| Ignition / ACC Switch Issues [message #232280] |
Thu, 05 December 2013 10:29  |
Clark76
Messages: 62
Registered: February 2010
Karma: -2
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PROBLEM:
All the accessories on the ACC Buss Bar periodically go OFF (Heater fan, Radio, Washer, AirBag Pump, etc.) This has happened when driving, or sometimes do not turn on when starting the engine, sometimes they mysteriously sometimes they come back ON.
76 Glenbrook, OEM Tilt Steering Column, Generator and Battery Test good, all fuses good.
PROBABLE ISSUE:
A)Ignition Key
B)Ignition Linkage
C)Ignition Switch on lower steering Column.
QUESTION:
What is the best way to isolate and test this intermittent problem?
Is this likely a clean and adjust/repair or start fresh and replace parts (Key,Linkage, Switch)?
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| Re: Ignition / ACC Switch Issues [message #232295 is a reply to message #232280] |
Thu, 05 December 2013 11:58  |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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The easy first step is to replace the ignition switch. It is mounted on the bottom of the steering column near the firewall. If that does not fix it, you need to pull the column apart and look at the key mechanism.
Both are easy to work on and the inexpensive parts are available at AutoZone or your favorite auto parts store. The switch is a 15 minute replacement job. If you get into replacing the key mechanism the steering wheel needs to be removed. You can borrow the steering wheel puller for free from AZ.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ignition / ACC Switch Issues [message #232310 is a reply to message #232280] |
Thu, 05 December 2013 14:53 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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I would replace the ignition switch mounted on the top of the steering column under the dash. There is a coat hanger sized rod coming out of the top of the steering column running down the top of the column tube, follow it to the ignition switch. Part number is a (Borg Warner CS-83 or standard US105. Just replace it, if that's not it (probably is) still you have updated the 30+ year old part with a new one which can't be a bad thing!
Hope this helps,
Jim Bounds
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________________________________
From: Southmayd <wsouthmayd@aol.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2013 11:29 AM
Subject: [GMCnet] Ignition / ACC Switch Issues
PROBLEM:
All the accessories on the ACC Buss Bar periodically go OFF (Heater fan, Radio, Washer, AirBag Pump, etc.) This has happened when driving, or sometimes do not turn on when starting the engine, sometimes they mysteriously sometimes they come back ON.
76 Glenbrook, OEM Tilt Steering Column, Generator and Battery Test good, all fuses good.
PROBABLE ISSUE:
A)Ignition Key
B)Ignition Linkage
C)Ignition Switch on lower steering Column.
QUESTION:
What is the best way to isolate and test this intermittent problem?
Is this likely a clean and adjust/repair or start fresh and replace parts (Key,Linkage, Switch)?
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| Re: Ignition / ACC Switch Issues [message #232313 is a reply to message #232295] |
Thu, 05 December 2013 15:08 |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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It is not the key or the lock cylinder if you can turn it to the start and run position. Start at the actual switch down on the column and check for switched power on the brown wire with a test light. Usually GM switched power was yellow wires, but the schematic for my 73 says it's brown. Twist the key back and forth in the run position while checking for power. The next place after that should be the accessory bus, according to the schematic. There are also branches from the ignition switch accessory wire to the alternator and the air compressor. The most likely culprit is going to be the ignition switch, the key mechanism just transfers twisting motion to a rod that actuates the switch further down the column.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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| Re: Ignition / ACC Switch Issues [message #232321 is a reply to message #232313] |
Thu, 05 December 2013 15:58 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| Bullitthead wrote on Thu, 05 December 2013 15:08 |
It is not the key or the lock cylinder if you can turn it to the start and run position. Start at the actual switch down on the column and check for switched power on the brown wire with a test light. Usually GM switched power was yellow wires, but the schematic for my 73 says it's brown. Twist the key back and forth in the run position while checking for power. The next place after that should be the accessory bus, according to the schematic. There are also branches from the ignition switch accessory wire to the alternator and the air compressor. The most likely culprit is going to be the ignition switch, the key mechanism just transfers twisting motion to a rod that actuates the switch further down the column.
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I can be the key assembly. I had one that was badly worn causing a similar problem to his. Replacing the key assemble fixed my problem about 8 years ago. In his case I would try replacing the switch first.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Ignition / ACC Switch Issues [message #232324 is a reply to message #232321] |
Thu, 05 December 2013 16:31 |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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I have replaced many of the gear racks in the GM style columns, mostly in Jeeps, they are just made of pot metal and they break where the semicircle end connects to the rack gear. This is on the tilt column. Usually the problem manifests itself as not being able to crank the engine, but two customers could not turn theirs off! One was really fortunate he didn't blow the alternator regulator when he disconnected the battery to get it shut down, I think it only shut down because it was fuel injected and he had the headlights and blower on when he pulled the cable. That was an automatic tranny. The other customer was able to stall the engine with the clutch and then disconnect the battery.
I guess my point was that if the key turns it's full range of motion, then the lock cylinder is doing it's job. But you are correct; if the tab breaks off the end of the lock cylinder it will not turn the gear that moves the rack that operates the switch further down the column. Had that a few times too, but those lock cylinders would not crank the engine.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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| Re: Ignition / ACC Switch Issues [message #232325 is a reply to message #232321] |
Thu, 05 December 2013 16:35 |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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Hey Ken, where is the accessory buss bar anyway? I do not see it in my 73, only on the schematic. Is just a label for the common terminals in the fuse block or is there an actual buss bar hidden somewhere?
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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| Re: Ignition / ACC Switch Issues [message #232366 is a reply to message #232325] |
Thu, 05 December 2013 20:41 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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| Bullitthead wrote on Thu, 05 December 2013 16:35 |
Hey Ken, where is the accessory buss bar anyway? I do not see it in my 73, only on the schematic. Is just a label for the common terminals in the fuse block or is there an actual buss bar hidden somewhere?
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It is part of the fuse block.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: Ignition / ACC Switch Issues [message #233389 is a reply to message #232417] |
Wed, 18 December 2013 09:10 |
Clark76
Messages: 62
Registered: February 2010
Karma: -2
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SUCCESS !
FOLLOW-UP and Re-Cap from the originator of this string.
I was able to find the ignition starter switch at Advanced Auto parts, Duralast Part number LS309.
After removing my lower array of gauges, it was an easy job to remove the two screws holding the switch to the lower steering column, and then lift the switch off of the Rod Linkage that goes up to the ignition key. The two plastic plugs that plug into the switch were fairly tight but after pressing in the tabs and gently using a flat head screw-driver to help pry out the plugs they came out fine.
The #12 Brown wire http://www.bdub.net/wirediagrams/75-engine-HEI.pdf that goes from the switch to the ACC BUS bar had shown signs of heat in the plastic plug on the ignition starter switch. It was warped and slightly melted on one side. Clearly a lot of amps had gone through this connection, and hence the likely reason for my problems. The wire and wire end however looked in good shape. I did wire brush them to clean them up a bit before re-installing it.
Due to the excess heat on this wire, I did do some additional re-wiring with regard to my air compressor. Two years ago, I had removed the OEM Dana Compressor and replaced it with a new Thomas Compressor. I have a slow leak in my system and the air bags will go down over two weeks if not maintained. As a consequence, the pump runs for a fair amount of time when re-pressuring up the air-bags and I did notice that the wires near the pump and on the pressure switch on the tank did get quite warm.
Now, I have installed a RELAY below the windshield wipers with the Power coming from the Battery post via a #10 wire and 30 Amp Breaker to the relay then to the Thomas Pump. The low Voltage relay wire goes through the air tank pressure switch and fire-wall to a on/off toggle switch on my dash and then to the ACC Bus Bar with a 10 Amp fuse. (Lower Amps inside, higher Amps outside)
Everything seems to be working well.
The only thing I have not done yet is to replace the ALT Light Circuit Rewire as suggested by Jim Bounds.
http://www.gmccoop.com/alt__light_circuit_refit.htm
Sounds like it is a good idea. Another day another project.
Clark76
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| Re: Ignition / ACC Switch Issues [message #233391 is a reply to message #233389] |
Wed, 18 December 2013 09:32 |
gbarrow2
Messages: 765
Registered: February 2004
Location: Lake Almanor, Ca./ Red Bl...
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Clark76,
Do the Jim Bounds alt circuit rewire or install Gene Fisher's APC asap.
It's much easier to do in your driveway than on the side of the road in the dark AFTER you experience the Smoking Dash Syndrome.
Gene Barrow
Lake Almanor, Ca.
1976 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ignition / ACC Switch Issues [message #233398 is a reply to message #233395] |
Wed, 18 December 2013 11:00 |
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Richard RV
Messages: 631
Registered: July 2012
Location: Full-timer for 12 years, ...
Karma: -17
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Senior Member |
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| Mr ERFisher wrote on Wed, 18 December 2013 09:47 |
No.
The cable is enough
And can be removed for testing
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Gene, do you mean the APC cable can be removed to test it, or the APC cable is removed to test the alternator?
Richard
'77 Birchaven TZE...777;
'76 Palm Beach under construction;
‘76 Edgemont waiting its turn
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ignition / ACC Switch Issues [message #233400 is a reply to message #233398] |
Wed, 18 December 2013 11:09 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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when things go wrong
-alternator
-current leaks
-slow start of Alternator
-alternator light
-what ever,
it is always a question what is wrong.
and being able to remove a component is useful
changes made to OEM, are always questioned first.
I have had -NO- problems with the APC cable
gene
On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 9:00 AM, Richard <GMC77Birchaven@yahoo.com> wrote:
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> Mr ERFisher wrote on Wed, 18 December 2013 09:47
> > No.
> > The cable is enough
> > And can be removed for testing
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> Gene, do you mean the APC cable can be removed to test it, or the APC
> cable is removed to test the alternator?
>
> Richard
> --
> '77 Birchaven TZE...777
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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