Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Fwd: your steering problem
| [GMCnet] Fwd: your steering problem [message #232201] |
Wed, 04 December 2013 13:07  |
Emery Stora
Messages: 959
Registered: January 2011
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Back in last January there were many posts answering Brian who had complained about his steering problems.
Many of you gave him advice. It is not clear to me if he followed any of the advice. People who posted replies were me, Collie, Henderso, Stouffer, Boyd, Hupy, Mueller, Ferguson, Lachowitz, Pinkerton, and Wright and some others.
There was a lot of good advice from some very knowledgable people that should have given Brian enough information to solve his problem. I hate to see him just give up on the problem.
Unfortunately he seems to now feel (incorrectly) that the steering of the GMC motorhome was just a "bad design" by GM.
In Jan. he said he lived near near Winnipeg Manitoba Canada. Is there anyone in that area that might be able to give his some assistance?
Emery Stora
Begin forwarded message:
> From: Emery Stora <emerystora@me.com>
> Subject: Re: your steering problem
> Date: December 4, 2013 4:37:11 AM MST
> To: Brian Waddell <sperline1@hotmail.com>
>
> I thought your name looked familiar. I checked the GMCnet archives and see that last. January there we a couple of dozen replies to you problem from some very knowledgable people. Did you follow up on their advice? I had also responded to you back then.
>
> You do not have a design problem. Something has changed over the years. There are many, many GMCs on the road that steer very well, including mine.
>
> I personally would start with the steering box.
>
> Emery Stora
>
> On Dec 3, 2013, at 10:27 PM, Brian Waddell <sperline1@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> i believe that is the hydraulic cyl for power steering and not a steering damoener oe shock....brian 77 ele 455....tomorrow when I am home i will investigate this further.....I quit working on this motorhome last summer when I could not get it to steer properly.....77 ele 455 ps ...if it left the factory with steering like this one has they should never have been allowed on the roads
>>
>>
No, that is definitely the dampener. The GMC Motorhome does not use a hydraulic cylinder for steering. Do you see any hydraulic lines in the pictures?
It didn't "leave the factory that way". Over time parts have worn or become out of alignment if you are experiencing poor steering. Check your power steering box (that is the part at the end of the steering column with the hydraulic lines from the power steering pump.). Also check the relay arm, tie rod ends and other linkages for looseness and wear. Poor steering can also be caused by bad alignment of the 4 rear wheels.
Where do you live? I might be able to refer you to someone for help.
Emery Stora
On Dec 3, 2013, at 10:27 PM, Brian Waddell <sperline1@hotmail.com> wrote:
> i believe that is the hydraulic cyl for power steering and not a steering damoener oe shock....brian 77 ele 455....tomorrow when I am home i will investigate this further.....I quit working on this motorhome last summer when I could not get it to steer properly.....77 ele 455 ps ...if it left the factory with steering like this one has they should never have been allowed on the roads
>
> > From: emerystora@me.com
> > Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2013 16:22:33 -0700
> > Subject: pages from assembly manual
> > To: sperline1@hotmail.com
> >
> > Here you go:
> >
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fwd: your steering problem [message #232248 is a reply to message #232201] |
Wed, 04 December 2013 22:24  |
Brian Waddell
Messages: 409
Registered: March 2010
Karma: -4
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Senior Member |
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hi emery....we met once...rapid city...you sold me a couple,of cans of duracool....i had driven there with a little blue rangerand got hell for parking on the road of the rv park with two wheels on the grass.
I have spent a lOt of time and money trying to get the mh to steer properly...alignment shops x 3....different mechanics....different drivers...the consensus is that this is how they steer....If this is how they steer they are a danger on the road.
I have about 10 maybe 12 vehicles here on the farm,the old ones with lots of miles all steer just fine...71 INT...71 dodge..76 chev..those are 3t trucks...one half tons.71 chev 91 ford,,94 gmc 2011 gmc...they all steer fine.....72 gto 65 caddilaC 59 RAMBLER STEER FINE....old semis steer fine...wife car steers fine..Me nor the mechaics can find no worn front end parts...I replaced the relay arm(the cheaper one of the 2) and uper inside and outside bushings withe the offset ones....it has new tires and alcoas .spacers....eveying in the front end tightened to specs....the sreering columm removed and lubed including the steering cv joint. the back bogies measure to be correctly in line, new bearings also. MH has 56000 documented miles...The last time I worked on the problem you guys on this net said I should change the steering box..I never did this as I was going to investigate the 1 ton system and see what all came withe the one ton conversion...well it is winter here now and
I said I would work on it this winter....I will be talking to the jims and maybe Lentz.
Emery ...you are right,of cource,about that steering damper or shock...I don;t know why I never replaced that.nor why I thought it was a hyd steering cyl..will now replace
Summer befor I quit working on the mh when it would not rev below 1700 rpm...me. my friend s nor hired mechanic could figure out the problem....that winter I found the problem...new patterson system has a bad modurator(sp)?....thanks to you and everyone for all your help....brian 77 ele 455 ...driven it since I have owned it maybe 40 miles...owned it 14 years...went on a holiday to my mother in laws in calif...saw it in front of a house in riverside for sale ..motor knocking...bought it shipped it home...fixed that motor and everything else, first name basis with the jims,CANT steer it brian....sorry for the ramble...still brian 77 ele 455 south of winnipeg near US border...100 miles north of grand forks ND
> From: emerystora@me.com
> Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 12:07:13 -0700
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: [GMCnet] Fwd: your steering problem
>
> Back in last January there were many posts answering Brian who had complained about his steering problems.
> Many of you gave him advice. It is not clear to me if he followed any of the advice. People who posted replies were me, Collie, Henderso, Stouffer, Boyd, Hupy, Mueller, Ferguson, Lachowitz, Pinkerton, and Wright and some others.
>
> There was a lot of good advice from some very knowledgable people that should have given Brian enough information to solve his problem. I hate to see him just give up on the problem.
>
> Unfortunately he seems to now feel (incorrectly) that the steering of the GMC motorhome was just a "bad design" by GM.
>
> In Jan. he said he lived near near Winnipeg Manitoba Canada. Is there anyone in that area that might be able to give his some assistance?
>
> Emery Stora
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> > From: Emery Stora <emerystora@me.com>
> > Subject: Re: your steering problem
> > Date: December 4, 2013 4:37:11 AM MST
> > To: Brian Waddell <sperline1@hotmail.com>
> >
> > I thought your name looked familiar. I checked the GMCnet archives and see that last. January there we a couple of dozen replies to you problem from some very knowledgable people. Did you follow up on their advice? I had also responded to you back then.
> >
> > You do not have a design problem. Something has changed over the years. There are many, many GMCs on the road that steer very well, including mine.
> >
> > I personally would start with the steering box.
> >
> > Emery Stora
> >
> > On Dec 3, 2013, at 10:27 PM, Brian Waddell <sperline1@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> i believe that is the hydraulic cyl for power steering and not a steering damoener oe shock....brian 77 ele 455....tomorrow when I am home i will investigate this further.....I quit working on this motorhome last summer when I could not get it to steer properly.....77 ele 455 ps ...if it left the factory with steering like this one has they should never have been allowed on the roads
> >>
> >>
>
> No, that is definitely the dampener. The GMC Motorhome does not use a hydraulic cylinder for steering. Do you see any hydraulic lines in the pictures?
>
> It didn't "leave the factory that way". Over time parts have worn or become out of alignment if you are experiencing poor steering. Check your power steering box (that is the part at the end of the steering column with the hydraulic lines from the power steering pump.). Also check the relay arm, tie rod ends and other linkages for looseness and wear. Poor steering can also be caused by bad alignment of the 4 rear wheels.
>
> Where do you live? I might be able to refer you to someone for help.
>
> Emery Stora
>
> On Dec 3, 2013, at 10:27 PM, Brian Waddell <sperline1@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > i believe that is the hydraulic cyl for power steering and not a steering damoener oe shock....brian 77 ele 455....tomorrow when I am home i will investigate this further.....I quit working on this motorhome last summer when I could not get it to steer properly.....77 ele 455 ps ...if it left the factory with steering like this one has they should never have been allowed on the roads
> >
> > > From: emerystora@me.com
> > > Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2013 16:22:33 -0700
> > > Subject: pages from assembly manual
> > > To: sperline1@hotmail.com
> > >
> > > Here you go:
> > >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fwd: your steering problem [message #232255 is a reply to message #232254] |
Thu, 05 December 2013 00:20 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Brian, Please humor an old mechanic that has fought many of the same
battles that you are currently fighting. 1. Check all three of your engine
mounts. Pay particular attention to the front one. If you are having torque
steer problems, this is a huge contributor to it, and one that is most
often overlooked. 2. Wheel spacers are also known to contribute to it. You
can prove it to yourself, remove them and drive the coach and see if it
changes anything. Be analytical, change only one thing at a time, and
note the differences if any. There is a solution to your problem. Do not
let the buggers see you sweat. (grin)
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 Gmc Royale 403
On Dec 4, 2013 10:01 PM, "Brian Waddell" <sperline1@hotmail.com> wrote:
> ride height is correct...no slop in bogey pins...nothing bent...did a lot
> of measurin followed mueller plans and jerry work write up on
> allignments...thank you for your input...thinking I am going with the new
> steering box and 1ton front end this winter...just pisses me off as I spent
> wayyyyyyyto much time and money already on this....thing...btian 77 ele 455
>
> > To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> > From: markbb1@netzero.com
> > Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 23:42:38 -0600
> > Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Fwd: your steering problem
> >
> >
> >
> > Brian Waddell wrote on Wed, 04 December 2013 22:24
> > > hi emery...CANT steer it brian....sorry for the ramble...still brian
> 77 ele 455 south of winnipeg near US border...100 miles north of grand
> forks ND
> > Its not always the front end that makes it hard to handle. Ride height
> AND MORE IMPORTANTLY weight distribution can cause what you describe.
> >
> > Check the weight on each "axel". You might find that all the weight is
> being carried on the right front and left rear, or left front and right
> rear (diagonal "axels").
> >
> > Other than that, there might be excessive slop in the bogey pins, or one
> or more bent swing arms. The ones pointing forward take a pretty good
> beating anytime it hits a pothole or runs against a curb or whatever.
> > --
> > '73 23' Sequoia For Sale
> > '73 23' CanyonLands For Sale
> > UA (Upper Alabama)
> > CanyonLands most likely for a parts coach. Sequoia being restored to
> service.
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fwd: your steering problem [message #232262 is a reply to message #232255] |
Thu, 05 December 2013 06:28 |
skip2
Messages: 544
Registered: September 2011
Location: Winter Haven,FL (center o...
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Could you explain how bad motor mounts can cause a torque steer problem, no way am I disputing it, just want to understand the physics involved. Enquiring minds want to know.
Skip Hartline
74 Canyon Lands, FiTech,
3.7 FD LSD, Manny Tranny,
Springfield Distributor,
2001 Chevy Tracker Ragtop Towd
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fwd: your steering problem [message #232279 is a reply to message #232273] |
Thu, 05 December 2013 10:24 |
Otterwan
Messages: 946
Registered: July 2013
Location: Lynnwood (north of Seattl...
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I had a 1969 Chevelle that I put new front springs in. Went with the stiffest spring I could find, as I planned to eventually replace the 307 with a 396. Made the car nearly undrivable. The front suspension hardly moved while the back moved normally, and the car was all over the road. We called it "power assisted wander"
Anyway, maybe missadjusted or damaged torsion bars causing the steering problem? Just a thought.
FWIW my totally stock 1976 Royale drives like a dream. Nice and smooth, no wander.
1977 Birchaven, Lynnwood WA - "We may not be able to stop all evil in the world, but I know that how we treat one another is entirely up to us."
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fwd: your steering problem [message #232281 is a reply to message #232201] |
Thu, 05 December 2013 10:27 |
 |
hnielsen2
Messages: 1434
Registered: February 2004
Location: Alpine CA
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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David
Good point.
Howard
Alpine Ca
74 Canyon Lands
Who has never had a steering problem.
All is well with my Lord
> On Dec 5, 2013, at 8:24, David Orders <dao@oarsllc.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> I had a 1969 Chevelle that I put new front springs in. Went with the stiffest spring I could find, as I planned to eventually replace the 307 with a 396. Made the car nearly undrivable. The front suspension hardly moved while the back moved normally, and the car was all over the road. We called it "power assisted wander"
>
> Anyway, maybe missadjusted or damaged torsion bars causing the steering problem? Just a thought.
>
> FWIW my totally stock 1976 Royale drives like a dream. Nice and smooth, no wander.
> --
> 1976 Royale "Twinkie II", 1978 Palm Beach with front end fire. Lynnwood WA - “If you could reason with religious people there would be no religious people” - House, MD
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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All is well with my Lord
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fwd: your steering problem [message #232335 is a reply to message #232255] |
Thu, 05 December 2013 18:11 |
Brian Waddell
Messages: 409
Registered: March 2010
Karma: -4
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Senior Member |
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OK...will follow your advice...problem is ...in the winter I will not take the thing out of the shop
so can not test drive each change like the spacers,,,,wil check the motor mounts although I installed the engin and trans and rad and ac and intake and carb and whatever else and followed the maintenance manual torque values ...member thinking at the time I should probably get a new front engine mount...rubber a bit detiorated but not so bad,,,thanks for you input....i do not have torque steer issues that I know of,,,,it just wanders badly ...like as you turn the wheel if you are on one side of a lane and want to move left side of lane..you turn it more because it is not coming over then it comes but too much and it is back and forth like that...
> Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 22:20:19 -0800
> From: jamesh1296@gmail.com
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Fwd: your steering problem
>
> Brian, Please humor an old mechanic that has fought many of the same
> battles that you are currently fighting. 1. Check all three of your engine
> mounts. Pay particular attention to the front one. If you are having torque
> steer problems, this is a huge contributor to it, and one that is most
> often overlooked. 2. Wheel spacers are also known to contribute to it. You
> can prove it to yourself, remove them and drive the coach and see if it
> changes anything. Be analytical, change only one thing at a time, and
> note the differences if any. There is a solution to your problem. Do not
> let the buggers see you sweat. (grin)
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Or
> 78 Gmc Royale 403
> On Dec 4, 2013 10:01 PM, "Brian Waddell" <sperline1@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > ride height is correct...no slop in bogey pins...nothing bent...did a lot
> > of measurin followed mueller plans and jerry work write up on
> > allignments...thank you for your input...thinking I am going with the new
> > steering box and 1ton front end this winter...just pisses me off as I spent
> > wayyyyyyyto much time and money already on this....thing...btian 77 ele 455
> >
> > > To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> > > From: markbb1@netzero.com
> > > Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 23:42:38 -0600
> > > Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Fwd: your steering problem
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Brian Waddell wrote on Wed, 04 December 2013 22:24
> > > > hi emery...CANT steer it brian....sorry for the ramble...still brian
> > 77 ele 455 south of winnipeg near US border...100 miles north of grand
> > forks ND
> > > Its not always the front end that makes it hard to handle. Ride height
> > AND MORE IMPORTANTLY weight distribution can cause what you describe.
> > >
> > > Check the weight on each "axel". You might find that all the weight is
> > being carried on the right front and left rear, or left front and right
> > rear (diagonal "axels").
> > >
> > > Other than that, there might be excessive slop in the bogey pins, or one
> > or more bent swing arms. The ones pointing forward take a pretty good
> > beating anytime it hits a pothole or runs against a curb or whatever.
> > > --
> > > '73 23' Sequoia For Sale
> > > '73 23' CanyonLands For Sale
> > > UA (Upper Alabama)
> > > CanyonLands most likely for a parts coach. Sequoia being restored to
> > service.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
> _______________________________________________
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> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fwd: your steering problem [message #232342 is a reply to message #232335] |
Thu, 05 December 2013 18:24 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
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That sounds like it could be steering box or steering linkage.
Todd Sullivan
Sully
77 royale
Seattle
> On Dec 5, 2013, at 4:11 PM, Brian Waddell <sperline1@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> OK...will follow your advice...problem is ...in the winter I will not take the thing out of the shop
> so can not test drive each change like the spacers,,,,wil check the motor mounts although I installed the engin and trans and rad and ac and intake and carb and whatever else and followed the maintenance manual torque values ...member thinking at the time I should probably get a new front engine mount...rubber a bit detiorated but not so bad,,,thanks for you input....i do not have torque steer issues that I know of,,,,it just wanders badly ...like as you turn the wheel if you are on one side of a lane and want to move left side of lane..you turn it more because it is not coming over then it comes but too much and it is back and forth like that...
>
>> Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 22:20:19 -0800
>> From: jamesh1296@gmail.com
>> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Fwd: your steering problem
>>
>> Brian, Please humor an old mechanic that has fought many of the same
>> battles that you are currently fighting. 1. Check all three of your engine
>> mounts. Pay particular attention to the front one. If you are having torque
>> steer problems, this is a huge contributor to it, and one that is most
>> often overlooked. 2. Wheel spacers are also known to contribute to it. You
>> can prove it to yourself, remove them and drive the coach and see if it
>> changes anything. Be analytical, change only one thing at a time, and
>> note the differences if any. There is a solution to your problem. Do not
>> let the buggers see you sweat. (grin)
>> Jim Hupy
>> Salem, Or
>> 78 Gmc Royale 403
>>> On Dec 4, 2013 10:01 PM, "Brian Waddell" <sperline1@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> ride height is correct...no slop in bogey pins...nothing bent...did a lot
>>> of measurin followed mueller plans and jerry work write up on
>>> allignments...thank you for your input...thinking I am going with the new
>>> steering box and 1ton front end this winter...just pisses me off as I spent
>>> wayyyyyyyto much time and money already on this....thing...btian 77 ele 455
>>>
>>>> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
>>>> From: markbb1@netzero.com
>>>> Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 23:42:38 -0600
>>>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Fwd: your steering problem
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Brian Waddell wrote on Wed, 04 December 2013 22:24
>>>>> hi emery...CANT steer it brian....sorry for the ramble...still brian
>>> 77 ele 455 south of winnipeg near US border...100 miles north of grand
>>> forks ND
>>>> Its not always the front end that makes it hard to handle. Ride height
>>> AND MORE IMPORTANTLY weight distribution can cause what you describe.
>>>>
>>>> Check the weight on each "axel". You might find that all the weight is
>>> being carried on the right front and left rear, or left front and right
>>> rear (diagonal "axels").
>>>>
>>>> Other than that, there might be excessive slop in the bogey pins, or one
>>> or more bent swing arms. The ones pointing forward take a pretty good
>>> beating anytime it hits a pothole or runs against a curb or whatever.
>>>> --
>>>> '73 23' Sequoia For Sale
>>>> '73 23' CanyonLands For Sale
>>>> UA (Upper Alabama)
>>>> CanyonLands most likely for a parts coach. Sequoia being restored to
>>> service.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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