Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Transmission _very_ sluggish (and the coach has been sitting)
| Transmission _very_ sluggish [message #233720] |
Sun, 22 December 2013 19:32  |
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Richard RV
Messages: 631
Registered: July 2012
Location: Full-timer for 12 years, ...
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Hi. I've been working on the coach for some months, transmission was drained. Today I pulled it out onto the street, but it took a while.
I put in the specified amount of transmission fluid, including the extra quart for the Ragusa pan, and the coach wouldn't move. I had installed a remote dipstick earlier while the transmission was drained (pan never removed and stick never calibrated). No fluid at all showed up on the stick. I added some more fluid and the very tip of the stick showed wet. After cycling back and forth through the gears, and revving the engine a bit I got the coach to move.
The coach will move, but it takes its sweet time deciding to move. Put it in drive or reverse with no foot on the brake and it sits. If I rev it a bit it will move after a while.
Could this be something as simple as a transmission filter that sat and got gunked up? Or is it sounding like I need to take it to a pro, and if so can I drive it?
thanks and Merry Christmas
Richard
'77 Birchaven TZE...777;
'76 Palm Beach under construction;
‘76 Edgemont waiting its turn
[Updated on: Sun, 22 December 2013 20:08] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission _very_ sluggish [message #233729 is a reply to message #233720] |
Sun, 22 December 2013 20:48  |
Kingsley Coach
Messages: 2691
Registered: March 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Karma: -34
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I wouldn't get too excited, I suspect the fluid drained out of your torque
converter and into the pan. You will have to add more trans fluid to
compensate for the leak down.
Others will tell you how to measure with the larger pan.
Mike in NS
On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 9:32 PM, Richard <GMC77Birchaven@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi. I've been working on the coach for some months, transmission was
> drained. Today I pulled it out onto the street, but it took a while.
>
> I put in the specified amount of transmission fluid, including the extra
> quart for the Ragusa pan, and the coach wouldn't move. I had installed a
> remote dipstick earlier while the transmission was drained (pan never
> removed and stick never calibrated). No fluid at all showed up on the
> stick. I added some more fluid and the very top of the stick showed wet.
> After cycling back and forth through the gears, and revving the engine a
> bit I got the coach to move.
>
> The coach will move, but it takes its sweet time deciding to move. Put it
> in drive or reverse with no fit on the brake and it sits. If I rev it a
> bit it will move after a while.
>
> Could this be something as simple as a transmission filter that sat and
> got gunked up? Or is it sounding like I need to take it to a pro, and if
> so can I drive it?
>
> thanks and Merry Christmas
>
> Richard
> --
> '77 Birchaven TZE...777
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Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission _very_ sluggish [message #233735 is a reply to message #233729] |
Sun, 22 December 2013 21:29 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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I agree with Mike. Needs more fluid. If the pan stayed off for some time, the torque converter most certainly drained. I lost about 2 quarts via a torn square o-ring on the governor, self induced failure. Produced a similiar symptom. Once more fluid was added, everything worked fine.
Tom, MS II
P.S. Square o-ring is unobtainum.
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission _very_ sluggish [message #233737 is a reply to message #233735] |
Sun, 22 December 2013 21:52 |
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Richard RV
Messages: 631
Registered: July 2012
Location: Full-timer for 12 years, ...
Karma: -17
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Thank you, gentlemen, I can feel my wallet breathing a sigh of relief!
I've read about how to remove the modulator to determine the exact level and calibrate the new dipstick, but for the initial fill to make it driveable, how many quarts would you add if the torque converter drained down?
thanks for the help
Richard
'77 Birchaven TZE...777;
'76 Palm Beach under construction;
‘76 Edgemont waiting its turn
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission _very_ sluggish [message #233743 is a reply to message #233737] |
Sun, 22 December 2013 22:22 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Richard,
I would suggest you:
1) Park your GMC on a level surface
2) Set your parking brake
3) Start the engine
4) Depress the brake pedal
5) Cycle the transmission lever through all the positions back and forth several times slowly
6) Return the transmission to Park
7) With the engine running check the fluid level of the transmission
8) Add fluid until the fluid reaches the "COLD" line
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard
Thank you, gentlemen, I can feel my wallet breathing a sigh of relief!
I've read about how to remove the modulator to determine the exact level and calibrate the new dipstick, but for the initial fill to
make it driveable, how many quarts would you add if the torque converter drained down?
thanks for the help
Richard
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission _very_ sluggish [message #233753 is a reply to message #233743] |
Sun, 22 December 2013 22:54 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Rob,
That probably will not work. He has a newly installed uncalibrated transmission dipstick. He needs to go through the "remove the modulator routine" to determine the correct trans fluid level.
| Robert Mueller wrote on Sun, 22 December 2013 22:22 |
Richard,
I would suggest you:
1) Park your GMC on a level surface
2) Set your parking brake
3) Start the engine
4) Depress the brake pedal
5) Cycle the transmission lever through all the positions back and forth several times slowly
6) Return the transmission to Park
7) With the engine running check the fluid level of the transmission
 Add fluid until the fluid reaches the "COLD" line
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard
Thank you, gentlemen, I can feel my wallet breathing a sigh of relief!
I've read about how to remove the modulator to determine the exact level and calibrate the new dipstick, but for the initial fill to
make it driveable, how many quarts would you add if the torque converter drained down?
thanks for the help
Richard
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Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission _very_ sluggish [message #233755 is a reply to message #233753] |
Sun, 22 December 2013 23:09 |
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Richard RV
Messages: 631
Registered: July 2012
Location: Full-timer for 12 years, ...
Karma: -17
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The remote dipstick I picked up was from Golby and was GMC specific. Does anyone know offhand if that dipstick is already close-enough calibrated?
Ken, Rob's step-by-step instructions sound like it would be a conservative fill. I'll definitely remove the modulator to fine tune things, but for now do you see any danger in doing what Rob suggests? He works so hard on the step-by-step instructions that I'd like to use them!
Richard
'77 Birchaven TZE...777;
'76 Palm Beach under construction;
‘76 Edgemont waiting its turn
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission _very_ sluggish [message #233760 is a reply to message #233755] |
Sun, 22 December 2013 23:58 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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If you replaced the trans filter you may have an issue. It seems the filters now produced come from China and there have been issues with the filter tube being undersized. If you still have the old filter just mic it and compare with the new one. Jim K can probably set you up with a new filter that should work, he's aware of the problem.
Been there, done that recently.
Good luck,
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission _very_ sluggish [message #233763 is a reply to message #233755] |
Mon, 23 December 2013 00:55 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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I once moved a coach cross country that I could not keep trans fluid in. I was putting in a quart at every gas fill up (300 miles). I would fill it up the the mark on the remote trans dipstick. I finally called Manny and he asked where it was leaking from. I told him there was so much fluid everywhere that I could not tell where it was coming from. He had me pull the modulator. I did it while laying on the ground in a out of business store parking lot. I had transmission fluid running everywhere and a puddle about 8 or 10 feet in diameter. I estimate there was at least 2 quarts of fluid on the ground and maybe 3. After it quit running out of the modulator hole, I moved the coach so I could lay on the ground without laying in trans fluid and reinstalled he modulator. Then checking the dipstick it showed no trans fluid. We drove the GMC until the next fill up and checked the stick again. Nothing. Adding 1 pint caused fluid to run out of the modulator. So I determined that trans was at it's proper level. We drove the GMC another 2000 miles without needing to add any more fluid.
Mo point is that these add on remote dipsticks for the GMC need to be calibrated BEFORE you can rely on the readings.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission _very_ sluggish [message #233764 is a reply to message #233753] |
Mon, 23 December 2013 01:24 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Ken,
Agreed, I should have added 9) - 19) and I'm still not sure if they are 100% correct.
1) Park your GMC on a level surface
2) Set your parking brake
3) Start the engine
4) Depress the brake pedal
5) Cycle the transmission lever through all the positions back and forth several times slowly
6) Return the transmission to Park
7) With the engine running check the fluid level of the transmission
8) Add fluid until the fluid reaches the "COLD" line
9) Get back in the coach and put the trans in D and R to see if it moves as you would expect it to
10) If it does shut it down and allow the GMC to sit over night to cool everything down
11) Raise the GMC (level front to rear) on jack stands to provide enough clearance to access the modulator
12) Start the engine and apply the brakes and cycle the shift lever a few times to pump fluid back into the torque convertor
13) Shut off the engine and get under the GMC and quickly remove the modulator allowing fluid to drain into a pan until it just
drips
14) If fluid does not drain out add it slowly until it does.
15) Re-install the modulator
16) Get back in the GMC, start the engine and with the brakes on cycle the trans lever
17) Put the trans in P and check the level on the dipstick, it should be at or close to the Cold mark if not note where it is
18) Drive the GMC far enough to bring the transmission to normal operating temperatures
19) Put the trans in P and check the level on the dipstick, it should be at or close to the Hot mark if not note where it is
The question I have is do you want the fluid level at the modulator when it is cold or hot?
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Burton
Rob,
That probably will not work. He has a newly installed uncalibrated transmission dipstick. He needs to go through the "remove the
modulator routine" to determine the correct trans fluid level.
Ken
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission _very_ sluggish [message #233767 is a reply to message #233764] |
Mon, 23 December 2013 02:41 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Mon, 23 December 2013 01:24 |
Ken,
**SNIP **
The question I have is do you want the fluid level at the modulator when it is cold or hot?
Regards,
Rob M.
|
That is a question better answered by Manny than me.
I've never had a problem except on that one coach with the remote dipstick that we were transporting. I was only interested in getting it in the neighborhood of being correct.
I believe the difference between hot and cold is only about 1 pint.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission _very_ sluggish [message #233770 is a reply to message #233764] |
Mon, 23 December 2013 04:07 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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here is some similar poop
go here
http://gmcmotorhome.info/list.html
then here
http://gmcmotorhome.info/list.html#trany
the go here
http://gmcmotorhome.info/transmission.html#DIP
and read all you can
gene
On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 11:24 PM, Robert Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> Ken,
>
> Agreed, I should have added 9) - 19) and I'm still not sure if they are
> 100% correct.
>
> 1) Park your GMC on a level surface
> 2) Set your parking brake
> 3) Start the engine
> 4) Depress the brake pedal
> 5) Cycle the transmission lever through all the positions back and forth
> several times slowly
> 6) Return the transmission to Park
> 7) With the engine running check the fluid level of the transmission
> 8) Add fluid until the fluid reaches the "COLD" line
>
> 9) Get back in the coach and put the trans in D and R to see if it moves
> as you would expect it to
> 10) If it does shut it down and allow the GMC to sit over night to cool
> everything down
> 11) Raise the GMC (level front to rear) on jack stands to provide enough
> clearance to access the modulator
> 12) Start the engine and apply the brakes and cycle the shift lever a few
> times to pump fluid back into the torque convertor
> 13) Shut off the engine and get under the GMC and quickly remove the
> modulator allowing fluid to drain into a pan until it just
> drips
> 14) If fluid does not drain out add it slowly until it does.
> 15) Re-install the modulator
> 16) Get back in the GMC, start the engine and with the brakes on cycle the
> trans lever
> 17) Put the trans in P and check the level on the dipstick, it should be
> at or close to the Cold mark if not note where it is
> 18) Drive the GMC far enough to bring the transmission to normal operating
> temperatures
> 19) Put the trans in P and check the level on the dipstick, it should be
> at or close to the Hot mark if not note where it is
>
> The question I have is do you want the fluid level at the modulator when
> it is cold or hot?
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Burton
>
> Rob,
>
> That probably will not work. He has a newly installed uncalibrated
> transmission dipstick. He needs to go through the "remove the
> modulator routine" to determine the correct trans fluid level.
>
> Ken
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
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Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: Transmission _very_ sluggish [message #233779 is a reply to message #233720] |
Mon, 23 December 2013 07:48 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| Richard V. wrote on Sun, 22 December 2013 20:32 |
Hi. I've been working on the coach for some months, transmission was drained. Today I pulled it out onto the street, but it took a while.
I put in the specified amount of transmission fluid, including the extra quart for the Ragusa pan, and the coach wouldn't move. I had installed a remote dipstick earlier while the transmission was drained (pan never removed and stick never calibrated). No fluid at all showed up on the stick. I added some more fluid and the very tip of the stick showed wet. After cycling back and forth through the gears, and revving the engine a bit I got the coach to move.
The coach will move, but it takes its sweet time deciding to move. Put it in drive or reverse with no foot on the brake and it sits. If I rev it a bit it will move after a while.
Could this be something as simple as a transmission filter that sat and got gunked up? Or is it sounding like I need to take it to a pro, and if so can I drive it?
thanks and Merry Christmas
Richard
|
Richard,
What Recommended Amount?
After I had put my transmission back in, I had similar problems. I looked in the book and bought 7 or 8 quarts. When I "filled" the transmission, it didn't show on the stick and the coach didn't want to move. In a low level panic, I called Manny (again - he is patient). He told me the true fill is the trans has been emptied is more like 11 to 14 quarts. I have forgotten what it finally took, but it has been that way ever since.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Transmission _very_ sluggish [message #233857 is a reply to message #233720] |
Mon, 23 December 2013 20:15 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Too much and it pukes it out when hot which isn't that big a deal if you have the tube extension on the overflow to keep it from flaming. Too little and you smoke the clutches. If it were me i'd add a pint at a time till slip stopped, then add 1 pint more. Then do the calibrate ASAP (as soon as practical.) This is assuming it's not sucking air at the filter.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Transmission _very_ sluggish [message #233944 is a reply to message #233779] |
Wed, 25 December 2013 00:44 |
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Richard RV
Messages: 631
Registered: July 2012
Location: Full-timer for 12 years, ...
Karma: -17
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Senior Member |
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Matt,
"Low level panic"...have you been looking over my shoulder?!  That's exactly what it was. Yer basic, Oh Damn, What Have I Done? It was exactly as people surmised, that I hadn't put in enough fluid. I picked up another gallon of ATF and now the coach is shifting pretty much as it did before (at least on the ten block test drive loop).
I had called Cliff Golby and asked if the remote dipstick was a one-ton dipstick or whether it was GMC Motorhome specific. He confirmed that it is specific and that the stick is already marked correctly for the GMC ATF levels.
I then called Manny (who _is_ a very patient man), and asked about the effect of overfilling ATF. Since I have the vent extended with a piece of hose out to the side frame he said it was no big deal. I had read somewhere, I think it was a post by Bob Drewes, where he cautioned about overfilling and said that a quart too much extra was worse than a quart low, and it didn't have anything to do with starting a fire.
Thanks again to everyone for talking me through the newbie mechanic jitters.
Enjoy the holiday!
take care
Richard
'77 Birchaven TZE...777;
'76 Palm Beach under construction;
‘76 Edgemont waiting its turn
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