Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] The 'Acute Effects' of Higher Ethanol on Outdoor Power Equipment
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] The 'Acute Effects' of Higher Ethanol on Outdoor Power Equipment [message #229020 is a reply to message #229019] |
Sat, 09 November 2013 06:11   |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
|
Senior Member |
|
|
When is the last time you think anyone in the current administration actually used and was responsible for a small engine?
My wife's new car explicitly states use of E-15 or higher voids the warranty. My 2010 truck states the same thing.
Politicians do not care, as long as they get their contributions to their campaign funds, and their lobbyist jobs when they retire.
ADM drives that train.
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] The 'Acute Effects' of Higher Ethanol on Outdoor Power Equipment [message #229047 is a reply to message #229020] |
Sat, 09 November 2013 11:23 |
jknezek
Messages: 1057
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 5
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Was tinkering with my non-functioning leaf blower last weekend. Cleaned out the carb, the exhaust, new spark plug. Basically went through the whole system. Would start, run fine for 10 seconds and then die off like it wasn't getting gas.
Finally took the tank off and realized that of the two gas lines, one for the bubble pump to start and one to feed the engine after it began running, the one one to feed the engine had disintegrated in the tank. So it was still getting gas when I bubbled it, but nothing on its own.
Went over to the outdoor shop to get a new piece of hose and the guy said its becoming almost annual for some makes and models. Guess I should be happy my hose lasted 4 years. They keep roles of hoses in stock in the small diameters now just because this is a never ending problem.
Thanks,
Jeremy Knezek
1976 Glenbrook
Birmingham, AL
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] The 'Acute Effects' of Higher Ethanol on Outdoor Power Equipment [message #229057 is a reply to message #229047] |
Sat, 09 November 2013 14:57 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
|
Senior Member |
|
|
If you crank the thing before noon on weekends, there's a special place in hell for you :) :) I just redid my chainsaw and string trimmer with alcohol proof - according to the small engine guy anyway - fuel lines.
--johnny
From: Jeremy <jtknezek@hotmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Saturday, November 9, 2013 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] The 'Acute Effects' of Higher Ethanol on Outdoor Power Equipment
Was tinkering with my non-functioning leaf blower last weekend. Cleaned out the carb, the exhaust, new spark plug. Basically went through the whole system. Would start, run fine for 10 seconds and then die off like it wasn't getting gas.
Finally took the tank off and realized that of the two gas lines, one for the bubble pump to start and one to feed the engine after it began running, the one one to feed the engine had disintegrated in the tank. So it was still getting gas when I bubbled it, but nothing on its own.
Went over to the outdoor shop to get a new piece of hose and the guy said its becoming almost annual for some makes and models. Guess I should be happy my hose lasted 4 years. They keep roles of hoses in stock in the small diameters now just because this is a never ending problem.
--
Thanks,
Jeremy Knezek
1976 Glenbrook
Birmingham, AL
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] The 'Acute Effects' of Higher Ethanol on Outdoor Power Equipment [message #229060 is a reply to message #229057] |
Sat, 09 November 2013 15:16 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I used to have a Biker Tramp that lived next door to me. They would have
all night parties out on their deck, complete with Kegs, Bonfires, Live
Music, and Harleys roaring in and out until the break of dawn. Faithfully,
at about 0730 hours the following morning, I would sling on my back pack
leaf blower and proceed to clean all the leaves out of my driveway and
lawn. Did I mention that I have 11 huge Oregon White Oak trees in my yard?
Usually took me until the echo's of the last departing Harley Davidsons had
faded off into the now quiet countryside. Payback is a Bi%^h. When my
neighbor was not in a party mood, he was a great friend of mine. He
eventually killed himself on his Bike. Ran into a full size Ford F-250
stopped dead in the freeway near the Fruit inspection station in Weed, CA.
Miss him but not the parties.
Oh yeah, only use non alcohol fuel in your small engines. 10% will eat up
plastic fuel tanks, hoses, carb parts. They are not cheap to repair.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Sat, Nov 9, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Johnny Bridges <jhbridges@ymail.com> wrote:
> If you crank the thing before noon on weekends, there's a special place in
> hell for you :) :) I just redid my chainsaw and string trimmer with
> alcohol proof - according to the small engine guy anyway - fuel lines.
>
> --johnny
>
> From: Jeremy <jtknezek@hotmail.com>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Saturday, November 9, 2013 12:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] The 'Acute Effects' of Higher Ethanol on Outdoor
> Power Equipment
>
>
>
>
> Was tinkering with my non-functioning leaf blower last weekend. Cleaned
> out the carb, the exhaust, new spark plug. Basically went through the whole
> system. Would start, run fine for 10 seconds and then die off like it
> wasn't getting gas.
>
> Finally took the tank off and realized that of the two gas lines, one for
> the bubble pump to start and one to feed the engine after it began running,
> the one one to feed the engine had disintegrated in the tank. So it was
> still getting gas when I bubbled it, but nothing on its own.
>
> Went over to the outdoor shop to get a new piece of hose and the guy said
> its becoming almost annual for some makes and models. Guess I should be
> happy my hose lasted 4 years. They keep roles of hoses in stock in the
> small diameters now just because this is a never ending problem.
> --
> Thanks,
> Jeremy Knezek
> 1976 Glenbrook
> Birmingham, AL
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] The 'Acute Effects' of Higher Ethanol on Outdoor Power Equipment [message #229583 is a reply to message #229019] |
Tue, 12 November 2013 19:04 |
bobby5832708
Messages: 237
Registered: November 2006
Location: Winter Springs FL
Karma: 3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I laugh every time I hear of ethanol being blamed for the 'destruction' of small engines. Several reasons for my laughter:
1. Last year I gave my son my old Murray riding mower (1996 vintage) that still ran fine (still does) and has never had so much as a fuel filter replaced in it. I think I replaced the air cleaner once and I changed the oil a couple times a year. So much for the Mobil E10 unleaded ruining a Briggs engine.
2. My Craftsman gas powered blower that I got for Christmas 1988 still runs fine although it makes some 'interesting' noises. I replaced the gas lines years ago with Tygon lines and rebuilt the carb and have had no issues since except for a broken pull cord that I can't blame on the ethanol (oh why not, everything else is blamed on the ethanol).
3. My GMC has Gates fuel lines that I installed in 2006 just after I bought it. Not the expensive Gates fuel injection hose, but the standard Gates fuel line. They still look fine inside and out (I've taken several sections out while reconfiguring the fuel system and the inside looks like new). So much for the Ethanol destroying fuel lines.
What's next, when a tail light burns out it's the ethanols fault? When the radio crackles it's the ethanol? When the battery goes dead it was the ethanol that did it? Personally I wouldn't mind seeing the removal of ethanol from our fuel but since the powers-that-be say it has to be there I just make sure to use quality parts on my equipment so the ethanol doesn't cause major problems.
BTW, you all know when the ethanol mandate started, right? Hint - it was NOT during the current administration. Here's a cut & paste to refresh your memory:
(AP) - August 2005 — President George W. Bush signs the Energy Policy Act of 2005, requiring oil companies to add ethanol to their gasoline. Called the Renewable Fuels Standard, this mandate begins with a 4-billion-gallon requirement in 2006 and doubles by 2012. Corn is selling for $1.95 a bushel.
Bob Heller
2017 Winnebago 29VE
Winter Springs FL
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] The 'Acute Effects' of Higher Ethanol on Outdoor Power Equipment [message #229588 is a reply to message #229583] |
Tue, 12 November 2013 19:10 |
Emery Stora
Messages: 959
Registered: January 2011
Karma: 4
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Bob
That message sounds damn political to me.
Bush may have signed it but don't forget that Congress wrote it and passed it.
Emery Stora
On Nov 12, 2013, at 6:04 PM, Bob Heller <rheller@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> I laugh every time I hear of ethanol being blamed for the 'destruction' of small engines. Several reasons for my laughter:
>
> 1. Last year I gave my son my old Murray riding mower (1996 vintage) that still ran fine (still does) and has never had so much as a fuel filter replaced in it. I think I replaced the air cleaner once and I changed the oil a couple times a year. So much for the Mobil E10 unleaded ruining a Briggs engine.
>
> 2. My Craftsman gas powered blower that I got for Christmas 1988 still runs fine although it makes some 'interesting' noises. I replaced the gas lines years ago with Tygon lines and rebuilt the carb and have had no issues since except for a broken pull cord that I can't blame on the ethanol (oh why not, everything else is blamed on the ethanol).
>
> 3. My GMC has Gates fuel lines that I installed in 2006 just after I bought it. Not the expensive Gates fuel injection hose, but the standard Gates fuel line. They still look fine inside and out (I've taken several sections out while reconfiguring the fuel system and the inside looks like new). So much for the Ethanol destroying fuel lines.
>
> What's next, when a tail light burns out it's the ethanols fault? When the radio crackles it's the ethanol? When the battery goes dead it was the ethanol that did it? Personally I wouldn't mind seeing the removal of ethanol from our fuel but since the powers-that-be say it has to be there I just make sure to use quality parts on my equipment so the ethanol doesn't cause major problems.
>
> BTW, you all know when the ethanol mandate started, right? Hint - it was NOT during the current administration. Here's a cut & paste to refresh your memory:
>
> (AP) - August 2005 — President George W. Bush signs the Energy Policy Act of 2005, requiring oil companies to add ethanol to their gasoline. Called the Renewable Fuels Standard, this mandate begins with a 4-billion-gallon requirement in 2006 and doubles by 2012. Corn is selling for $1.95 a bushel.
>
>
>
> --
> Bob Heller
> 1974 X-Canyonlands 26ft
> Winter Springs FL
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] The 'Acute Effects' of Higher Ethanol on Outdoor Power Equipment [message #229597 is a reply to message #229019] |
Tue, 12 November 2013 19:44 |
bobby5832708
Messages: 237
Registered: November 2006
Location: Winter Springs FL
Karma: 3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Emery,
Yeah, that last paragraph was a rebuttal to tphipps post, which I cut & pasted below. But tphipps post is not 'political' because......why? You didn't call him out on it. At least I had GMC content in my post. Just trying to keep things from getting too one-sided. And no, I am not a fan of our current clan in DC, I just don't blame them for everything that happens in the world.
cut & paste:
When is the last time you think anyone in the current administration actually used and was responsible for a small engine?
My wife's new car explicitly states use of E-15 or higher voids the warranty. My 2010 truck states the same thing.
Politicians do not care, as long as they get their contributions to their campaign funds, and their lobbyist jobs when they retire.
ADM drives that train.
Bob Heller
2017 Winnebago 29VE
Winter Springs FL
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] The 'Acute Effects' of Higher Ethanol on Outdoor Power Equipment [message #229609 is a reply to message #229597] |
Tue, 12 November 2013 20:32 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I have not read tphipps post. Do you want to send it to me so that I can?
Emery Stora
On Nov 12, 2013, at 6:44 PM, Bob Heller <rheller@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> Emery,
>
> Yeah, that last paragraph was a rebuttal to tphipps post, which I cut & pasted below. But tphipps post is not 'political' because......why? You didn't call him out on it. At least I had GMC content in my post. Just trying to keep things from getting too one-sided. And no, I am not a fan of our current clan in DC, I just don't blame them for everything that happens in the world.
>
> cut & paste:
>
> When is the last time you think anyone in the current administration actually used and was responsible for a small engine?
> My wife's new car explicitly states use of E-15 or higher voids the warranty. My 2010 truck states the same thing.
> Politicians do not care, as long as they get their contributions to their campaign funds, and their lobbyist jobs when they retire.
> ADM drives that train.
> --
> Bob Heller
> 1974 X-Canyonlands 26ft
> Winter Springs FL
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] The 'Acute Effects' of Higher Ethanol on Outdoor Power Equipment [message #229616 is a reply to message #229019] |
Tue, 12 November 2013 21:08 |
bobby5832708
Messages: 237
Registered: November 2006
Location: Winter Springs FL
Karma: 3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Emery,
It was the first reply. On the forum it's message 2 in the thread, yours is message 1. Here's the complete cut & paste (I love cut & pasting, saves typing):
=====================================================
Re: [GMCnet] The 'Acute Effects' of Higher Ethanol on Outdoor Power Equipment [message #229020 is a reply to message #229019 ] Sat, 09 November 2013 06:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tphipps is currently offline tphipps
Messages: 1322
Registered: August 2004
Location: Vicksburg, MS
Senior Member
When is the last time you think anyone in the current administration actually used and was responsible for a small engine?
My wife's new car explicitly states use of E-15 or higher voids the warranty. My 2010 truck states the same thing.
Politicians do not care, as long as they get their contributions to their campaign funds, and their lobbyist jobs when they retire.
ADM drives that train.
Tom, MS II
1975 GMC Avion, under forever re-construction Vicksburg, MS. 3.7 miles from I-20
Bob Heller
2017 Winnebago 29VE
Winter Springs FL
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] The 'Acute Effects' of Higher Ethanol on Outdoor Power Equipment [message #229617 is a reply to message #229616] |
Tue, 12 November 2013 21:11 |
Emery Stora
Messages: 959
Registered: January 2011
Karma: 4
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I don't use the forum
Emery Stora
On Nov 12, 2013, at 8:08 PM, Bob Heller <rheller@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> Emery,
>
> It was the first reply. On the forum it's message 2 in the thread, yours is message 1. Here's the complete cut & paste (I love cut & pasting, saves typing):
>
> =====================================================
>
> Re: [GMCnet] The 'Acute Effects' of Higher Ethanol on Outdoor Power Equipment [message #229020 is a reply to message #229019 ] Sat, 09 November 2013 06:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
> tphipps is currently offline tphipps
> Messages: 1322
> Registered: August 2004
> Location: Vicksburg, MS
> Senior Member
>
> When is the last time you think anyone in the current administration actually used and was responsible for a small engine?
> My wife's new car explicitly states use of E-15 or higher voids the warranty. My 2010 truck states the same thing.
> Politicians do not care, as long as they get their contributions to their campaign funds, and their lobbyist jobs when they retire.
> ADM drives that train.
> Tom, MS II
>
> 1975 GMC Avion, under forever re-construction Vicksburg, MS. 3.7 miles from I-20
> --
> Bob Heller
> 1974 X-Canyonlands 26ft
> Winter Springs FL
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] The 'Acute Effects' of Higher Ethanol on Outdoor Power Equipment [message #229662 is a reply to message #229019] |
Wed, 13 November 2013 09:20 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I'm pro E85/ anti E10-15. One thing they don't mention is that E10 isn't relieving our gas pains as there is a wash on caloric gain with farming/ transporting/processing energy used and loss of mileage in E10-15 blends.
Bob, all the small engine shops around here are flooded with broken small engine devices they blame on "burned out by E10." Could partly be new outdoor power equip is mostly throw away junk.
The standard fuel line seems fine for X time as the rubber gives up the ghost (flex agents) but once depleted it deteriorates in a very rapid time frame. Turns to a soaker hose weeping everywhere. My guess yours may be nearing that time.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] The 'Acute Effects' of Higher Ethanol on Outdoor Power Equipment [message #229675 is a reply to message #229583] |
Wed, 13 November 2013 10:08 |
 |
Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
|
Senior Member |
|
|
| bobby5832708 wrote on Tue, 12 November 2013 20:04 |
I laugh every time I hear of ethanol being blamed for the 'destruction' of small engines. Several reasons for my laughter:
<snip - go back and read it if you care>
|
Bob,
The reason for the claim of ethanol damages that I have been given reason to pursue come in two primary categories:
The first is that many (most) of the little 2-stroke engines died of one of two reasons. First of those is that old 2-stoke ashless lube oils were incompatible with ethanol at any concentration. The other was that most had cases that were sealed with a sealant (like Permatex 2) that had some alcohol solubility. This and crankshaft seals that were also incompatible cause crankcase leakage that lead to a lean condition that is really tough on a charge (gasoline) cooled engine as it will lead to exhaust port scuffing.
The second and common largely to small 4-stroke engines is fuel system damage. As much of the late-70s to 80s small engines had a great deal of plastic parts in the fuel system (carburetor floats, fuel pumps and fuel tanks among them), and damage to any of these can be critical. While the damage may not be directly what you are thinking, I have seen more than a few fires that damaged or destroyed equipment and a host of other issue like bore damage from running over rich when the "float" sank to lube oil dilution from a failed fuel pump.
I am very glad the you have been lucky so far. Many have not been. I have am just really glad that the Chinese are making parts for many of there applications, Kohler, Onan and B&S are very proud of the parts that do manage to supply.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] The 'Acute Effects' of Higher Ethanol on Outdoor Power Equipment [message #229745 is a reply to message #229019] |
Wed, 13 November 2013 20:54 |
bobby5832708
Messages: 237
Registered: November 2006
Location: Winter Springs FL
Karma: 3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
John,
The only fuel line that will work properly on the tiny 2-cycle engines is Tygon. Just because the fuel line is yellow doesn't mean it's Tygon, you have to make sure the Tygon logo is printed along the entire hose, just like Gates puts all those words along with their brand name on every foot of their fuel hose. The black and clear fuel lines that many shops sell along with the crap yellow lines HD and Lowes sell are worthless, they won't last.
I've had the Tygon lines in my old 1988 leaf blower for years and it still works. I know of twice that I've forgotten to mix the oil with the gas, ran the blower until it quit, remembered what I did (or didn't) do, added the oil to the gas can, wait until the blower is cold and refilled it with mixed gas, and it still runs. It makes some interesting noises but that's probably because it's 25 years old and it has been run without oil a couple of times.
Like I've said many times in the past, use quality parts! Sure the Tygon line is more expensive than the crappy yellow Lowes/HD fuel tubing, there's a reason for that. Just like on the GMC, use good Gates-branded fuel hose instead of some off-brand stuff and you won't have the problems others have. The good parts are not THAT much more expensive and you don't have to do the job over and over again.
Obviously the solution to the whole problem is to remove alcohol from the gasoline. I could sit here and bitch and moan and wait for that day to come but in the meantime I want to use my power yard equipment and my GMC motorhome so I needed to do what was necessary to enable them to run (and keep on running) on whatever fuel is readily available. So far so good. What can I say?
Bob Heller
2017 Winnebago 29VE
Winter Springs FL
|
|
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Wed Oct 02 05:24:53 CDT 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.13149 seconds
|
GMCforum
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
