GMCforum: GMCnet » Questions on fuel injection replacement

Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Questions on fuel injection replacement

Show: Today's Messages :: Polls :: Message Navigator

Questions on fuel injection replacement [message #225069]

Thu, 10 October 2013 11:31

Bob S.

Messages: 143
Registered: October 2012
Location: Rapid City, SD

Karma: 2

Senior Member

I have a 78 Royale that had the original 403 replaced with a 455. The original owner also installed an "Air Sensors" fuel injection system that I would like to replace.
I have been reading about the Howell system and see that it is highly recommended by the GMC community. It appears that the best way to go is to get the system with EBL. If I understand it correctly EBL allows you to reprogram the system for different driving conditions. My concern is that I am not very computer savvy and don't want to mess with reprogramming when traveling.
The mechanic that I use (highly trusted)recommended a system by a company called "Professional Products" that is a true wide band system and is self learning. He has used a lot of these systems in the past on off road vehicles and has had good luck with them.
I have learned to respect the knowledge and information that I find on this forum, so I would like to hear any and all comments and opinions on this.
Please understand that I am very interested in keeping the GMC vendors in business and this is not about beating them out of profits. I am trying to apply the KISS principle and install a reliable system that does not require a lot of attention while traveling. Thank you, Bob S.

Bob and Pam Schilling Rapid City, SD "78 Royale

Report message to a moderator

Re: [GMCnet] Questions on fuel injection replacement [message #225086 is a reply to message #225069]

Thu, 10 October 2013 15:02

Gary Worobec

Messages: 867
Registered: May 2005

Karma: -1

Senior Member

With the EBL you really do not re-program. It allows you to select any one
of 8 different "maps" for the system. You simply select the one you want,
hit a few keys and a new one starts up. The trick though is that you have to
design your own maps however there are any number floating around the
community that you can try. I found two that work well for me but your coach
may not like them. It really is pretty simple and by using the Tunerpro
software you can play around a bit with doing any damage.

Thanks,

Gary and Joanne Worobec
1973 GMC Glacier
Anza, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Bob Schilling
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 9:32 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Questions on fuel injection replacement

I have a 78 Royale that had the original 403 replaced with a 455. The
original owner also installed an "Air Sensors" fuel injection system that I
would like to replace.
I have been reading about the Howell system and see that it is highly
recommended by the GMC community. It appears that the best way to go is to
get the system with EBL. If I understand it correctly EBL allows you to
reprogram the system for different driving conditions. My concern is that I
am not very computer savvy and don't want to mess with reprogramming when
traveling.
The mechanic that I use (highly trusted)recommended a system by a company
called "Professional Products" that is a true wide band system and is self
learning. He has used a lot of these systems in the past on off road
vehicles and has had good luck with them.
I have learned to respect the knowledge and information that I find on
this forum, so I would like to hear any and all comments and opinions on
this.
Please understand that I am very interested in keeping the GMC vendors in
business and this is not about beating them out of profits. I am trying to
apply the KISS principle and install a reliable system that does not require
a lot of attention while traveling. Thank you, Bob S.
--
Bob and Pam Schilling
Rapid City, SD
"78 Royale

_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist

_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist

Report message to a moderator

Re: Questions on fuel injection replacement [message #225092 is a reply to message #225069]

Thu, 10 October 2013 16:27

jhb1

Messages: 303
Registered: February 2004

Karma: 0

Senior Member

Hi Bob
If you decide to remove the Airsensors system please keep me in mind as I have that system on my Royale it is been very reliable 10 plus years except for breaking the sense wire in the mass flow sensor once repaired it myself with some in chrome wire.

Bob S. wrote on Thu, 10 October 2013 12:31

John H. Bell
77 Royale; QuadBag,Manny OneTon,Honda EV4010, FITech
Montreal Qc.

Report message to a moderator

Re: Questions on fuel injection replacement [message #225097 is a reply to message #225069]

Thu, 10 October 2013 17:17

Bob S.

Messages: 143
Registered: October 2012
Location: Rapid City, SD

Karma: 2

Senior Member

Hi John, I will keep you in mind when I replace this system. It will probably be next spring before I get it done. I will have no use for most of the components after that so you're welcome to them.
The PO said that this has been very reliable, but recently it has been stalling at stop lights and then is hard to restart. My mechanic suspects mass air flow issues but with this system there are no parts available and difficult to diagnose. I am of the opinion that it is probably time to upgrade to a more advanced system. Bob S.

Bob and Pam Schilling Rapid City, SD "78 Royale

Report message to a moderator

Re: Questions on fuel injection replacement [message #225098 is a reply to message #225097]

Thu, 10 October 2013 17:29

Larry

Messages: 2875
Registered: January 2004
Location: Menomonie, WI

Karma: 10

Senior Member

Bob S. wrote on Thu, 10 October 2013 17:17

I was at a Carb shop yesterday and talked some to the owner. He installed a Edlebrock self learn system on his (I think, Roadrunner) and is very happy with it. He also showed me a Howell self learn system. I didn't spend a lot of time talking to him about them, but it might be worth looking at these systems before you decide on a system where you must use the EBL for tuning. I sure wish this kind of system was around when I started my EFI conversion. Pricey, but after you gather up all of the parts or buy a adjustable system and the EBL, it might cost as much as one of the self learn plug and play systems....just say'n....

Larry

78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.

Report message to a moderator

Re: [GMCnet] Questions on fuel injection replacement [message #225138 is a reply to message #225098]

Thu, 10 October 2013 20:37

USAussie

Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia

Karma: 6

Senior Member

G'day,

I was wondering just how desirable the "self learn" feature is? That is if you build an engine with EFI and take it to a dyno shop
and have them tune it on a dyno pulling different loads at different rpm's will the "self learn" feature make any difference over
time?

Regards,
Rob M.

_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist

Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

Report message to a moderator

Re: [GMCnet] Questions on fuel injection replacement [message #225140 is a reply to message #225138]

Thu, 10 October 2013 20:57

Larry

Messages: 2875
Registered: January 2004
Location: Menomonie, WI

Karma: 10

Senior Member

Robert Mueller wrote on Thu, 10 October 2013 20:37

I would think dynoing an engine with the self learn would be a desirable way to go. In a dino run, you could load up the engine and let the computer do the tuning at every MAP/RPM combo...something that is very hard to do with a torque converter and a road test. There are many cells that it would be almost impossible to get into that a dino run could accommodate. Just what I think...

Larry

78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.

Report message to a moderator

Re: [GMCnet] Questions on fuel injection replacement [message #225161 is a reply to message #225140]

Thu, 10 October 2013 22:58

hal kading

Messages: 642
Registered: February 2004
Location: Las Cruces NM

Karma: 4

Senior Member

I suspect dyno tuning would not address lean cruise unless you had an unusual operator. I do not know this to be true. When I had the turbo 454 dynoed it was all about making power not economy.

Hal Kading 78 Buskirk Las Cruces nm

Report message to a moderator

Re: [GMCnet] Questions on fuel injection replacement [message #225201 is a reply to message #225161]

Fri, 11 October 2013 09:39

USAussie

Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia

Karma: 6

Senior Member

G'day,

I am an EFI neophyte and don't really understand what is meant by "lean cruise" please explain.

Regards,
Rob M.

-----Original Message-----
From: Hal Kading

I suspect dyno tuning would not address lean cruise unless you had an unusual operator. I do not know this to be true. When I had
the turbo 454 dynoed it was all about making power not economy.

Hal

_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist

Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

Report message to a moderator

Re: Questions on fuel injection replacement [message #225206 is a reply to message #225069]

Fri, 11 October 2013 09:56

Bob S.

Messages: 143
Registered: October 2012
Location: Rapid City, SD

Karma: 2

Senior Member

Thank you for all of your input. I am not sure I understand exactly what the EBL does. There is a good possibility that I see it as much more of a hassle than it is, and under estimate the benefits of it. If someone could give me a simple understanding of what it does, it might make it easier to make my decision. Thanks again, Bob S.

Bob and Pam Schilling Rapid City, SD "78 Royale

Report message to a moderator

Re: [GMCnet] Questions on fuel injection replacement [message #225208 is a reply to message #225201]

Fri, 11 October 2013 10:09

Emery Stora

Messages: 959
Registered: January 2011

Karma: 4

Senior Member

Rob

The standard setup for fuel injection ( and carbs) is to provide an air/ fuel ratio of 14.7 to 1. This is the theoretical amount of air to provide a stoichiometric burning of the fuel (the amount of air to completely burn the fuel with a minimum of carbon monoxide or unburied hydrocarbons). This was an anti-pollution thing.

If a richer mixture is burned it has more pollution but the excess fuel helps cool the combustion to prevent burning valves. However, an excess amount if air will also cool the valves.

So a lean cruise provides a lower amount of (such as a 17/1 ratio) which means better gas mileage. However it is used only when cruising without a load such as climbing a hill or accelerating. The TBI/EBL system can be set so as to provide the lean cruise but override it when power enrichment is needed to prevent overheating and/or damaging the engine which can occur with a lean mixture under load.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, NM

On Oct 11, 2013, at 8:39 AM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:

> G'day,
>
> I am an EFI neophyte and don't really understand what is meant by "lean cruise" please explain.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hal Kading
>
> I suspect dyno tuning would not address lean cruise unless you had an unusual operator. I do not know this to be true. When I had
> the turbo 454 dynoed it was all about making power not economy.
>
> Hal
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist

Report message to a moderator

Re: [GMCnet] Questions on fuel injection replacement [message #225210 is a reply to message #225208]

Fri, 11 October 2013 10:22

USAussie

Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia

Karma: 6

Senior Member

Emery,

Got it!

Damn! The Blue Streak in Australia has a Holley Commander 950 EFI four barrel TBI system on it and AFAIK it does not have EBL Since
I've got a Caddy 500 that has been designed to run on AutoGas I was going to remove the Holley and put it on the Paterson Engine I
have for Double Trouble here in the USA.

Will have to do some more checking.

Regards,
Rob M.

-----Original Message-----
From: Emery Stora

Rob

The standard setup for fuel injection ( and carbs) is to provide an air/ fuel ratio of 14.7 to 1. This is the theoretical amount of
air to provide a stoichiometric burning of the fuel (the amount of air to completely burn the fuel with a minimum of carbon monoxide
or unburied hydrocarbons). This was an anti-pollution thing.

If a richer mixture is burned it has more pollution but the excess fuel helps cool the combustion to prevent burning valves.
However, an excess amount if air will also cool the valves.

So a lean cruise provides a lower amount of (such as a 17/1 ratio) which means better gas mileage. However it is used only when
cruising without a load such as climbing a hill or accelerating. The TBI/EBL system can be set so as to provide the lean cruise but
override it when power enrichment is needed to prevent overheating and/or damaging the engine which can occur with a lean mixture
under load.

Emery

_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist

Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

Report message to a moderator

Re: [GMCnet] Questions on fuel injection replacement [message #225322 is a reply to message #225069]

Sat, 12 October 2013 07:47

Steven Ferguson

Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006

Karma: 0

Senior Member

Carefully remove that old Air Sensors system and put it on EBAY. Mine sold
immediately as there are folks out there looking for them. If you don't
sell it, keep the air duct on the top of the carb, RARE and will work with
any remote air cleaner.
Steve F.

On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 9:31 AM, Bob Schilling <bschilling@rushmore.com>wrote:

>
>
> I have a 78 Royale that had the original 403 replaced with a 455. The
> original owner also installed an "Air Sensors" fuel injection system that I
> would like to replace.
> I have been reading about the Howell system and see that it is highly
> recommended by the GMC community. It appears that the best way to go is to
> get the system with EBL. If I understand it correctly EBL allows you to
> reprogram the system for different driving conditions. My concern is that I
> am not very computer savvy and don't want to mess with reprogramming when
> traveling.
> The mechanic that I use (highly trusted)recommended a system by a
> company called "Professional Products" that is a true wide band system and
> is self learning. He has used a lot of these systems in the past on off
> road vehicles and has had good luck with them.
> I have learned to respect the knowledge and information that I find on
> this forum, so I would like to hear any and all comments and opinions on
> this.
> Please understand that I am very interested in keeping the GMC vendors
> in business and this is not about beating them out of profits. I am trying
> to apply the KISS principle and install a reliable system that does not
> require a lot of attention while traveling. Thank you, Bob S.
> --
> Bob and Pam Schilling
> Rapid City, SD
> "78 Royale
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>

--
Take care,
Steve
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist

Report message to a moderator

Previous Topic:	Bogies and Frames - more "Bench Racing"
Next Topic:	Has the same lines as a GMC.. Lot older.

Goto Forum:

-=] Back to Top [=-

Current Time: Wed Aug 28 09:36:06 CDT 2024

Total time taken to generate the page: 0.03188 seconds