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Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Dropped the tanks off at the radiator place...
[GMCnet] Dropped the tanks off at the radiator place... [message #231303] Tue, 26 November 2013 08:17 Go to next message
Robin Hood is currently offline  Robin Hood   United States
Messages: 1078
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 3
Senior Member
Came in to work late today. I'll stay late so I don't have to burn any
leave.

Heh heh. He said "burn". I positively REEK of gasoline right now.

My wife helped me dump the collected rainwater out of the gas tanks (really
should have stood them up against something instead of just letting them
lay flat during the biggest winter storm in forever) into the wash tub. I
filled a five gallon DOT approved gas can by dunking it into the tub, but
the tub was refilled by the rainwater we dumped out of the tanks. I have no
idea how two and a half gallons worth of rain can go through the sender
hole, but whatever. The important thing is that I didn't wantonly and
recklessly pollute the area with fuel spillage or contaminated water.

I merely NEGLIGENTLY did, at worst. Arguably, one can even say that I took
reasonable prrecautions. I mean, I don't want to hurt my wife's flowers or
kill off the fish in the neighborhood pond. Very little fuel or
contaminated water wound up on the ground.

Some did, however, and it got soaked up by my stylisly long blue-jeans. I
mean, the driveway was awash with rain, and any fuel just sort of sat on
top of the puddles, and it got all into my shoes and socks and britches
legs.

I am not very good at this.

However, we pressed on. Dana didn't have a single cross word to say,
despite being woken up on a gray rainy cold November day and put out in the
rain to help me get these fuel tanks loaded into my Subaru Outback. It
reeks of gas now too.

I drove to the bad part of town, which is located just a few minutes from
my office, and dropped off the tanks. They'll clean them up and reline
them. They're gpoing to call me with the overall price. I suspect I had
better pay it, whatever it is.

And get my wife a happy of some sort.

--
Robin Hood
Jackson, MS
2013 Subaru Outback "Top Flight"
1968 Pontiac Catalina "The Cheshire Cat"
1978 GMC Royale motorhome "Pinto Bean"
1977 GMC Palm Beach motorhome "Barn Queen"
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Re: [GMCnet] Dropped the tanks off at the radiator place... [message #231305 is a reply to message #231303] Tue, 26 November 2013 08:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott cowden is currently offline  scott cowden   United States
Messages: 170
Registered: February 2004
Karma: 0
Senior Member
For what it's worth, I think you made the right decision taking it to a pro shop. I've cleaned out other tanks in the past but the GMC tanks' shape really makes a good job almost impossible without being able to cut it open and blast it clean. That's beyond most guys capabilities.

The mess in the driveway now is only a fraction of what it would have been had you tried to clean them there.

Good luck.

Scott
'74 x-Glacier
Newmarket ON

> Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 08:17:42 -0600
> From: loxley@gmail.com
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: [GMCnet] Dropped the tanks off at the radiator place...
>
> Came in to work late today. I'll stay late so I don't have to burn any
> leave.
>
> Heh heh. He said "burn". I positively REEK of gasoline right now.
>
> My wife helped me dump the collected rainwater out of the gas tanks (really
> should have stood them up against something instead of just letting them
> lay flat during the biggest winter storm in forever) into the wash tub. I
> filled a five gallon DOT approved gas can by dunking it into the tub, but
> the tub was refilled by the rainwater we dumped out of the tanks. I have no
> idea how two and a half gallons worth of rain can go through the sender
> hole, but whatever. The important thing is that I didn't wantonly and
> recklessly pollute the area with fuel spillage or contaminated water.
>
> I merely NEGLIGENTLY did, at worst. Arguably, one can even say that I took
> reasonable prrecautions. I mean, I don't want to hurt my wife's flowers or
> kill off the fish in the neighborhood pond. Very little fuel or
> contaminated water wound up on the ground.
>
> Some did, however, and it got soaked up by my stylisly long blue-jeans. I
> mean, the driveway was awash with rain, and any fuel just sort of sat on
> top of the puddles, and it got all into my shoes and socks and britches
> legs.
>
> I am not very good at this.
>
> However, we pressed on. Dana didn't have a single cross word to say,
> despite being woken up on a gray rainy cold November day and put out in the
> rain to help me get these fuel tanks loaded into my Subaru Outback. It
> reeks of gas now too.
>
> I drove to the bad part of town, which is located just a few minutes from
> my office, and dropped off the tanks. They'll clean them up and reline
> them. They're gpoing to call me with the overall price. I suspect I had
> better pay it, whatever it is.
>
> And get my wife a happy of some sort.
>
> --
> Robin Hood
> Jackson, MS
> 2013 Subaru Outback "Top Flight"
> 1968 Pontiac Catalina "The Cheshire Cat"
> 1978 GMC Royale motorhome "Pinto Bean"
> 1977 GMC Palm Beach motorhome "Barn Queen"
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist

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Re: [GMCnet] Dropped the tanks off at the radiator place... [message #231309 is a reply to message #231303] Tue, 26 November 2013 09:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
k2gkk is currently offline  k2gkk   United States
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
Senior Member
Well, it's for sure that Dana now has "skin in the game" on the coach. Really great bit of luck in finding her!

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ~ TZE166V101966 ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
~~ k2gkk + hotmail dot com ~~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
______________
*[ ]~~~[][ ][|\
*--OO--[]---O-*



> Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 08:17:42 -0600
> From: loxley@gmail.com
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: [GMCnet] Dropped the tanks off at the radiator place...
>
> Came in to work late today. I'll stay late so I don't have to burn any
> leave.
>
> Heh heh. He said "burn". I positively REEK of gasoline right now.
>
> My wife helped me dump the collected rainwater out of the gas tanks (really
> should have stood them up against something instead of just letting them
> lay flat during the biggest winter storm in forever) into the wash tub. I
> filled a five gallon DOT approved gas can by dunking it into the tub, but
> the tub was refilled by the rainwater we dumped out of the tanks. I have no
> idea how two and a half gallons worth of rain can go through the sender
> hole, but whatever. The important thing is that I didn't wantonly and
> recklessly pollute the area with fuel spillage or contaminated water.
>
> I merely NEGLIGENTLY did, at worst. Arguably, one can even say that I took
> reasonable prrecautions. I mean, I don't want to hurt my wife's flowers or
> kill off the fish in the neighborhood pond. Very little fuel or
> contaminated water wound up on the ground.
>
> Some did, however, and it got soaked up by my stylisly long blue-jeans. I
> mean, the driveway was awash with rain, and any fuel just sort of sat on
> top of the puddles, and it got all into my shoes and socks and britches
> legs.
>
> I am not very good at this.
>
> However, we pressed on. Dana didn't have a single cross word to say,
> despite being woken up on a gray rainy cold November day and put out in the
> rain to help me get these fuel tanks loaded into my Subaru Outback. It
> reeks of gas now too.
>
> I drove to the bad part of town, which is located just a few minutes from
> my office, and dropped off the tanks. They'll clean them up and reline
> them. They're gpoing to call me with the overall price. I suspect I had
> better pay it, whatever it is.
>
> And get my wife a happy of some sort.
>
> --
> Robin Hood
> Jackson, MS
> 2013 Subaru Outback "Top Flight"
> 1968 Pontiac Catalina "The Cheshire Cat"
> 1978 GMC Royale motorhome "Pinto Bean"
> 1977 GMC Palm Beach motorhome "Barn Queen"
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Re: [GMCnet] Dropped the tanks off at the radiator place... [message #231327 is a reply to message #231303] Tue, 26 November 2013 10:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
1275gtsport is currently offline  1275gtsport   Canada
Messages: 272
Registered: September 2009
Location: Rothesay NB
Karma: 0
Senior Member
I once took a tank to a rad shop to have repaired. when they finish they put real gas in to make sure it is not leaking.......IF you put that inside your/My wides van and the gas leaks out while driving home you WILL have to remove and discard the underlay. the carpet may loose the gas smell after leaving it out all summer and washing it twice a week....Ask me how I know Sad


Adam Raeburn
Rothesay, NB
1976 Austin Mini
1977 GMC Palm Beach
---------------------------------------------------
Once you replace everything that is attached to something else. It will all be fixed.
Re: [GMCnet] Dropped the tanks off at the radiator place... [message #231358 is a reply to message #231303] Tue, 26 November 2013 14:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
Senior Member
Robin,

Bringing the tanks to a professional was the right decision IMO.

A question for the GMC Brain trust - were the tanks "lined" from the factory?

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Robin Hood

Came in to work late today. I'll stay late so I don't have to burn any
leave.

Heh heh. He said "burn". I positively REEK of gasoline right now.

My wife helped me dump the collected rainwater out of the gas tanks (really
should have stood them up against something instead of just letting them
lay flat during the biggest winter storm in forever) into the wash tub. I
filled a five gallon DOT approved gas can by dunking it into the tub, but
the tub was refilled by the rainwater we dumped out of the tanks. I have no
idea how two and a half gallons worth of rain can go through the sender
hole, but whatever. The important thing is that I didn't wantonly and
recklessly pollute the area with fuel spillage or contaminated water.

I merely NEGLIGENTLY did, at worst. Arguably, one can even say that I took
reasonable prrecautions. I mean, I don't want to hurt my wife's flowers or
kill off the fish in the neighborhood pond. Very little fuel or
contaminated water wound up on the ground.

Some did, however, and it got soaked up by my stylisly long blue-jeans. I
mean, the driveway was awash with rain, and any fuel just sort of sat on
top of the puddles, and it got all into my shoes and socks and britches
legs.

I am not very good at this.

However, we pressed on. Dana didn't have a single cross word to say,
despite being woken up on a gray rainy cold November day and put out in the
rain to help me get these fuel tanks loaded into my Subaru Outback. It
reeks of gas now too.

I drove to the bad part of town, which is located just a few minutes from
my office, and dropped off the tanks. They'll clean them up and reline
them. They're gpoing to call me with the overall price. I suspect I had
better pay it, whatever it is.

And get my wife a happy of some sort.

--
Robin

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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Re: [GMCnet] Dropped the tanks off at the radiator place... [message #231365 is a reply to message #231358] Tue, 26 November 2013 14:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bob de Kruyff   United States
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
Senior Member
""Robin,

Bringing the tanks to a professional was the right decision IMO.

A question for the GMC Brain trust - were the tanks "lined" from the factory?

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
""

Rob, I'm not aware of any GM tanks in that timeframe that were lined. Any ones I have looked at are bare metal. Since then we have had plastic tanks and tanks with bladders.


Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
Re: [GMCnet] Dropped the tanks off at the radiator place... [message #231366 is a reply to message #231358] Tue, 26 November 2013 15:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Robin Hood is currently offline  Robin Hood   United States
Messages: 1078
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 3
Senior Member
Booyah! cleaned and lined, two hundred bucks each! :) Ready some time next
week. Hopefully Wednesday, which is my day off. :)

--
Robin Hood
Jackson, MS
2013 Subaru Outback "Top Flight"
1968 Pontiac Catalina "The Cheshire Cat"
1978 GMC Royale motorhome "Pinto Bean"
1977 GMC Palm Beach motorhome "Barn Queen"
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Re: [GMCnet] Dropped the tanks off at the radiator place... [message #231367 is a reply to message #231366] Tue, 26 November 2013 15:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Carl S. is currently offline  Carl S.   United States
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
Senior Member

Robin Hood wrote on Tue, 26 November 2013 14:00

Booyah! cleaned and lined, two hundred bucks each! Smile Ready some time next
week. Hopefully Wednesday, which is my day off. Smile

--
Robin Hood
Jackson, MS
2013 Subaru Outback "Top Flight"
1968 Pontiac Catalina "The Cheshire Cat"
1978 GMC Royale motorhome "Pinto Bean"
1977 GMC Palm Beach motorhome "Barn Queen"
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That's awesome. That was definitely the way to go.


Carl Stouffer '75 ex Palm Beach Tucson, AZ. Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
Re: [GMCnet] Dropped the tanks off at the radiator place... [message #231376 is a reply to message #231366] Tue, 26 November 2013 15:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
Senior Member
Robin,

In light of what Bob de Kruyff noted I wonder if lining them is a good idea? From what I have read here once they are clean the
ethanol will keep them that way. I vaguely remember (possibly incorrectly) someone mentioning that they had tanks relined and the
stuff came off causing big problems!

If they don't line them the cost should be lower too.

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Robin Hood

Booyah! cleaned and lined, two hundred bucks each! :) Ready some time next
week. Hopefully Wednesday, which is my day off. :)

Robin

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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Re: [GMCnet] Dropped the tanks off at the radiator place... [message #231380 is a reply to message #231376] Tue, 26 November 2013 15:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ljdavick is currently offline  ljdavick   United States
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
Senior Member
But doesn't our Ethanol laced fuel attract water? Couln't that lead to rust in an unlined tank?

Larry Davick
Fremont, California
A Mystery Machine
'76 (ish) Palm Beach

----- Original Message -----

From: "Robert Mueller" <robmueller@iinet.net.au>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 1:39:33 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Dropped the tanks off at the radiator place...

Robin,

In light of what Bob de Kruyff noted I wonder if lining them is a good idea? From what I have read here once they are clean the
ethanol will keep them that way. I vaguely remember (possibly incorrectly) someone mentioning that they had tanks relined and the
stuff came off causing big problems!

If they don't line them the cost should be lower too.

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
Re: [GMCnet] Dropped the tanks off at the radiator place... [message #231382 is a reply to message #231376] Tue, 26 November 2013 16:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sgltrac is currently offline  sgltrac   United States
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
Senior Member
Last tank I lined was an old street bike tank about 20 years ago and I used a product called kreem? Or something. I was not terribly satisfied with the apparent adhesion of the stuff and application was difficult in a small tank without baffles. I don't know how you could ensure even application in our large tanks. Products of this type have undoubtedly been improved since then but I feel similar to Rob. If the tank is not rusted thin then it's probably ok going forward once it's clean. If it is rusted thin it may not be worth the trouble. Maybe run the clean thin one until you can scrounge a good used one.

Todd Sullivan

Sully
77 royale
Seattle

> On Nov 26, 2013, at 1:39 PM, "Robert Mueller" <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
>
> Robin,
>
> In light of what Bob de Kruyff noted I wonder if lining them is a good idea? From what I have read here once they are clean the
> ethanol will keep them that way. I vaguely remember (possibly incorrectly) someone mentioning that they had tanks relined and the
> stuff came off causing big problems!
>
> If they don't line them the cost should be lower too.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robin Hood
>
> Booyah! cleaned and lined, two hundred bucks each! :) Ready some time next
> week. Hopefully Wednesday, which is my day off. :)
>
> Robin
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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Sully 77 Royale basket case. Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list) Seattle, Wa.
Re: [GMCnet] Dropped the tanks off at the radiator place... [message #231386 is a reply to message #231382] Tue, 26 November 2013 16:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
Senior Member
Todd,

I used Kreem all the time when I was building hot rod Harley's in Hong Kong. I was EXTREMELY careful to follow the instructions TO
THE LETTER and was fortunate that I never had any problems.

However, a 3.5 gallon Harley tank with no baffles is a far cry from a 25 gallon GMC tank with baffles.

I am going to have to deal with rusty fuel tanks on The Blue Streak I may just have some aluminum ones made up.

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Sullivan

Last tank I lined was an old street bike tank about 20 years ago and I used a product called kreem? Or something. I was not terribly
satisfied with the apparent adhesion of the stuff and application was difficult in a small tank without baffles. I don't know how
you could ensure even application in our large tanks. Products of this type have undoubtedly been improved since then but I feel
similar to Rob. If the tank is not rusted thin then it's probably ok going forward once it's clean. If it is rusted thin it may not
be worth the trouble. Maybe run the clean thin one until you can scrounge a good used one.

Todd Sullivan


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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Re: [GMCnet] Dropped the tanks off at the radiator place... [message #231389 is a reply to message #231386] Tue, 26 November 2013 16:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sgltrac is currently offline  sgltrac   United States
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
Senior Member
I think a plastic fuel cell might be the way to go I you are going custom? I haven't checked what the "standard" sizes are but iirc the cost of standard sizes wasn't that steep. Then again, this was high school :/

Todd Sullivan

Sully
77 royale
Seattle

> On Nov 26, 2013, at 2:09 PM, "Robert Mueller" <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
>
> Todd,
>
> I used Kreem all the time when I was building hot rod Harley's in Hong Kong. I was EXTREMELY careful to follow the instructions TO
> THE LETTER and was fortunate that I never had any problems.
>
> However, a 3.5 gallon Harley tank with no baffles is a far cry from a 25 gallon GMC tank with baffles.
>
> I am going to have to deal with rusty fuel tanks on The Blue Streak I may just have some aluminum ones made up.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Todd Sullivan
>
> Last tank I lined was an old street bike tank about 20 years ago and I used a product called kreem? Or something. I was not terribly
> satisfied with the apparent adhesion of the stuff and application was difficult in a small tank without baffles. I don't know how
> you could ensure even application in our large tanks. Products of this type have undoubtedly been improved since then but I feel
> similar to Rob. If the tank is not rusted thin then it's probably ok going forward once it's clean. If it is rusted thin it may not
> be worth the trouble. Maybe run the clean thin one until you can scrounge a good used one.
>
> Todd Sullivan
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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Sully 77 Royale basket case. Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list) Seattle, Wa.
Re: [GMCnet] Dropped the tanks off at the radiator place... [message #231390 is a reply to message #231376] Tue, 26 November 2013 16:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott cowden is currently offline  scott cowden   United States
Messages: 170
Registered: February 2004
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Actually, Rob, it's the opposite. The ethanol is hydroscopic, which attracts moisture. Hence the need to keep the tanks full when the coach isn't in use to minimize unconditioned [moist] air from interacting with the fuel and putting water condensate in contact with the bare metal tank.

My tanks are in great shape and I'm crediting this with keeping the tanks full and regular use of fuel stabilizers to counteract the ethanol's water grabbing tendencies.

Ethanol in fuel is completely useless other than for political purposes so govt can suck up to industrial agri-business, but I digress. Add 10% ethanol and your fuel economy drops 10%....so we're paying gasoline prices for 'filler,'... oops, sorry, wrong forum!

Anywho, using a sealing product to contain and curtail the rust is likely the best step for a tank with internal corrosion to the extent we saw.

Keep on, Soldier, you're doing the right thing....

Just my two cents worth....

Scott
'74 x-Glacier
Newmarket ON





> From: robmueller@iinet.net.au
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 08:39:33 +1100
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Dropped the tanks off at the radiator place...
>
> Robin,
>
> In light of what Bob de Kruyff noted I wonder if lining them is a good idea? From what I have read here once they are clean the
> ethanol will keep them that way. I vaguely remember (possibly incorrectly) someone mentioning that they had tanks relined and the
> stuff came off causing big problems!
>
> If they don't line them the cost should be lower too.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robin Hood
>
> Booyah! cleaned and lined, two hundred bucks each! :) Ready some time next
> week. Hopefully Wednesday, which is my day off. :)
>
> Robin
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist

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Re: [GMCnet] Dropped the tanks off at the radiator place... [message #231392 is a reply to message #231380] Tue, 26 November 2013 16:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Emery Stora is currently offline  Emery Stora   United States
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Registered: January 2011
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Senior Member
I am totally against the use of ethanol in gasoline but u must say that attraction of water shouldn't be a problem in a sealed tank. If you left it in an uncovered tank if would be a problem.

But in a fuel tank it is sealed and the only water that could enter is in the air that is drawn in to replace the fuel being drawn out. The ethanol can easily absorb that small amount of water so that it doesn't settle out.

Ethanol is actually a weak acid and it can be corrosive to metals even without the addition of water

Emery Stora

On Nov 26, 2013, at 2:57 PM, Larry Davick <ljdavick@comcast.net> wrote:

> But doesn't our Ethanol laced fuel attract water? Couln't that lead to rust in an unlined tank?
>
> Larry Davick
> Fremont, California
> A Mystery Machine
> '76 (ish) Palm Beach
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Robert Mueller" <robmueller@iinet.net.au>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 1:39:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Dropped the tanks off at the radiator place...
>
> Robin,
>
> In light of what Bob de Kruyff noted I wonder if lining them is a good idea? From what I have read here once they are clean the
> ethanol will keep them that way. I vaguely remember (possibly incorrectly) someone mentioning that they had tanks relined and the
> stuff came off causing big problems!
>
> If they don't line them the cost should be lower too.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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Re: [GMCnet] Dropped the tanks off at the radiator place... [message #231396 is a reply to message #231390] Tue, 26 November 2013 16:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
Senior Member
Scott,

I think you've read something into my message that wasn't there. I agree 100% that ethanol is hydroscopic that's why when I filled
up Double Trouble's tanks last week before I left the USA I could see gas in the filler neck. It was about 1/2" below the cap. It
took almost a half an hour to get it to that level with all the burbling and bubbling.

When I noted "From what I have read here once they are clean the ethanol will keep them that way." I could have sworn that ethanol
will eat rust because I could swear that I've read that filters were found to be full of rust.

I just read Emery's message in which he states; "Ethanol is actually a weak acid and it can be corrosive to metals even without the
addition of water."

Emery,

Would ethanol eat rust on the inside of a fuel tank?

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
 
-----Original Message-----
From: scott cowden

Actually, Rob, it's the opposite. The ethanol is hydroscopic, which attracts moisture. Hence the need to keep the tanks full when
the coach isn't in use to minimize unconditioned [moist] air from interacting with the fuel and putting water condensate in contact
with the bare metal tank.

My tanks are in great shape and I'm crediting this with keeping the tanks full and regular use of fuel stabilizers to counteract the
ethanol's water grabbing tendencies.

Ethanol in fuel is completely useless other than for political purposes so govt can suck up to industrial agri-business, but I
digress. Add 10% ethanol and your fuel economy drops 10%....so we're paying gasoline prices for 'filler,'... oops, sorry, wrong
forum!

Anywho, using a sealing product to contain and curtail the rust is likely the best step for a tank with internal corrosion to the
extent we saw.

Keep on, Soldier, you're doing the right thing....

Just my two cents worth....

Scott

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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Re: [GMCnet] Dropped the tanks off at the radiator place... [message #231397 is a reply to message #231365] Tue, 26 November 2013 16:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
Senior Member
Bob de Kruyff wrote on Tue, 26 November 2013 15:57

""Robin,

Bringing the tanks to a professional was the right decision IMO.

A question for the GMC Brain trust - were the tanks "lined" from the factory?

Regards,
Rob M.

Rob, I'm not aware of any GM tanks in that timeframe that were lined. Any ones I have looked at are bare metal. Since then we have had plastic tanks and tanks with bladders.

Rob,
Bob is right about this. The closest that they ever got before going to plastic tanks was terne plate and that was just to keep the metal from rust before the tanks were delivered.
Matt


Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: [GMCnet] Dropped the tanks off at the radiator place... [message #231399 is a reply to message #231396] Tue, 26 November 2013 16:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr ERFisher is currently offline  Mr ERFisher   United States
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Registered: August 2005
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Senior Member
when I filled

> up Double Trouble's tanks last week before I left the USA I could see gas
> in the filler neck. It was about 1/2" below the cap. It
> took almost a half an hour to get it to that level with all the burbling
> and bubbling.
>
that will fill your vapor canister full of gas
because the liquid separator will not work that well or that long

not good or normal

--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
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Alternator Protection Cable
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Re: [GMCnet] Dropped the tanks off at the radiator place... [message #231400 is a reply to message #231396] Tue, 26 November 2013 16:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott cowden is currently offline  scott cowden   United States
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Registered: February 2004
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Senior Member
Sorry if i misread that, Rob;

A lot of people also mix up ethanol, methanol and methyl hydrate. We use methyl hydrate up here in the GWN [Great White North] to keep water from freezing in our fuel tanks and lines in winter. I have fairly regularly heard people say that with ethanol in the fuel that gas line antifreeze [methyl hydrate] is no longer needed. It's probable that we need it even more now.

Scott

> From: robmueller@iinet.net.au
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 09:44:09 +1100
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Dropped the tanks off at the radiator place...
>
> Scott,
>
> I think you've read something into my message that wasn't there. I agree 100% that ethanol is hydroscopic that's why when I filled
> up Double Trouble's tanks last week before I left the USA I could see gas in the filler neck. It was about 1/2" below the cap. It
> took almost a half an hour to get it to that level with all the burbling and bubbling.
>
> When I noted "From what I have read here once they are clean the ethanol will keep them that way." I could have sworn that ethanol
> will eat rust because I could swear that I've read that filters were found to be full of rust.
>
> I just read Emery's message in which he states; "Ethanol is actually a weak acid and it can be corrosive to metals even without the
> addition of water."
>
> Emery,
>
> Would ethanol eat rust on the inside of a fuel tank?
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: scott cowden
>
> Actually, Rob, it's the opposite. The ethanol is hydroscopic, which attracts moisture. Hence the need to keep the tanks full when
> the coach isn't in use to minimize unconditioned [moist] air from interacting with the fuel and putting water condensate in contact
> with the bare metal tank.
>
> My tanks are in great shape and I'm crediting this with keeping the tanks full and regular use of fuel stabilizers to counteract the
> ethanol's water grabbing tendencies.
>
> Ethanol in fuel is completely useless other than for political purposes so govt can suck up to industrial agri-business, but I
> digress. Add 10% ethanol and your fuel economy drops 10%....so we're paying gasoline prices for 'filler,'... oops, sorry, wrong
> forum!
>
> Anywho, using a sealing product to contain and curtail the rust is likely the best step for a tank with internal corrosion to the
> extent we saw.
>
> Keep on, Soldier, you're doing the right thing....
>
> Just my two cents worth....
>
> Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist

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Re: [GMCnet] Dropped the tanks off at the radiator place... [message #231402 is a reply to message #231396] Tue, 26 November 2013 17:04 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
emerystora is currently offline  emerystora   United States
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
Senior Member

On Nov 26, 2013, at 3:44 PM, Robert Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
>
> Emery,
>
> Would ethanol eat rust on the inside of a fuel tank?

The rust would have been formed by water or condensate in the tanks when gasoline without ethanol was used. With ethanol in the gasoline any water vapor should be absorbed by the ethanol and it won't rust the tank. However, ethanol is a solvent that dissolves resins, rust, and dirt that have accumulated on older tank walls. It doesn't really "eat" the rust but it will loosen its bond with the steel tanks. It will be entrained with the fuel as it is pulled out of the tank and quickly clog up filters. Which is why someone moving an old GMC should take along a lot of spare filters. Eventually the crud will be filtered out and that problem eliminated.

The way to prevent water vapor in air rusting tanks is to keep the tanks full during storage. Otherwise the air in the tanks will expand when warm and the air is expelled from the tanks. When the tanks cool it will pull in air which has water vapor in it and the water vapor will condense on the walls of the tanks. So by filling the tanks there is not a lot of air that will move in and out of the tanks.

Ethanol in the fuel will absorb about 1/2% of its weight of water so again it is best to keep the tanks full while in storage so that more and more water doesn't enter the tanks and exceed the ethanol's capacity to absorb it.

Emery Stora

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