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| Removing the black tank [message #228347] |
Sun, 03 November 2013 20:04  |
mickey szilagyi
Messages: 273
Registered: January 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Hello all:
We are needing to remove our black tank to fix a crack in the bottom as well as try to seal up the drain holes because of mice that keep getting inside the coach.
We loosened the two brackets that hold the tank up. The left side (driver's side) seems to drop without a problem, but the right side (passenger side) seems to be held up by something other than the two brackets. After reading some more in this forum, we discovered that there is a threaded flange under the toilet that threads in to the tank. We removed the toilet, and found that the flange is held in place by 8 screws.
First question is: Are there any other threaded connections to the black tank (drains, etc.), other than the toilet flange, that need to be loosened before it is dropped? For instance we realize that the sink drain and vents are attached, but we do not know how they are attached (threaded?, or slide on?).
And our second question: How are the 8 bolts in the toilet flange fastened (i.e. do they thread in to wood underneath the fiberglass bathroom floor, or are they machine threaded in to something else? In our coach, these bolts are badly rusted and so far we are not able to loosen them. We are making sure we do not damage the fiberglass, so we are curious as to what these bolts actually fasten to.
Thank you so much for your help, as always.
Mickey
Mickey
1977 Kingsley, 403, Lansing, MI
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| Re: Removing the black tank [message #228354 is a reply to message #228347] |
Sun, 03 November 2013 20:44  |
Craig Lechowicz
Messages: 541
Registered: October 2006
Location: Waterford, MI
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Mickey,
I haven't had my black tank out yet. (Have that to look forward to in the spring). But, I have had the toilet flange off. On mine, they were very rusty wood screws that went through the fiberglass shower floor, and then into the plywood beneath it. I think I only got one or two screws out whole. I figured toilet flanges are cheap. (Most rv places have them.) Drilled the heads off the stripped/rusted screws and into the flange a bit. Then, there was enough flex in the top of the black tank to pry the flange up enough to turn it loose over the top of the headless screw shafts sticking up. Once the flange was off, I was able to use vice grips to screw out the remaining screws. It goes together much easier with a new flange and stainless steel screws, which I'll appreciate when I take it apart again this spring.
Craig Lechowicz
'77 Kingsley, Waterford, MI
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| Re: Removing the black tank [message #228356 is a reply to message #228347] |
Sun, 03 November 2013 20:50 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Mickey,
The drains may have been changed since new -- but here is Emery's photo album showing the kitchen drain and location. The bath sink drain is behind the rear wall of the shower module.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g3276-kitchen-sink-drain-to-holding-tank.html
Bath sink drain...there may be a chase that allow access without removing the wall. My 73 had an access -- but I removed the wall later for more plumbing work.
This is Wallys's photo.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/power-level-valve-fitting/p13156.html]
Yes, the eight screws are often rusted and folks use all sorts of devices to remove. They are long wood screws into the plywood below.
Here are Kelvin's photos on removing the toilet and screws...
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g4966-sealand-210.html
Once you get them out -- if your flange does screw into the top of the black tank, you can use this home made tool to remove it.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/gmc-special-purpose-tools/p37671-0067.html
Hope this helps.
Dennis
| mickey szilagyi wrote on Sun, 03 November 2013 20:04 |
Hello all:
We are needing to remove our black tank to fix a crack in the bottom as well as try to seal up the drain holes because of mice that keep getting inside the coach.
We loosened the two brackets that hold the tank up. The left side (driver's side) seems to drop without a problem, but the right side (passenger side) seems to be held up by something other than the two brackets. After reading some more in this forum, we discovered that there is a threaded flange under the toilet that threads in to the tank. We removed the toilet, and found that the flange is held in place by 8 screws.
First question is: Are there any other threaded connections to the black tank (drains, etc.), other than the toilet flange, that need to be loosened before it is dropped? For instance we realize that the sink drain and vents are attached, but we do not know how they are attached (threaded?, or slide on?).
And our second question: How are the 8 bolts in the toilet flange fastened (i.e. do they thread in to wood underneath the fiberglass bathroom floor, or are they machine threaded in to something else? In our coach, these bolts are badly rusted and so far we are not able to loosen them. We are making sure we do not damage the fiberglass, so we are curious as to what these bolts actually fasten to.
Thank you so much for your help, as always.
Mickey
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
[Updated on: Sun, 03 November 2013 21:41] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Removing the black tank [message #228362 is a reply to message #228347] |
Sun, 03 November 2013 21:38 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| mickey szilagyi wrote on Sun, 03 November 2013 21:04 |
Hello all:
We are needing to remove our black tank to fix a crack in the bottom as well as try to seal up the drain holes because of mice that keep getting inside the coach.
We loosened the two brackets that hold the tank up. The left side (driver's side) seems to drop without a problem, but the right side (passenger side) seems to be held up by something other than the two brackets. After reading some more in this forum, we discovered that there is a threaded flange under the toilet that threads in to the tank. We removed the toilet, and found that the flange is held in place by 8 screws.
First question is: Are there any other threaded connections to the black tank (drains, etc.), other than the toilet flange, that need to be loosened before it is dropped? For instance we realize that the sink drain and vents are attached, but we do not know how they are attached (threaded?, or slide on?).
And our second question: How are the 8 bolts in the toilet flange fastened (i.e. do they thread in to wood underneath the fiberglass bathroom floor, or are they machine threaded in to something else? In our coach, these bolts are badly rusted and so far we are not able to loosen them. We are making sure we do not damage the fiberglass, so we are curious as to what these bolts actually fasten to.
Thank you so much for your help, as always.
Mickey
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Mickey,
The best tool for removing the flange screws if they will come out at all is a 3/8 drive #3 phillips bit on a speed wrench (looks like a crank). That way you can lean your weight on the bit and keep it engaged so it doesn't skip out and blow out the screw engagement. (If you don't have this set, call me.)
The pictures are good, but I just cut a 2*4 to about 22" and drilled 2 holes and used the pot-flange studs to unscrew the flange from the tank.
Most Kingsleys (a GM fit coach) were a side bath and so you have a vent and the head sink and shower drains into the black tank that is almost directly aft of the toilet flange. Here's the good part. You have to take out the potable water tank to get access to it. It is supposed to be a large plastic union that will require either a pair of recently manufactured slip joint pliers or the worlds largest basin wrench to unscrew. Do not buy these. Call and make arrangements to borrow mine. (They aren't making any money sitting in my tool box.) As your also has the port side galley (mine does not) there is the other vent/drain from the galley in the bottom of the hanging locker (iirc)(closet).
You probably won't put it back together with the unions, like Emery did, the sanitary rubber couplings are massively simpler to manage.
Call me if you have questions.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Removing the black tank [message #230565 is a reply to message #228347] |
Wed, 20 November 2013 20:18 |
mickey szilagyi
Messages: 273
Registered: January 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Thanks everybody for the help. Yep you were right, we unscrewed the toilet flange (loosened the 8 wood screws in it and removed those first -- they went, as you mentioned they were only screwed in to wood), and the tank dropped. It looks like the fitting where the shower drain goes to (near the toilet drain) is just a slip fitting (no threads). The fitting on the other side (kitchen sink drain) was also a standard slip joint that can be tightened, however I don't see how it could ever be tightened as it's just above the tank and under the flange that sits just above the plywood floor, so there is no way to get to it to tighten that we know of.
Unfortunately we found an additional two cracks that go through the ring that the toilet drain goes to, so we may look at taking it in for an estimate to have it plastic welded. Still tossing that idea around as we are afraid of future cracks as it seems to be fairly brittle.
The last question I have though is regarding something we found after removing the tank. Above where the black tank was, part of the aluminum sheet is cut and the piece left hanging there, I think right were the shower drain trap is. It seems to be right above where there is an indentation in the black tank. The piece of aluminum cannot be pressed back in to place as the trap or whatever is sticking down too far. The part that sticks down is soft foam. It's easier to see a pic, which we have posted here:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/black-tank-repair/p51608-mystery-cut-out-in-aluminum.html
Does anybody know what this could be and if this would have been done at the factory, or by a previous owner? It is very odd and we are trying to figure out how to seal this up so that it is not left open.
Thank you as always.... we will post the results on the tank itself as soon as we figure this out.
Mickey
Mickey
1977 Kingsley, 403, Lansing, MI
[Updated on: Wed, 20 November 2013 20:31] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Removing the black tank [message #230576 is a reply to message #230565] |
Wed, 20 November 2013 21:53 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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| mickey szilagyi wrote on Wed, 20 November 2013 20:18 |
Thanks everybody for the help. Yep you were right, we unscrewed the toilet flange (loosened the 8 wood screws in it and removed those first -- they went, as you mentioned they were only screwed in to wood), and the tank dropped. It looks like the fitting where the shower drain goes to (near the toilet drain) is just a slip fitting (no threads). The fitting on the other side (kitchen sink drain) was also a standard slip joint that can be tightened, however I don't see how it could ever be tightened as it's just above the tank and under the flange that sits just above the plywood floor, so there is no way to get to it to tighten that we know of.
Unfortunately we found an additional two cracks that go through the ring that the toilet drain goes to, so we may look at taking it in for an estimate to have it plastic welded. Still tossing that idea around as we are afraid of future cracks as it seems to be fairly brittle.
The last question I have though is regarding something we found after removing the tank. Above where the black tank was, part of the aluminum sheet is cut and the piece left hanging there, I think right were the shower drain trap is. It seems to be right above where there is an indentation in the black tank. The piece of aluminum cannot be pressed back in to place as the trap or whatever is sticking down too far. The part that sticks down is soft foam. It's easier to see a pic, which we have posted here:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/black-tank-repair/p51608-mystery-cut-out-in-aluminum.html
Does anybody know what this could be and if this would have been done at the factory, or by a previous owner? It is very odd and we are trying to figure out how to seal this up so that it is not left open.
Thank you as always.... we will post the results on the tank itself as soon as we figure this out.
Mickey
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Mickey,
Yes, you are looking at the bottom of the plastic tray under your shower drain. Some liken it to a meat tray.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/new-flooring/p24010-a-few-before-pictures.html
I would suspect that the cut away in the aluminum skin was done at the factory. Can you just push it up and use aluminum duct tape (not the fabic grey or green tape) to seal it?
If you cannot push it up, I think I would cut it off at the hinge end and then tape it on all four sides back to the bottom of the floor.
On my 73 the floors are one inch thick plywood (no aluminum on the bottom). The shower relief is routed through the floor and a sheet metal plate screwed to the bottom.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/73-painted-desert-230/p36329-gmc-plumbing-drain-014.html
Dennis
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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