| Re: [GMCnet] Can a 747 take off in 6000 feet? [message #230864] |
Sat, 23 November 2013 03:08  |
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hnielsen2
Messages: 1434
Registered: February 2004
Location: Alpine CA
Karma:
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Senior Member |
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Ken
Me being a none pilot.
You information was very interesting.
Thank You
Howard
Alpine Ca
All is well with my Lord
> On Nov 23, 2013, at 0:51, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> Johnny Bridges wrote on Fri, 22 November 2013 19:24
>> You'd think. One piece I read was comments from an ex ATC who worked at Embry - Riddle. He said aiming for the wrong airport in KC was about a monthly occurance, but the usually corrected the pilot. It's easy to do in an unfamiliar area, I had a nice approach going on a amll they were building in Atlanta once when the PDK tower corrected me. They were real nice about it.
>>
>> --johnny
>
> Flying the airplane is the responsibility of the flight crew (primarily the pilot). The controllers' responsibility is to establish separation between aircraft in his zone or sector. That said flight controllers usually help out when an aircraft strays from the assigned, or normal, or expected path.
>
> Non-pilots assume that controllers can see everything aircraft are doing. This is not necessarily true. Some locations with towers have no approach control which means there is no radar at that facility. The tower only has a responsibility for a 5 mile radius from their airport. Separation is done visually and verbally. Even in areas with approach control, the radar room is in a separate area from the tower controller. The tower may or may not have a slave radar screen as an additional asset in the tower to look at if it is co-located with the approach control. I can see how a tower controller at McConnell would not realize that the aircraft was descending too soon. Even if he did have a screen available to him, these two runways McConnel and Jabara are basically lined up and it would be easy to see how a controller would not realize that the pilots are looking at and flying to the wrong airport.
>
> ATC control usually goes from the enroute facility, to the approach / departure control, to the tower controller, and the ground controller.
>
> I looked a the Wichita area control areas and the flight would have been it would have been Kansas City Center (located in some where near KC) up to the last 20 miles from Wichita. Then to Wichita Approach last 20 miles to the last 5 miles and McConnell Tower for the last 5 miles. It is doubtful that McConnell even had any active radar turned on and then a slave in the tower because they were not doing any active military approaches and they only have control of a 5 mile radius. We know from the audio recording that they were talking to McConnell tower at the time they landed at the wrong airport 9 miles away outside of the McConnell's area of responsibility.
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> I just looked at the recorded flight profile and the last recorded fix is shown as 2300 feet and 153 knots on a heading of 238 degrees. This was observed by Kansas city Center radar.
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> So do not blame the controller. He was not flying or navigating the airplane. At most he probably said "Clear to land on runway 18. Wind is xxx at xx. Verify gear down." The last statement is military only thing. Civilians are suppose to be intelligent enough to drop the gear on their own. Occasionally someone does forget.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
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