Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Like to hear from owners who installed an Aluminum Intake and/or heads.
| Like to hear from owners who installed an Aluminum Intake and/or heads. [message #227722] |
Wed, 30 October 2013 10:29  |
Ultravan Owners
Messages: 443
Registered: March 2013
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Hello Everyone,
I have tried to search for what I am looking for. Each time I do a search I have to log back in to the site and I'm not finding what I want..
I did find where some posted they were having problems with leaks and sucking oil problems. (As if the intake might not fit well or was not made well.)
My qustions:
1) Was it worth installing the aluminum intake?
2) Did it help with low end torque and/or milage?
3) How much weight did it save from the stock intake?
(With the coach we have every little bit of weight savings helps a lot.)
4) Did you also install the aluminum heads?
5) Why did you install the heads?
6) Did the heads change/help anything?
7) How much weight did it save from stock heads?
Thank you for your help and time.
Sincerely, Tony
Tony (Ontario Canada)
Marie and I are blessed to have had a 2nd chance to buy our farm.
Still hoping and more importantly praying to be able to build a garage.
Our 1970 Ultravan #520 has an Olds Toronado 455 in back.
[Updated on: Wed, 30 October 2013 10:31] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Like to hear from owners who installed an Aluminum Intake and/or heads. [message #227757 is a reply to message #227750] |
Wed, 30 October 2013 14:08  |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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| Ultravan Owners wrote on Wed, 30 October 2013 11:32 |
What would you say is the weight savings; 15, 20 lbs, or more?
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I'm wondering how this really matters on a 12,000 pound vehicle. Even if it's a 20 pound weight savings, that would be 0.16% reduction in total vehicle weight. I suppose it's better than leaving the adult beverages at home, but I'm sure I could find a couple dozen other ways to drop 20 pounds off my coach without spending much time or money.
I was actively looking for an aluminum intake, but finally decided it wasn't necessary, and I wasn't looking forward to modifying my engine cover if it added too much height. It's good to see those with experience in the matter commenting that it really doesn't improve the performance enough to notice (so I don't have to agonize that I left some important stone unturned).
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: Like to hear from owners who installed an Aluminum Intake and/or heads. [message #227759 is a reply to message #227722] |
Wed, 30 October 2013 14:34 |
Ultravan Owners
Messages: 443
Registered: March 2013
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Mark,
Sadly I do not own a GMC. I would not mind haivng one.
What we have is a rare coach called an Ultravan. About 80 to 90% of it is aluminum with no frame/chassis and only the corners and above the driver and passenger are fiberglass.
They first came out with a Corvair drive train from the factory and one of ours weighed in at 3,620lbs.
However, towards the end of the 7 year run of making these coaches; they offered a conversion for those who wanted it.
They installed a 69 to 71 Old Toronado drive train in the back in the place of where the Corvair drive train was. They used the entire front section of the Toronado frame, suspension and power plant. The designer said if the Olds Toronado came out before the Corvair - there more than likely would have never been any Corvair Ultravans.
Weight for us is more important! That I know of there is only one like our UV520, with a Toronado 455, on the road right now. So the GMC owners have way more knowledge then I can find in our group/club. Plus it is always nice to meet others who share the same things; camping, restoring and helping one another.
If anyone would like to read more about the Ultravan try:
Ultravan History at: http://www.corvair.org/chapters/ultravan/history.html
And our club site: http://www.corvair.org/chapters/ultravan/
Again, thank you everyone for your help and support.
Sincerely, Tony
Tony (Ontario Canada)
Marie and I are blessed to have had a 2nd chance to buy our farm.
Still hoping and more importantly praying to be able to build a garage.
Our 1970 Ultravan #520 has an Olds Toronado 455 in back.
[Updated on: Wed, 30 October 2013 14:35] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Like to hear from owners who installed an Aluminum Intake and/or heads. [message #227761 is a reply to message #227757] |
Wed, 30 October 2013 14:41 |
jim kanomata
Messages: 257
Registered: March 2007
Location: fremont,ca
Karma: 12
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You were not specific about what aluminum intake your were addressing.
The one most of us are familiar with is the Rockwell Al intake.
THat is same height as the original intake .
I have installed the hi rise intake on peoples engine and have seen some gain in performance. On that one you will need to raise the floor if it is for a 455. On a 403, no need to raise the floor.
We have put on Aluminum heads on several units and that helps with power, but the cost and additional parts neded can be more than most want to spend.
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: Like to hear from owners who installed an Aluminum Intake and/or heads. [message #227767 is a reply to message #227722] |
Wed, 30 October 2013 15:00 |
Ultravan Owners
Messages: 443
Registered: March 2013
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Jim,
Our coach has some issues to deal with.
BTW - I'm a retired business owner/mechanic who worked for Chevrolet dealerships, US Army, and on my own.
Met Marie online and she twisted my arm to get me to move up here where it is so cold during the winter. Or like I like to say - At least birds are smarter than me - they go south for the winter - Here I moved up north. HA ha ha...
Anyways, it sounds like I might have a passenger side exhaust manifold leak. I need to replace the diff and oil pan due to damage.
These coaches are known for over-heating problems - so I like to up grade to a hi volume WP.
The engine compartment is very tight; making all this kind of repairs much harder to do. I might end up taking the frame and all out the bottom. While I'm at it I would like to replace all the seals I can - so I hopefully (Lord willing) will not have to take the power plant out again - during my life time. GRIN
There is oil everywhere and I know the front and rear intake gaskets can leak. Weight is important with us Ultravan owners and who knows I might find a cracked intake.
Tony
Tony (Ontario Canada)
Marie and I are blessed to have had a 2nd chance to buy our farm.
Still hoping and more importantly praying to be able to build a garage.
Our 1970 Ultravan #520 has an Olds Toronado 455 in back.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Like to hear from owners who installed an Aluminum Intake and/or heads. [message #227798 is a reply to message #227792] |
Wed, 30 October 2013 17:25 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Because I was forewarned about the possibility of gaskets shifting during
assembly, I was very careful during assembly. The first one that I did was
a comeback from another repair facility. It had massive vacuum leaks and
coolant leaks. I don't think he ran it many miles, so I don't know about
high oil consumption. There is not much casting on the lower part of the
Rockwell intake, so if the gaskets move, I could see where that might be
possible. When I do them, I inverted the manifold, coated both the gaskets
and manifold with sealant, applied the gaskets to the manifold using bolts
through the holed to align them. I left them long enough to tack up quite
firmly, then apply "right stuff" sealant to the heads where the water
passages are and also the intersection between the block, heads, and
manifold. Then, while the sealant is still fluid, carefully lower the
intake into position without sliding it around. Have not had any of them
leak when using this procedure. Goes without saying, torque the fasteners.
Jim Hupy
Salem,Or
78 Gmc Royale 403
On Oct 30, 2013 3:05 PM, "Bill Gagnier" <carnutbill@msn.com> wrote:
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> Hi Jim, did any of the motors you put manifolds on use oil? Did replacing
> the manifold cure the oil problem. thanks bill
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> Installed several of them for owners. Mostly to replace cracked iron
> manifolds. Had one aluminum manifold with a casting flaw, which was
> replaced under warranty. No issues with that. They do require the correct
> gaskets along with careful alignment. Did not notice any change in
> performance or economy. BIG DIFFERENCE in weight.
> Jim Hupy
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| Re: Like to hear from owners who installed an Aluminum Intake and/or heads. [message #227836 is a reply to message #227722] |
Wed, 30 October 2013 21:31 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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| Ultravan Owners wrote on Wed, 30 October 2013 08:29 |
Hello Everyone,
I have tried to search for what I am looking for. Each time I do a search I have to log back in to the site and I'm not finding what I want..
I did find where some posted they were having problems with leaks and sucking oil problems. (As if the intake might not fit well or was not made well.)
My qustions:
1) Was it worth installing the aluminum intake?
2) Did it help with low end torque and/or milage?
3) How much weight did it save from the stock intake?
(With the coach we have every little bit of weight savings helps a lot.)
4) Did you also install the aluminum heads?
5) Why did you install the heads?
6) Did the heads change/help anything?
7) How much weight did it save from stock heads?
Thank you for your help and time.
Sincerely, Tony
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http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6089-gary-rockwell-aluminum-intake-manifold-installation.html
I installed one about a year ago. I was careful and evidently got it sealed without any vacuum leaks. I DID have to re-seal the rear 'China wall' with some extra RTV (Right Stuff).
Since the Rockwell manifold is a copy of the original, I don't think there can be any expectation of improvements in performance or mileage. I did notice a reduction on vapor lock and gas smell from the carburetor getting overheated.
The aluminum manifold weighs considerably less, but I think the weight difference, as a percentage of the coach, is negligible.
If I had it to do over again, I'm not sure I would not just install crossover block-off plates instead. I kind of got the manifold by accident due to an ordering mix up (long story), but was given a good deal on it as a result. I like the Rockwell manifold and would have probably ended up with one eventually anyway.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: Like to hear from owners who installed an Aluminum Intake and/or heads. [message #227843 is a reply to message #227836] |
Wed, 30 October 2013 22:28 |
jim kanomata
Messages: 257
Registered: March 2007
Location: fremont,ca
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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When we work on a engine, we tend to be overly carefull as errors cost us lot of lost time.
The biggest problems occure when we use the 2 piece intake gaskets, They can slip and open up na gap for oil to be pulled in.
Just like jim Hupy, I glue down the gasket to avoid the shift.
Installing a intake on an engine stand is simple as you have more control than one in the coach.
We have used the intakes that we warrentied as a bad unit an proved it to be good.
Gary Rockwell has made some changes to allow for less critical fit.
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: Like to hear from owners who installed an Aluminum Intake and/or heads. [message #227863 is a reply to message #227722] |
Thu, 31 October 2013 08:53 |
Ultravan Owners
Messages: 443
Registered: March 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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George - Thank you for the info...
My way of thinking is in line with Espen. ggg
I have to remove the intake to replace the end gaskets - Our coach comes in around 5,500 to 6000lbs fully load and to sahve off 20 lbs of engine weight can gain me more refreshment storage. GGG
Plus I like to have EFI some day too. IF not TBI maybe even port injection and those bosses on the aluminum intake would sure look nice with some injectors sitting there. I can picture it too. GRIN
BTW - I do not recall his name; but it might be Wally, who installed port injection and I was looking at the picture in the GMC photo albums. I did send him a PM but have not heard back yet.
Is there anyone else who is running either a TBI or Port injection system on their 455?
Tony
Tony (Ontario Canada)
Marie and I are blessed to have had a 2nd chance to buy our farm.
Still hoping and more importantly praying to be able to build a garage.
Our 1970 Ultravan #520 has an Olds Toronado 455 in back.
[Updated on: Thu, 31 October 2013 08:54] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Like to hear from owners who installed an AluminumIntake and/or heads. [message #227864 is a reply to message #227850] |
Thu, 31 October 2013 08:52 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Espen,
The carb mounting area on the Rockwell Aluminum manifold is exactly the same as the OEM.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
-----Original Message-----
From: Espen Heitmann
Nice tread :)
I am thinking of buying a alu manifold for two reason, first the weight, we have very strickt weight polocies here and with a -73
you do not have much to go on, it will give me 20 punds extra on something else.
The second reason is the possibility to mount a squarebore unit with no adapter or atleast a very thin one, perfect for my plan to
add an aftermarket TBI unit in the future.
--
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Like to hear from owners who installed an Aluminum Intake and/or heads. [message #227872 is a reply to message #227738] |
Thu, 31 October 2013 09:34 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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| ljdavick wrote on Wed, 30 October 2013 10:00 |
Tony,
My cast iron intake manifold was cracked and the aluminum manifold was the best solution.
I should be concerned about weight reduction, however this wasn't a factor in my decision.
No appreciable increase in horsepower, torque, economy that I could measure.
Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
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I hav a 455.
My experience is exactly the same as Larry's. It sure is easier lifting it in an out. I say in and out because I had trouble getting mine to seal on the intake ports. If you put one in, check, recheck and recheck the match of the ports to port and gasket to port. The aluminum intake looks very tidy
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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