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| Re: Front Clip Surprise! [message #227271 is a reply to message #227222] |
Sun, 27 October 2013 20:03   |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Now you get to look for the thin spots to repair. I ran into this with my front subframe.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6096-front-subframe-repair.html
The holes showed up after the frame was chemically rust stripped and E-Coated. This was a surprise as I had gone over the frame with a ball peen hammer looking for any rust damage. I could find none. After I found the rust damage I again tried to confirm it with the ball-peen. It turns out the most effective method to find the thin spots was by rapping the frame with my knuckles.
I was really PO'd as now I had to clean off the e-coat, weld on patches and reinforcements and then paint and internally coat. I also put in drain holes so water cannot accumulate in these areas. (The need for these drain holes has been extensively discussed a few years ago.)
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: Front Clip Surprise! [message #227280 is a reply to message #227276] |
Sun, 27 October 2013 20:40 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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Drain holes??
I has searching to do!
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: Front Clip Surprise! [message #227289 is a reply to message #227222] |
Sun, 27 October 2013 21:39 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Reference what noi wrote on Sun, 27 October 2013 15:10
As many of you already know, I am a ship's engineer by trade (and lots of other stuff along the way). Leave it to say that I have pounded a few rust flakes loose in the years before I was licensed and didn't have to do the dirty work any longer. I was continually distressed by the thickness of rust flakes when I knew just how thick the steel hull plating was and my running assumption was there was maybe not very much left between me and the ocean on the other side. This did worry me some.
Flash forward a few year.....
The "Kid" is now a midshipman at a school just for such fools as I. There was a semester long class as just one part of chemistry course that was only concerned with corrosion. At the start of the steel section (we covered non-ferrous in the first couple of weeks) Prof. Dr. Hess stood at the board and wrote:
FeO2 = Black and Solid
Fe2O3 = Brown, Soft and Highly Hydroscopic - for about 5 minutes
Fe2O3*5H2O = Brown flaky scale that you will see a lot of.....
He then did some alchemical magic in front of us and turned some big flakes of rust into little tiny pieces of dull metal. He then explained that the big flakes are only about 20% metal by weight. So, those flakes that I had chipped off were about five times thicker than the steel that they represented.
This was very comforting to someone that would spend another bunch of years on rusting steel ships.
So, you got out a couple of pound of rust, and there may be another pound in there, but that just does not represent all that much metal.
Matt - limping his computers along
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Front Clip Surprise! [message #227297 is a reply to message #227222] |
Sun, 27 October 2013 22:40 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Carl,
On old MG's -- after the rust is out -- they often flood with Waxoyl -- I like Penetrol (available in the paint department) and use it for surface treatment as well as spraying into frames and such. Be prepared for it to leak out for a few days if you flood generously.
Dennis
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: Front Clip Surprise! [message #227324 is a reply to message #227222] |
Mon, 28 October 2013 07:39 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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About 25 years ago, I was faced with repairing some MOPAR panels and frame rails that had rusted out. After the repair, I needed to figure out how to keep it from rusting again.
What I came up with is a cheap garden sprayer. If you take the nozzle off the hose end, they have a end with 4 holes, 90 degrees apart. I added a length of vacuum hose between the tank and the nozzle and thinned down some POR15 and put it in the tank. Put the nozzle in through a small hole and pulled/pushed it through the areas I could not reach a few times until it ran out. Worked great. Make sure you put plastic/cardboard down where it will leak out or you'll mess up your floor.
POR15 is great stuff. It converts rust as well as sealing it so oxygen can't get to it. No O2=no more rusting.
One caution however, NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, will remove POR15 from your skin except time. Wear gloves any time you get near the stuff. I once went to a meeting with the CEO of a company that I had just sold a million dollar consulting order with black spots all over my hands and under my fingernails. Embarrassed me to no end.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: Front Clip Surprise! [message #227327 is a reply to message #227309] |
Mon, 28 October 2013 07:54 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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| noi wrote on Mon, 28 October 2013 00:20 |
Matt:
Thanks for the "alchemy" lesson, it did enhance my comfort level - After looking at that pile of rust, my first thought was.... Good Golly.... Is there ANYTHING left!
Dennis:
I already have a nice surface treatment chemical that I like and seems to work pretty well (Corroseal for those curious) - I used it on all the exposed rear frame parts, along with an enamel topcoat.
But I was concerned about what to do for the inside of the front clip, which I can't get to with the Corroseal/topcoat.
I did do some net-searching and saw reference's to Waxoyl (seems difficult to come by though), and how to make it at home, along with the Penetrol.
How often does Waxoyl/Penetrol need to be reapplied?
I was considering this product from Eastwood:
http://www.jegs.com/i/Eastwood/352/26060Z/10002/-1
No idea how well it works and did plan on some more net-searching before making a final selection, but open to all suggestions.
Thanks - Carl P.
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Carl,
Reapplication of Penetrol is really an individual choice. A lot of unibody cars -- once before you add upholstery -- frames and such, some like to try and treat every 4-5 years. May just be a peace of mind treatment, depending upon vehicle usage and conditions. I know some people who use it on the previously painted surface of tractors and trucks and claim it is still effective 8 years later. I use a hand pump spray or a brush to apply.
Dennis
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
[Updated on: Mon, 28 October 2013 07:55] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Front Clip Surprise! [message #227349 is a reply to message #227297] |
Mon, 28 October 2013 11:08 |
g.winger
Messages: 792
Registered: February 2008
Location: Warrenton,Missouri
Karma: 0
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This also happened to me. I did a full pull to install the Caddy, Hubler, new Manny tranny and all the rest rebuilt. New 3/8 lines. etc. I also used this time to eliminate anything that would burn. Like rubber and insulation on wire. Sooooo,,,, instead of grinding and sanding all those turns. I was going to take the bare frame to a sandblaster. Not wanting to use the heavy 18" trailer I used my small one. But it has those side rails. The frame wouldn't fit very well so I flipped it. 2 man job by the way. When we stood it verticle a bunch of rust came out the legs. About half as much as yours. Thats it. Decision made. galvanized!!! Now,,,,some advice. Might have just skipped the sandblast. The galvanizing place might be able to strip it. AND if you are installing a diffrent motor. Don't use a 1/8 inch hole drilled into the frame to mark center of the 403. Use something bigger. I think the blast was 150 and the galvanize was 325 or 350. GL,,,,,PL
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| Re: Front Clip Surprise! [message #227351 is a reply to message #227309] |
Mon, 28 October 2013 11:11 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Also consider eastwoods internal frame coating. If I was doing it again I think I would use the rust product and then follow it with the internal frame coat.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: Front Clip Surprise! [message #227361 is a reply to message #227324] |
Mon, 28 October 2013 11:48 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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| Kerry Pinkerton wrote on Mon, 28 October 2013 05:39 |
... I once went to a meeting with the CEO of a company that I had just sold a million dollar consulting order with black spots all over my hands and under my fingernails. Embarrassed me to no end.
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Depends on what subject the "consulting" was about. For example: If it was about something mechanical, it should have been a good sign to the CEO... they sent a man who is not afraid to get his hands dirty!
But if it was say... accounting. I can understand your embarrassment.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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