Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Bad Day for the GMC?
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| Re: Bad Day for the GMC? [message #233046 is a reply to message #233022] |
Fri, 13 December 2013 20:49   |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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Wife said she heard a rock in a hubcap sound at the gas station, so I looked under there and found the CV boot clamp came off and was now caught inside the boot on one side. So I cut the clamp and pulled it off and out of the joint. Didn't hear the noise driving out of the parking lot, and now I had the passenger side window open so I could hear any noises. 2 stoplights later, less than a mile, made a right turn and heard the noise, so I needed to pull over. GMC was in more of a hurry to pull over and shed the hub/rotor/wheel assembly within seconds. Fortunately was not up to 25 mph when it happened. Right front wobbled, screeched, and then dropped to the ground right as I steered it into the grass. Never did hit the street, so no grinding of the control arm happened and didn't seem to damage it. It did break the caliper mounts off the knuckle, the only thing still holding the assembly in the same neighborhood was the brake hose. Had to cut it to put the mess inside the RV. Almost all of the axle was still there, the very last inch with the nut on it was the only thing missing. Further examination at home revealed that the end had been broken for a LONG time. The break was all smoothed out and polished except for a small area of fresh breakage about the diameter of a pencil. I am going to get some more pics of the break and post them tomorrow. This all happened back on Oct. 26, but that axle was broken most of the way already before we bought the coach back in 2011. Drove it back from Danville like that and didn't even know it! Glad it didn't break coming down route 58 at 50-60 miles an hour. Many thanks to Howard Nielsen for sending me his used axles and knuckles with hubs and rotors to get back on the wheels again.
The worst part was the damage to the fender/body...it was undamaged for 40 years. Now I have to piece it back together with resin and glass and plastic wrap and even if I get it smooth it will still look terrible until I get the coach painted.
I inspected the brakes and steering components in Danville when we bought it, and the axle break would not have been evident even if I had removed the hubcap, and it has stayed together for about 400 miles since then. There is no way to check that part of the axle without pulling the hub out of the knuckle or pulling the axle out from the back, so I have no preventative solution. I did discover that the axle had replaced sometime in the past.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bad Day for the GMC? [message #233070 is a reply to message #233060] |
Sat, 14 December 2013 10:07 |
John Sharpe
Messages: 489
Registered: February 2006
Location: Texas
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| Quote: |
..... Right front wobbled, screeched, and then dropped to the ground right as I steered it into the grass.....
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That hard right turn allowed the axle to come out of the hub. Then all hell broke loose. The axle nut also holds the bearing in place. Surface tension may have been holding the knuckle and hub together, and that tension released and caused the hub to move outward. Sounds like the hub did move out of the knuckle.
Where was the nut and the cotter pin?
John Sharpe
Humble,TX
'78 Eleganza TBI
'89 Spectrum 2000 MPI V-10
'40 Ford Panel Delivery TPI
johnasharpe@gmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bad Day for the GMC? [message #233071 is a reply to message #233070] |
Sat, 14 December 2013 12:28 |
jim kanomata
Messages: 257
Registered: March 2007
Location: fremont,ca
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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We were torquing those nuts to as much as 300 ft.lbs back in the 80's.
That is the result of over torquing.
220 should be good enough.
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bad Day for the GMC? [message #233072 is a reply to message #233071] |
Sat, 14 December 2013 12:40 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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I was thinking that the axle had been placed under large stresses, probably
from over torquing, perhaps by using impact tools. Classic stress related
failure. Axle could have been poorly heat treated resulting in lines of
fracture starting from the intersection of the threaded portion and the
splined portion. I can not see the radius cut at that intersection in your
picture, so it is hard to be precise. Also could be fatigue failure (age
related).
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 10:28 AM, jim kanomata
<jimk@appliedairfilters.com>wrote:
>
>
> We were torquing those nuts to as much as 300 ft.lbs back in the 80's.
> That is the result of over torquing.
> 220 should be good enough.
> --
> Applied/GMC, Fremont, CA
> 1-800-752-7502
> jimk@appliedgmc.com
> www.appliedgmc.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bad Day for the GMC? [message #233073 is a reply to message #233060] |
Sat, 14 December 2013 13:57 |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Yeah Gene, that's the right album. John, it wasn't really a hard turn, made a wide turn like I always do when driving to avoid excess twisting on the rear wheels. The bearing actually came apart and left the outer races in the knuckle, only the inner races were left on the hub. This happened on the second voyage after I installed 1.5 inch spacers on the front wheels and I first thought that was the cause, until I examined the broken axle tip. The nut was still cotter pinned to the broken off axle end, that and the washer were retained by the small hub cap, so I didn't lose them. I reused them on the axle that Howard sent me.
Jim, I had never even taken the hub cap off and messed with that nut because there were no problems until that day. If I had tried to test the torque on it beforehand, I'm sure I would have broken the axle tip off right here in the driveway. Incidentally, the manual says that the torque on that nut should be 110 ft.lbs and not to exceed 250 ft.lbs to make the cotter pin hole line up. When I put it back together I ended up at 160 ft.lbs to make the cotter pin line up. Driving it now I can hear the sound of a tight bearing or a tire binding due to misalignment, so I am not satisfied with my repair yet. Howards rotor was too thin to machine the rust off and reuse for a good repair, so I decided to replace it with my rotor, which was still thick (it had been replaced before, apparently). When I went to pull the bearing off, it broke the puller I had borrowed, so I had to cut it off and replace it with a new one from NAPA ($135). I took the other side apart to inspect it and grease the bearing, which I found a way to do without taking the bearing off of the hub (I used a grease needle to inject the grease in between the rollers). I'm glad I took that one apart because the inner seal was installed with half of the lip folded over and so it would have given me a problem later, probably somewhere in Arizona on a lonely highway. If it ever stops raining and other people stop breaking stuff for me to fix, I'll jack the front end on the suspension and loosen that nut, run the wheels with no load, and retorque the nut to see if the bearing noise goes away. The angle of the steering wheel never changed(it was always off about 30 degrees when driving straight ahead), and there is no pull when driving, but I can see the camber angle is in at the top of the wheel. Did not notice that before. This may change after I install the torsion bar that Chuck Boyd sent me and raise the front end up about 2 inches. The right pork chop was already adjusted all the way up and the bar is curved when it's loaded, and I don't like that, so changes are in the works as soon as the weather cooperates.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bad Day for the GMC? [message #233077 is a reply to message #233075] |
Sat, 14 December 2013 14:43 |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Yeah, Howard sold me the parts cheaper than the shipping to get them here, and I went that route because it was immobilized on jack stands right off the tow truck. When I said a thousand, I included the towing, the used parts, the new grease, the shipping, the new bearing, new brake hoses(I think I bought 2 so I would have a spare),new CV boot clamps(Dorman #03644 from Autozone), $18 package of stainless steel tie straps from NAPA(which DO NOT work on CV boots),replacing the puller I broke, and the torsion bar, which really wasn't part of the ordeal. I think it was $907 before adding $100 for the bar. If I had made it to California and broke down there I would have camped out and found a way to afford the whole new front end. I would have really liked to have the larger brakes and sealed bearings.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bad Day for the GMC? [message #233080 is a reply to message #233079] |
Sat, 14 December 2013 15:33 |
John Sharpe
Messages: 489
Registered: February 2006
Location: Texas
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| Quote: |
....John, it wasn't really a hard turn, made a wide turn like I always do when driving to avoid excess twisting on the rear wheels.......
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I did not mean to insinuate in anyway that there was improper operation of the coach. The point I was trying to convey was that on a turn, the inside wheel turns a lot more than the outside wheel. This results in more stress on the retainer than other maneuvers.
John Sharpe
Humble,TX
'78 Eleganza TBI
'89 Spectrum 2000 MPI V-10
'40 Ford Panel Delivery TPI
johnasharpe@gmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bad Day for the GMC? [message #233082 is a reply to message #233080] |
Sat, 14 December 2013 16:37 |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Oh, no insinuation taken John, you're correct about the stresses during cornering. In fact I probably broke that last bit of remaining axle during parking lot maneuvers at the grocery store with their damn speed bumps right in the middle of an intersection(what idiocy!). Wife walked from the store to the gas station and that's when she heard the axle end rolling around inside the hubcap and told me about it. After fueling I crawled under there and saw the CV boot clamp dangling and thought that was what she heard, and I took it off. Less than a mile later I heard it through the open window and then we were aground in about 500 feet.
I see people all the time steering without rolling in parking maneuvers and know that they have no idea of the forces they are putting on the steering components...and wish I was teaching driver education!
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bad Day for the GMC? [message #233089 is a reply to message #233082] |
Sat, 14 December 2013 17:45 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Terry,
I agree with you that the forces on steering components is higher when you turn the steering wheel when the vehicle is stationary,
however, I'd be willing to bet dollars against donuts that the automotive engineers that design steering systems take those loads
into consideration when they design the system.
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
-----Original Message-----
From: Terry
Oh, no insinuation taken John, you're correct about the stresses during cornering. In fact I probably broke that last bit of
remaining axle during parking lot maneuvers at the grocery store with their damn speed bumps right in the middle of an
intersection(what idiocy!). Wife walked from the store to the gas station and that's when she heard the axle end rolling around
inside the hubcap and told me about it. After fueling I crawled under there and saw the CV boot clamp dangling and thought that was
what she heard, and I took it off. Less than a mile later I heard it through the open window and then we were aground in about 500
feet.
I see people all the time steering without rolling in parking maneuvers and know that they have no idea of the forces they are
putting on the steering components...and wish I was teaching driver education!
--
Terry
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bad Day for the GMC? [message #233094 is a reply to message #233077] |
Sat, 14 December 2013 20:10 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Terry the Napa #s for the CV boot clamps are:
Large PUJ 3416
Small PUJ 3415
On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 1:43 PM, Terry <mrbullitt@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
> Yeah, Howard sold me the parts cheaper than the shipping to get them here,
> and I went that route because it was immobilized on jack stands right off
> the tow truck. When I said a thousand, I included the towing, the used
> parts, the new grease, the shipping, the new bearing, new brake hoses(I
> think I bought 2 so I would have a spare),new CV boot clamps(Dorman #03644
> from Autozone), $18 package of stainless steel tie straps from NAPA(which
> DO NOT work on CV boots),replacing the puller I broke, and the torsion bar,
> which really wasn't part of the ordeal. I think it was $907 before adding
> $100 for the bar. If I had made it to California and broke down there I
> would have camped out and found a way to afford the whole new front end. I
> would have really liked to have the larger brakes and sealed bearings.
> --
> Terry Kelpien
> 73 Glacier 260
> Smithfield, Va.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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