Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Who is Charles Woods, Sr. <unhijack thread>
| [GMCnet] Who is Charles Woods, Sr. <unhijack thread> [message #226122] |
Fri, 18 October 2013 14:47  |
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cbwoodsr
Messages: 1063
Registered: February 2004
Karma: 0
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I'll tell you who is Charles Wood, Sr...Mr Bound
I am a GMC owner who has put up with everbody doing his own thing
and then limiting access to it and then saying why dont we support the vendors.
Thats exactly why I am putting the GMC Parts Online and links to other GMC related items in one site.
I FULLY support using the GMC dealers FIRST and am trying to get an accessable site for doing so but I also realize the fact that GMC owners can go to NAPA and get an oil filter rather than trying to get it from a 'Dealer'..
ALL GMC people can input/edit/etc parts in the system.
I purposely added links to JimK's online site complete with pictures on line directly to the page where one could order the part from him. I also contacted him and Nick giving them logins to check it out. I have also added some with links to your site based off your pages to also allow DIRECT links for purchasing from you. However it is hard to find out what you have to offer from the site.
I have also added some for Miguel's parts.
Unfortunately, my HD broke and I lost some data and I am in process of restoring the site and continuing to add more to the site. Much of the data in the system comes directly from GMC owners and traffic from the forum.
The site has links to BDub's Vendors page, to the 78z Parts manual, to the wiring diagrams and also allows searching not only the parts information, but also the Forum which I coordinated with Eugene first.
The pictures come from the GMCmhphoto site and if I cant find a particular picture say for a part, then I use the picture from a site that has it.
I have also attempted to show a random picture of a GMC on the initial pages which I have a few pictures of so that others could submit their pictures to show also..
Before crying wolf and saying the sky is falling, (.....promote buying parts for GMC's outside the GMC dealer structure? I, in no way, support those efforts or condone the use of images from my web site to promote encouraging folks to buy parts outside of the people we need to support to keep our motohomes on the road.
) why dont you contact me first and find out what the deal is??
YOU also have the capability to add/edit/etc parts into the system if you so desire, I would be glad to work with you to add these if you have a catalog of what is available, which would have DIRECT links to your site for purchase.
I am a retired 23year combat airforce veteran who understands 'teamwork' and working together.
So.. if your ameniable to that, lets get together and support our GMC owners who need this information especially the newbies which in turn also supports our vendors...
Some of them have no idea of who the vendors are, where they are, and what they have.
What do you say, Mr Bounds, would you like to work together and benefit all or not?
Thankx
CBW
I would have responded sooner, but you hijacked a thread so I didnt see your post.
AND I do buy stuff from the Jim's first.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CBWood
77 Kingslay
MWC OK
ONLINE PARTS PROGRAM
http://cbwoodsr.no-ip.org/GMCParts/index.asp
CBWood
77 Kingslay
MWC OK
ONLINE PARTS PROGRAM
www.GMCMHParts.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Who is Charles Woods, Sr. <unhijack thread> [message #226143 is a reply to message #226122] |
Fri, 18 October 2013 17:01  |
jim kanomata
Messages: 257
Registered: March 2007
Location: fremont,ca
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Charles,
It would have been better if you could have built up an dialog with us and explained to us your thoughts on the project.
I know Jim B and I are not the type to stop long enough to see or hear the whole picture and jump to conclusions.
Both of us spend considerable time on the phone with people and venders, so were running around without slowing down to hear the real message.
Your name and contact came up at our International meetings, but none of us could begin to add anything other than that your not an International member.
All I know is that I received a mail and could not open it properly, so I deleted and forget about it.
Should you get an opportunity to contact me by phone on our toll free line, I can ask you the usual stupid questions and bring m up to the correct level.
I dal with numerous people at all levels and do ell at that, but E mail is seldom used as it becomes a one way communication .
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Who is Charles Woods, Sr. <unhijack thread> [message #226204 is a reply to message #226122] |
Sat, 19 October 2013 10:37 |
Jim Galbavy
Messages: 1443
Registered: August 2007
Karma: 7
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Even with good intentions, this is what happens when you take pictures, data and the such off someone elses internet site or printed pages without permission. When you first posted here what you wanted to do, some of us told you to get approval for lifting the info and also that once you post it you are responsible for the accuracy of the info and keeping it current.
Any neebie (I was one once) knows how to GOOGLE. With just that tool, anyone can find parts, sources and even motorhomes for sale. That is how I found my GMC over 10 years ago.
jim galbavy
'73 x-CL ANNIE
Lake Mary, FL
[Updated on: Sat, 19 October 2013 10:38] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Who is Charles Woods, Sr. <unhijack thread> [message #226207 is a reply to message #226122] |
Sat, 19 October 2013 11:11 |
rcjordan
Messages: 1913
Registered: October 2012
Location: Elizabeth City, North Car...
Karma: 1
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I used to run a lot of image-driven sites and a couple of databases. As for the images taken by the vendors themselves, I don't think you qualify for copyright fair use.
http://libguides.mit.edu/usingimages
Just a database of descriptions and part numbers, however, gets far murkier. The courts have ruled that no matter if the owner has put tons of work in collecting and publishing a database it may qualify as not-subject-to-copyright. This is particularly true of phone book info and parts lists. Subject to an individual's interpretation, some other databases, such as the GMCMHI parts list, could be fair use.
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/types-databases-that-cant-be-protected.html
SOLD 77 Royale Coachmen Side Dry Bath
76 Birchaven Coachmen Side Wet Bath
76 Eleganza
Elizabeth City, NC
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| Re: [GMCnet] Who is Charles Woods, Sr. <unhijack thread> [message #226211 is a reply to message #226122] |
Sat, 19 October 2013 11:36 |
rcjordan
Messages: 1913
Registered: October 2012
Location: Elizabeth City, North Car...
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>true
While I agree that would be nice, Jim, the reality is that some "history trail" may be better than nothing --particularly when it comes to cross-referencing increasingly obscure parts. At any rate, the date of the database should be clearly marked, IMO.
Case in point: I just spent in excess of 20 hours online cross-referencing some needed parts for a 4-post lift. No single source had the information but, thankfully, there were three sites with old parts sheets online and I was able to follow the trail from the old numbers to the new replacement parts.
SOLD 77 Royale Coachmen Side Dry Bath
76 Birchaven Coachmen Side Wet Bath
76 Eleganza
Elizabeth City, NC
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| Re: [GMCnet] Who is Charles Woods, Sr. <unhijack thread> [message #226213 is a reply to message #226122] |
Sat, 19 October 2013 11:43 |
rcjordan
Messages: 1913
Registered: October 2012
Location: Elizabeth City, North Car...
Karma: 1
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>this is all BS
We've addressed this issue of how best to protect the breed many times before. The camps clearly and quickly divide on the issue. Someone could easily screenscrape every site out there from bdub's, to the clubs, to Gene's, to the vendors in a matter of days and repackage it and it would be of great benefit for some.
It's all fun and games until the C&D arrives.
SOLD 77 Royale Coachmen Side Dry Bath
76 Birchaven Coachmen Side Wet Bath
76 Eleganza
Elizabeth City, NC
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| Re: [GMCnet] Who is Charles Woods, Sr. <unhijack thread> [message #226222 is a reply to message #226207] |
Sat, 19 October 2013 12:08 |
Mike Teets
Messages: 299
Registered: January 2004
Location: Dublin, OH
Karma: 0
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The courts have repeatedly ruled in favor of the indexing agents/scrapers
dating back to Fiest v. Rural Telephone in 1991. This is especially true
for content posted to the open web. Without a site owner being explicit
about its copyright claims, and without restricting access through
mechanical means (logins, robots.txt, watermarks, etc.) a site owner is
giving tacit permission to reuse this content.
It is good "netiquette" to link directly to the source, and provide some
sort of attribution. It is also bad netiquette for a site owner to grant
unfettered access to sites like Google and Bing, but then attempt to
restrict access to small niche providers who are providing essentially
improved discovery services.
On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 12:11 PM, RC Jordan <rc@rcjordan.com> wrote:
>
>
> I used to run a lot of image-driven sites and a couple of databases. As
> for the images taken by the vendors themselves, I don't think you qualify
> for copyright fair use.
> http://libguides.mit.edu/usingimages
>
> Just a database of descriptions and part numbers, however, gets far
> murkier. The courts have ruled that no matter if the owner has put tons of
> work in collecting and publishing a database it may qualify as
> not-subject-to-copyright. This is particularly true of phone book info and
> parts lists. Subject to an individual's interpretation, some other
> databases, such as the GMCMHI parts list, could be fair use.
>
>
> http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/types-databases-that-cant-be-protected.html
> --
> 77 Royale Coachmen Side Dry Bath
> 76 Birchaven Coachmen Side Wet Bath
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Mike, GMCing since 2002
77 Palm Beach, 260, 403
Dublin, OH
http://teamteets.com/gmc/
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| Re: [GMCnet] Who is Charles Woods, Sr. <unhijack thread> [message #226224 is a reply to message #226222] |
Sat, 19 October 2013 12:13 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Thank goodnes for the delete button.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Mike Teets <teamteets@gmail.com> wrote:
> The courts have repeatedly ruled in favor of the indexing agents/scrapers
> dating back to Fiest v. Rural Telephone in 1991. This is especially true
> for content posted to the open web. Without a site owner being explicit
> about its copyright claims, and without restricting access through
> mechanical means (logins, robots.txt, watermarks, etc.) a site owner is
> giving tacit permission to reuse this content.
>
> It is good "netiquette" to link directly to the source, and provide some
> sort of attribution. It is also bad netiquette for a site owner to grant
> unfettered access to sites like Google and Bing, but then attempt to
> restrict access to small niche providers who are providing essentially
> improved discovery services.
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 12:11 PM, RC Jordan <rc@rcjordan.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I used to run a lot of image-driven sites and a couple of databases. As
> > for the images taken by the vendors themselves, I don't think you qualify
> > for copyright fair use.
> > http://libguides.mit.edu/usingimages
> >
> > Just a database of descriptions and part numbers, however, gets far
> > murkier. The courts have ruled that no matter if the owner has put tons
> of
> > work in collecting and publishing a database it may qualify as
> > not-subject-to-copyright. This is particularly true of phone book info
> and
> > parts lists. Subject to an individual's interpretation, some other
> > databases, such as the GMCMHI parts list, could be fair use.
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/types-databases-that-cant-be-protected.html
> > --
> > 77 Royale Coachmen Side Dry Bath
> > 76 Birchaven Coachmen Side Wet Bath
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Who is Charles Woods, Sr. <unhijack thread> [message #226250 is a reply to message #226239] |
Sat, 19 October 2013 19:09 |
jim kanomata
Messages: 257
Registered: March 2007
Location: fremont,ca
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Charles and I spoke on the phone and found lot of misunderstandings on our side.
Once we bridge the gap, I know we will appreciate what Charles is bringing to the table.
Whenever we get things straight, this issue will be resolved.
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Who is Charles Woods, Sr. <unhijack thread> [message #226251 is a reply to message #226239] |
Sat, 19 October 2013 19:14 |
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cbwoodsr
Messages: 1063
Registered: February 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Please re-read my postings...
The photos came from the GMCMHPhoto site..
NOT JimB's site and were only pictures of a few GMC's, no site data, etc...
....Without a site owner being explicit
> about its copyright claims, and without restricting access through
> mechanical means (logins, robots.txt, watermarks, etc.) a site owner is
> giving tacit permission to reuse this content.
JimB has a restricted area you must login to...>
> It is good "netiquette" to link directly to the source, and provide some
> sort of attribution. It is also bad netiquette for a site owner to grant
> unfettered access to sites like Google and Bing, but then attempt to
> restrict access to small niche providers who are providing essentially
> improved discovery services.
>
I have done this for a living for 40+ years,am familiar with with what legal concerns are/etc..
...My two cents the photos and information where posted by Jim B.
For one thing, JimB is not complaining about information from his site, Just a couple photos from the GMCMHPhoto site that are also on his site..and a rampant notion that anything outside of the 'dealers' area or a clubs area is trying to direct everything away from them..Nothing has been definitively identified.
Guys.. lets put this to rest.. JImB made some hasty comments and I dont hold them against him, I fully intend to assist in anyway to support our vendors.
Thats what the OLP is for, to keep track of our available parts and integrated links to the appropriate vendors..
...All is well with my Lord
You might do some research in this area.
other comments from GMC'ers
...Somehow the GMC club folks think that they have exclusive ownership of information about the GMC parts even when the vast majority were not found by them. They are chasing a model that depends on pre-web limited access to information.
Nuf said..lets get back to GMCs
Thankx
CBW
CBWood
77 Kingslay
MWC OK
ONLINE PARTS PROGRAM
www.GMCMHParts.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Who is Charles Woods, Sr. <unhijack thread> [message #226283 is a reply to message #226271] |
Sun, 20 October 2013 13:18 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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| Jim Galbavy wrote on Sun, 20 October 2013 09:44 |
...how do you verify the information you are using?
...
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Probably the exact same way that everyone else that has posted info about the GMCs on the web has. Lets be honest. There is a metric TON of info out there. In several dozen different locations. Much of it is incomplete, inaccurate, and out of date. Not to say or imply that it is of no value. On the contrary, it is quite valuable...out of date or not.
What Charles is trying to do, is make a web site that brings all these disparate sites information to a single, common format. At least that is what I think his goal is.
Is it perfect? No. Is it finished? No. Does it hurt anyone? Not that I can tell. At least no one that has taken the time to read the multiple posts where he explains what he is attempting to do.
Charles' comment about not knowing what JimB has for sale is valid. Personally, I'm not going to waste Jim's time (or mine), calling him to see if he has a particular widget only to see that Jim K has it cheaper. That's just me but it's Jim's business model and a lot of us wore the green (or blue) to support his right to run his business any way he wants to. Jim K get's most my business because I know what he has and what it costs.
All that aside, I'm not going to order a part from anyone when I can drive 2 miles and get it off the shelf at my local parts store. I want them to stay in business also. I could order most my 'common' stuff off the internet cheaper than I can get it down the road but I choose to support local businesses when I can...although I'm not stupid about it.
I couldn't find Jim Bounds original post but I don't see anything at all that Charles is trying to do that should upset any of our vendors. Basically it's an online and enhanced GMC parts list not much different from the GMCMI parts list.
Just my opinion but I don't see any reason for anyone to jump on Charles back.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: [GMCnet] Who is Charles Woods, Sr. <unhijack thread> [message #226302 is a reply to message #226271] |
Sun, 20 October 2013 16:16 |
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cbwoodsr
Messages: 1063
Registered: February 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Maintenance on aircraft is different than a GMC... They fall out of the air when something goes wrong...(23 yrs Air Force, C-130's/etc)
...How do you verify the information you are using?
I dont; WE do. Its for us. Thats why ANYONE can add/EDIT/etc the information(as dangerous as it sounds).
...I couldn't find Jim Bounds original post
Thread started here..(Wont repeat thread)
http://gmc.mybirdfeeder.net/GMCforum/index.php?t=tree&th=28428&start=0&rid=80
My intention for the system is as follows.
You have a failed part in hand.
You go to the OLP (OnlinePart Program)
You look it up in the 78Z parts list link. You find it.
You search the Parts Area for the Partnumber from the 78Z list.
You find part and see if there is one or more available(multiple entries or not).
If available,(Where Available) and say, it's from JimK, it will have a link called 'GO' besides the WhereAvailable field you can click on.
You click on it and it takes you to JimK's site, to HIS web site, to the part in his listing which has the info/picture for the part including price/etc.
You add it to your cart; check out/pay for the part and it is shipped to you
ALL from one place, Nobody in between. More sales traffic for our vendors..
The OLP also has other links for info you can use; ie: BlackListMAP; search Eugene's Forum postings for postings related to your need/etc...
Being supported by the GMC community (or just me), the info will then become 'revelent'
Sound far fetched?
More capability available..
One Stop Shopping..
Who da thought...
Thankx
CBW
CBWood
77 Kingslay
MWC OK
ONLINE PARTS PROGRAM
www.GMCMHParts.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Who is Charles Woods, Sr. <unhijack thread> [message #226352 is a reply to message #226302] |
Mon, 21 October 2013 00:44 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| cbwoodsr wrote on Sun, 20 October 2013 16:16 |
Maintenance on aircraft is different than a GMC... They fall out of the air when something goes wrong...(23 yrs Air Force, C-130's/etc)
...How do you verify the information you are using?
I dont; WE do. Its for us. Thats why ANYONE can add/EDIT/etc the information(as dangerous as it sounds).
...I couldn't find Jim Bounds original post
Thread started here..(Wont repeat thread)
http://gmc.mybirdfeeder.net/GMCforum/index.php?t=tree&th=28428&start=0&rid=80
My intention for the system is as follows.
You have a failed part in hand.
You go to the OLP (OnlinePart Program)
You look it up in the 78Z parts list link. You find it.
You search the Parts Area for the Partnumber from the 78Z list.
You find part and see if there is one or more available(multiple entries or not).
If available,(Where Available) and say, it's from JimK, it will have a link called 'GO' besides the WhereAvailable field you can click on.
You click on it and it takes you to JimK's site, to HIS web site, to the part in his listing which has the info/picture for the part including price/etc.
You add it to your cart; check out/pay for the part and it is shipped to you
ALL from one place, Nobody in between. More sales traffic for our vendors..
The OLP also has other links for info you can use; ie: BlackListMAP; search Eugene's Forum postings for postings related to your need/etc...
Being supported by the GMC community (or just me), the info will then become 'revelent'
Sound far fetched?
More capability available..
One Stop Shopping..
Who da thought...
Thankx
CBW
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It sounds great. It also sounds like a lot of initial work for you setting this up. Finally people resist change. The "it worked for me this way in 1990 or 1980" syndrome is alive and well around here. So there will be some resistance, but not complete resistance, to using your creation.
Keep up the good work. I hope you get it done and it is well accepted.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Who is Charles Woods, Sr. <unhijack thread> [message #226368 is a reply to message #226122] |
Mon, 21 October 2013 08:33 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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I've watched this whole thread with interest but haven't yet commented.
It's interesting to see that from an initial frantic "Chicken Little..."
paradigm, a rational, reasonable discussion has evolved. That doesn't
always happen here. So, hoping not to stir the pot again, I'd like to
explain how I see the situation:
Jim B, Jim K, Alex & Jeff Sirum, Tom Hampton, Manny, Ken Frye, DJ
Eberhardt, Gateway, Cinnabar, Miguel, and other less prominent players I'm
skipping, perform an invaluable service to all of us, whether we ever do
business with them directly or not. They provide a reservoir of knowledge
which they mostly share unstintingly. Perhaps more importantly, they
discover and/or develop sources for parts which are difficult to impossible
to locate elsewhere. For those contributions, we collectively and
individually owe them thanks. The best way to offer those thanks is with
our business.
However, the simple facts of life, economics, human nature, and essential
self-interest mean that it is not reasonable to expect any of us to make
all of our purchases through those vendors. Nor would most of them expect
us to do so. In fact, except for those who can be "walk-in" customers,
most of us probably will, or even should, buy from them only those
GMC-unique parts which are not readily available from local sources. It
frankly makes no sense whatsoever to pay today's exorbitant shipping costs
for items which can be bought from a local store with no shipping add-on --
even if "it will be here in the morning". Squandering of resources in that
way benefits no one. Those wasted dollars are not available to send to our
GMC specialists for their unique products. And it's those unique products
on which vendors can, and should, make a reasonable profit -- they CANNOT
expect a reasonable profit on items for which they compete with AutoZone.
Add those shipping costs and they become absurdly non-competitive. Anyone
who does not recognize that needs to precisely define what they consider
should be ordered from GMC-unique vendors -- Batteries? Motor Oil? Spark
Plugs?
So, what about CB Wood's on-line parts list? I consider it a great boon to
the community and one which everyone, vendors included, should support. If
every GMC-unique part was listed, with the GMC vendor source included,
purchases of those items would naturally flow to those vendors. If every
non-unique part was listed (probably WITHOUT sources) then everyone could
make rational local purchase decisions -- WITHOUT calling the GMC vendors
and wasting their valuable time. That, it seems to me would benefit
everyone.
As for the GMCMI Parts Interchange List, I personally would like to see it
merged into CB's list, or vice-versa, and open to everyone (or perhaps a
CBWood Subscription Service). But until there's a viable open-source
alternative, I don't expect that to happen. If enough GMCMI MEMBERS wanted
it to, it would. Non-members don't get to vote. :-)
So, I argue that there's no basis for any antagonism to CB and his project;
rather EVERYONE should support it.
JMHO,
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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