| [GMCnet] Fan clutch. [message #224471] |
Thu, 03 October 2013 20:49  |
BobDunahugh
Messages: 2465
Registered: October 2010
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Karma: 11
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I've all ways had good luck with Hayden. Till now. My original GM locked up finally. So I got a Hayden sever duty before going to Branson. On the way home. It was engaged most of the time. Even at 65 degrees. At 65 MPH. The GM one is twice the price. I like buying GM parts. This maybe that time again. Is Emery's part #, a GM? I refuse to buy Communist Chines parts.
Bob Dunahugh USMC
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fan clutch. [message #224489 is a reply to message #224471] |
Fri, 04 October 2013 03:35  |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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The GM 15-4644 and 15-4208 were being made in the Delphi (former division of GM) Ohio plant a few years back when I dealt with them. I can not guarantee that this is still true in 2013.
I have a spare 15-4208 but I do not know when it was made. The box says "Made in the USA".
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fan clutch. [message #224495 is a reply to message #224489] |
Fri, 04 October 2013 07:16 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Are you interested in selling your 15-4208 Ken ??
Ray
Ray & Lisa
78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
________________________________
From: Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Friday, October 4, 2013 3:35 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Fan clutch.
The GM 15-4644 and 15-4208 were being made in the Delphi (former division of GM) Ohio plant a few years back when I dealt with them. I can not guarantee that this is still true in 2013.
I have a spare 15-4208 but I do not know when it was made. The box says "Made in the USA".
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fan clutch. [message #224514 is a reply to message #224507] |
Fri, 04 October 2013 09:57 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Armand,
I use Safari as my primary browser of choice and Adobe Reader as my pdf viewer. Your new presentations do not appear when I use this combination. I have to go to secondary browser FireFox and the presentations do come up. Your presentations are apparently not universal by all viewers. When I go to your GMC engine cooling issues presentation is does work!
JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion
Michigan
On Oct 4, 2013, at 10:02 AM, Armand Minnie <armand@minniebiz.com> wrote:
>
>
> J.R., go to the page where Rob's seminar is and look just below that "thanks, Rob". It may take a minute but it will display the PDF using google's pdf displayer. Does on mine.
> --
> Armand Minnie
> Marana, AZ
> '76 Eleganza II TZE166V103202
> http://www.minniebiz.com
> http://www.gmcws.org
>
> _______________________________________________
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fan clutch. [message #224536 is a reply to message #224471] |
Fri, 04 October 2013 14:34 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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I really wish we could go to an electric clutch so I could control it with a dash switch a la Peterbilt. For example you are cruising at 70 and want to hit the rest area. You slow to 55 downshift to S and then engage the fan. That dumps the road load heat soak and acts like a Jake brake at the same time. Brakes not needed if planned properly. Then if you are in stop and go traffic you engage and "head off" prime vapor lock conditions. If pulling a long grade you could engage before the temp rise needed to engage the automatic one. Problem is that our thermal viscous ones still have RPM limited slip but I think the electrics are go no go and real power robbers on up hills.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fan clutch. [message #224584 is a reply to message #224495] |
Fri, 04 October 2013 21:20 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Ask me again AFTER I sell my coach. Right now the coach is also not for sale.
Sorry.
| Ray Erspamer wrote on Fri, 04 October 2013 07:16 |
Are you interested in selling your 15-4208 Ken ??
Ray
Ray & Lisa
78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
________________________________
From: Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Friday, October 4, 2013 3:35 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Fan clutch.
The GM 15-4644 and 15-4208 were being made in the Delphi (former division of GM) Ohio plant a few years back when I dealt with them. I can not guarantee that this is still true in 2013.
I have a spare 15-4208 but I do not know when it was made. The box says "Made in the USA".
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fan clutch. [message #225125 is a reply to message #224547] |
Thu, 10 October 2013 20:03 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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| A Hamilto wrote on Fri, 04 October 2013 16:05 |
| JohnL455 wrote on Fri, 04 October 2013 14:34 |
I really wish we could go to an electric clutch so I could control it with a dash switch a la Peterbilt. For example you are cruising at 70 and want to hit the rest area. You slow to 55 downshift to S and then engage the fan. That dumps the road load heat soak and acts like a Jake brake at the same time. Brakes not needed if planned properly. Then if you are in stop and go traffic you engage and "head off" prime vapor lock conditions. If pulling a long grade you could engage before the temp rise needed to engage the automatic one. Problem is that our thermal viscous ones still have RPM limited slip but I think the electrics are go no go and real power robbers on up hills.
|
I have suggested before that the "correct" solution is the clutch fan we have, engaged by another, electric, clutch (basically identical to the electric clutch on the AC compressor) triggered by engine coolant temperature.
Comes on EXACTLY when needed, goes off when no longer needed. When engaged, spins IDENTICALLY to OEM (a little slip). No matter what brand fan you buy, it only comes on when the ACTUAL ENGINE TEMPERATURE demands it.
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Many new rear wheel drive cars/trucks still use a belt driven fan with a viscous clutch just like ours except that it is modulated with a solenoid rather than the traditional bimetallic coil. It is controlled by the PCM but you could control it manually in our application. Most are pulse width modulated for infinite control, but a simple on/off logic can work as well.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fan clutch. [message #225153 is a reply to message #225125] |
Thu, 10 October 2013 21:48 |
gbarrow2
Messages: 765
Registered: February 2004
Location: Lake Almanor, Ca./ Red Bl...
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Bob deK,
Glad to see you're still out there watching over the flock like a faithful Border Collie.
Post more often!
Gene Barrow
Lake Almanor, Ca.
1976 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fan clutch. [message #225590 is a reply to message #224471] |
Mon, 14 October 2013 09:55 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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How exactly did you modify it Bob?
Ray Erspamer
78 Royale -Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
414-484-9431
-------- Original message --------
From: Bob Heller <rheller@cfl.rr.com>
Date: 10/10/2013 10:40 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Fan clutch.
Tom,
I'm using a 2747 that's been 'slightly modified' to engage at a higher temp. It's not a Hayden, it's whatever Chinese brand Autozone sells.
Years ago I tried a 2797 and found that the difference between the engaged and disengaged speeds were far too great and the noise it made when fully engaged was far too loud. The sound reminded me of an International school bus from 1971. I think I picked up 15 horsepower just by removing the 2797! The 2797 lasted a couple of days and was exchanged for the 2747, there was no way I was going to drive a vehicle roaring like that.
The 2747 has the proper spread between engaged and disengaged speeds but at factory settings it engages too early for me. It's a long story, but I 'adjusted' the thermo spring so it comes on at a higher temp. A little bending of the spring goes a long way in making the fan clutch behave like I want it to.
I got about 6 years out of the first Chinese 2747 and replaced it this past summer because the bearing was starting to get a rumble to it. The new replacement had to have it's thermo spring 'adjusted' too.
--
Bob Heller
1974 X-Canyonlands 26ft
Winter Springs FL
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fan clutch. [message #225603 is a reply to message #225590] |
Mon, 14 October 2013 12:27 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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If you look at the bi-metal spring on the front of the clutch, you will see it anchored on the outside coil in a tab. Pull the spring out of the slot in the tab and cut a new slot next to it. Then reinsert the spring in the new slot. Unfortunately I do not remember if the new slot is clockwise or counter-clockwise from the original.
You could try bending the spring part itself. I have never done that.
Why not just buy the correct AC Delco clutch that you do not have to mess with?
As you can see I'm not too happy with the run around and all of the testing I had to do for Hayden before they admitted that they changed (lowered) the operating temperature of their clutches. I spent 1.5 years (2 summers) messing with their clutches before they owned up to their design flaw. I got good at removing and installing Haydens clutches on a GMC.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fan clutch. [message #225617 is a reply to message #225603] |
Mon, 14 October 2013 13:39 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Last week I posted about how much I liked my Hayden 2747 fan clutch that I put in 16 months ago, well this weekend it took a crap ! GEEZ !!
This subject can turn a guys brain to oatmeal. The 15-4208 is best but you can't find any. Now the ones that replaced that are supposedly made by Hayden or other companies or even China. I already have a Severe Duty 15-4644 that I won't use.
So for the 15-4208 replacement, what's the best one to buy??
I've already gone through the Hayden, one from Napa, one from Autozone and one from O'Reilly.
There has to be an electric fan setup that would work.
Ray
78 Royale - "The Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-484-9431
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
________________________________
From: Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Fan clutch.
If you look at the bi-metal spring on the front of the clutch, you will see it anchored on the outside coil in a tab. Pull the spring out of the slot in the tab and cut a new slot next to it. Then reinsert the spring in the new slot. Unfortunately I do not remember if the new slot is clockwise or counter-clockwise from the original.
You could try bending the spring part itself. I have never done that.
Why not just buy the correct AC Delco clutch that you do not have to mess with?
As you can see I'm not too happy with the run around and all of the testing I had to do for Hayden before they admitted that they changed (lowered) the operating temperature of their clutches. I spent 1.5 years (2 summers) messing with their clutches before they owned up to their design flaw. I got good at removing and installing Haydens clutches on a GMC.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fan clutch. [message #225698 is a reply to message #224471] |
Tue, 15 October 2013 00:13 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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I have found 2 superseded numbers for the 15-4208. They are 15-4947 and 15-4216
I would go after the 15-4947.
I have never seen any evidence that these Delco clutches are made by Hayden. They are made by Delfi which is a spin off division of GM. Where Delfi actually makes them today, I'm not sure now. They use to make them in Ohio.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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