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Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: Why are my toad's front tires wearing like this? [message #234438 is a reply to message #234364] |
Mon, 30 December 2013 08:30 |
Ultravan Owners
Messages: 443
Registered: March 2013
Karma: 0
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Slight, or what they call thin, inner or outer wear is a sign of possible tie-rod play. (See first tire in Picture #1 called: Interpreting tread wear patterns.)
(Have it checked or jack up one side of the vehicle place jack stand under the vehicle for safety and then place your hands at 3 and 9 and shake the tire left and right while watching the outer and inner tie-rod on that side for play. Then do the same for the other side.)
A more aggressive, overstated, wear on either the outside or inside edge is more than likely a chamber problem. (See Second tire in Picture #1 called: Interpreting tread wear patterns.)
I cannot tell from the pictures – However, if you can rub your hand on the bad edge of the tire(s) (check for metal core showing before you do this) and it feels like (what I call) a tidal wave effect – you can have more than one problem.
In the above case: first check for front end play (most likely tie-rod play) and then check to be sure tire(s) are balanced. If tire(s) are balanced – most likely bad shocks and a tie-rod end has gone bad..
A bad tie-rod end allows the tire to move in and out slightly. That in combination to what I call the tidal wave effect is when a tire also bounces at the same time.
The bouncing can be caused by either a tire being out of balance tires and/or bad shocks which allow the tire to only hit the ground every now and then after running over bumps.
Keep in mind that the bumps at higher speeds do not have to be noticeable to a person to cause this kind of problem.
When a rotating tire hits, makes contact with the ground again, it will cause the cupping or tidal wave effect. Out of balance tires is the main cause – however like I stated before shocks can cause it too.
Hope this and the pictures help.
Sincerely, Tony
Tire wear Patterns
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o314/cobalt_anubis/tread-wear.jpg
Another wear pattern chart
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=27587&stc=1&d=1284415556
The last wear pattern chart.
http://www.procarcare.com/images/shar/encyclopedia/Tccs1267.gif
Tony (Ontario Canada)
Marie and I are blessed to have had a 2nd chance to buy our farm.
Still hoping and more importantly praying to be able to build a garage.
Our 1970 Ultravan #520 has an Olds Toronado 455 in back.
[Updated on: Mon, 30 December 2013 08:38] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Why are my toad's front tires wearing like this? [message #234461 is a reply to message #234364] |
Mon, 30 December 2013 12:27 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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| armandminnie wrote on Sun, 29 December 2013 13:37 |
...
What could be causing that type of wear?
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While not disagreeing with any prior comments. I do have two comments of my own:
-- Flat towing will wear the front tires more than driving the towd. Some towds are very bad about this for seemingly no good reason.
-- Do the tires in the pictures seem to be leaning out? (Not sitting on the ground squarely) Looks like a camber issue. Does this Tracker have any suspension modifications like a lift?
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: Why are my toad's front tires wearing like this? [message #234478 is a reply to message #234364] |
Mon, 30 December 2013 17:54 |
armandminnie
Messages: 864
Registered: May 2009
Location: Marana, AZ
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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OK, thanks everyone for the suggestions. I will get the front end checked for alignment and wear. I did some research via google and it seems that lots of people have had similar wear issues with various tow cars without every finding anything wrong - something to do with towing is the conclusion. I have towed this Tracker a good 30K miles and driven it under its own power less than 5K. Almost always with the steering wheel unlocked (there was that one time on a dirt road)and the tow bar nice and level.
Armand Minnie
Marana, AZ
'76 Eleganza II TZE166V103202
visit my gmc blog
click here to visit gmcws.org
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| Re: Why are my toad's front tires wearing like this? [message #234526 is a reply to message #234478] |
Mon, 30 December 2013 23:10 |
Ultravan Owners
Messages: 443
Registered: March 2013
Karma: 0
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| armandminnie wrote on Mon, 30 December 2013 18:54 |
OK, thanks everyone for the suggestions. I will get the front end checked for alignment and wear. I did some research via google and it seems that lots of people have had similar wear issues with various tow cars without every finding anything wrong - something to do with towing is the conclusion. I have towed this Tracker a good 30K miles and driven it under its own power less than 5K. Almost always with the steering wheel unlocked (there was that one time on a dirt road)and the tow bar nice and level.
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If the Aligment is okay - it would seem that something is out of specs while being towed.
FYI - I had a simular problem when towing a light front end Ultravan. It would have to drag the front tires through slow tight turns while towing in towns/cities.
BTW - I might have missed it. Are you towing it on a dolly or flat - all fours?
Tony (Ontario Canada)
Marie and I are blessed to have had a 2nd chance to buy our farm.
Still hoping and more importantly praying to be able to build a garage.
Our 1970 Ultravan #520 has an Olds Toronado 455 in back.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Why are my toad's front tires wearing like this? [message #234578 is a reply to message #234561] |
Tue, 31 December 2013 11:39 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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It takes a while, and perhaps a "cocked wheel" incident to realize that in
every turn, at the start, the toad's front wheels turn OPPOSITE to those of
the towing vehicle. Think about it: When you turn left, the rear of the
tow vehicle moves RIGHT to establish the new attitude. The toad is forced
to the right 'cause it only follows the rear of the tower. Once the new
attitude is established, the toad s wheels swing back in the turn direction
to conform because the tower's now dragging it that way.
Where the problem arises, and I had it happen to me towing a light Toyota
pickup behind the 40' Safari with probably 7'+ rear overhang, is when the
toad doesn't transition from the right to the left turn. In my case I made
a sharp turn out of a parking place in soft Florida sand. The ruts formed
as the truck turned right prevented the wheels from pivoting back left.
Instead they went full lock to the right, and stayed there. Until I saw
the big cloud of dust in my rear view mirrors and camera. The truck was
coming along behind the big coach just fine -- but its front wheels were
still wanting to go right.
Some people have had so much trouble with that, notably with VW Beetles,
that they center the steering wheel with bungee cords. I have no idea how
effective that is.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Armand Minnie <armand@minniebiz.com>wrote:
>
>
> Flat towing - I keep an eye on the front tires as I make sharp turns to
> make sure the wheels turn like they are supposed to - no apparent problems.
> I could see dragging the fronts a little sideways in sharp turns but how
> many of those happen in relation to all towing? Not much I would guess.
> --
>
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www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Why are my toad's front tires wearing like this? [message #234714 is a reply to message #234364] |
Wed, 01 January 2014 12:00 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Frankly I wouldn't worry about it. Cupping has been around for as long as I remember and has never been fully explained. For some reason, towing aggravates the situation and most alignment fixes don't fix it. In your case the cause appears to be sawdust 
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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