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| [GMCnet] Ideas, And the plane crash. [message #222394] |
Sat, 14 September 2013 09:37  |
BobDunahugh
Messages: 2465
Registered: October 2010
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
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Lots of ideas. How I have to implement. Thanks to all for the info.As to the crash. It happened 13 days ago. The plane had just been restored. It's a 1958 Cessna 182B, with lots of new upgrades. It came down due to pilot error. One error was due to the pilot. The second error was mine. I use to fly myself years ago. I'm not up to date at this time. So I wasn't in control from the other seat. My error was that I knew he was getting in trouble. I should have said something sooner. Or reacted in time.. We came down in some trees. That's really hard on the wings. GRINThe pilot, and I came out fairly well. His lady friend, and our Bichon Frise, Brandy, didn't fair as well. Both are doing well now. Brandy has been undeterred about flying.
Bob Dunahugh GMCMI Member
78 Royale4 Yenko Chevrolrts
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ideas, And the plane crash. [message #222402 is a reply to message #222394] |
Sat, 14 September 2013 10:24  |
Guy Lopes
Messages: 499
Registered: April 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
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I'm so glad that everyone survived! You still didn't tell us what happened
though Bob! Doesn't sound like a classic base-to-final stall/spin, and I
presume the wings were fairly level when you hit the trees. So what caused
the mishap?
Guy Lopes
76 Birchaven "Orion"
Sacramento, CA
www.GMC-Guy.com
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2013 7:38 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Ideas, And the plane crash.
Lots of ideas. How I have to implement. Thanks to all for the info.As to the
crash. It happened 13 days ago. The plane had just been restored. It's a
1958 Cessna 182B, with lots of new upgrades. It came down due to pilot
error. One error was due to the pilot. The second error was mine. I use to
fly myself years ago. I'm not up to date at this time. So I wasn't in
control from the other seat. My error was that I knew he was getting in
trouble. I should have said something sooner. Or reacted in time.. We came
down in some trees. That's really hard on the wings. GRINThe pilot, and I
came out fairly well. His lady friend, and our Bichon Frise, Brandy, didn't
fair as well. Both are doing well now. Brandy has been undeterred about
flying.
Bob Dunahugh GMCMI Member
78 Royale4 Yenko Chevrolrts
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Guy Lopes
76 Birchaven "Orion"
Sacramento, CA
W6TOL
www.GMC-Guy.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ideas, And the plane crash. [message #222458 is a reply to message #222394] |
Sat, 14 September 2013 19:40 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Geez... the 182 is a very forgiving airplane. And, it >will< take care of you if you stick it in the trees, at the expense of taking the wings off. Please to keep your friend out of Grumman/Americans and/or Mooneys.. they aren't nearly as forgiving. When I shot rivets for Elro, we always kept a 182 with a ruffled firewall in the shop to work on when things got slow. Common happening with them.
--johnny
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 9/14/13, Bob Dunahugh <yenko108@hotmail.com> wrote:
Subject: [GMCnet] Ideas, And the plane crash.
To: "gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org" <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Date: Saturday, September 14, 2013, 2:37 PM
Lots of ideas. How I have to implement. Thanks to all for
the info.As to the crash. It happened 13 days ago. The
plane had just been restored. It's a 1958 Cessna 182B, with
lots of new upgrades. It came down due to pilot error. One
error was due to the pilot. The second error was mine.
I use to fly myself years ago. I'm not up to date at this
time. So I wasn't in control from the other seat. My error
was that I knew he was getting in trouble. I should have
said something sooner. Or reacted in time.. We came
down in some trees. That's really hard on the wings.
GRINThe pilot, and I came out fairly well. His lady friend,
and our Bichon Frise, Brandy, didn't fair as well. Both are
doing well now. Brandy has been undeterred about flying.
Bob Dunahugh GMCMI Member
78 Royale4 Yenko Chevrolrts
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ideas, And the plane crash. [message #222479 is a reply to message #222458] |
Sun, 15 September 2013 00:12 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| Johnny Bridges wrote on Sat, 14 September 2013 19:40 |
Geez... the 182 is a very forgiving airplane. And, it >will< take care of you if you stick it in the trees, at the expense of taking the wings off. Please to keep your friend out of Grumman/Americans and/or Mooneys.. they aren't nearly as forgiving. When I shot rivets for Elro, we always kept a 182 with a ruffled firewall in the shop to work on when things got slow. Common happening with them.
--johnny
|
Are you picking on my Grumman AA5A?
I guess I deserve it after the Ranger thing.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ideas, And the plane crash. [message #222559 is a reply to message #222476] |
Sun, 15 September 2013 18:04 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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The Deadly Cascade. Never hearn of a bent airplane but what there was a cascade of events, and if you broke the cascade >anyplace< you stopped the accident. About alls you can do inadvertantly is forget to trim the nose up in a lightly loaded 182 and plunk it on the nosewheel... which ruffles the firewal if you hit hard. PIA to fix.
Glad yall are OK, particularly the dog - who had no choice on the trip :)
--johnny
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 9/15/13, Bob Dunahugh <yenko108@hotmail.com> wrote:
Subject: [GMCnet] Ideas, And the plane crash.
To: "gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org" <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Date: Sunday, September 15, 2013, 4:28 AM
The 182 is truly a vary forgiving aircraft. To make a
long story shot. And not have to make the explanation into a
short story. Basically the pilot made 4 small mistakes, that
culminated in one big issue. In life, and flight. The devil
is in the details.
Bob Dunahugh GMCMI Member
78 Royale4 Yenko Chevrolrts
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ideas, And the plane crash. [message #222563 is a reply to message #222479] |
Sun, 15 September 2013 18:13 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Never drove a 5, have some time in a 4. The bigger engine oughta be nice, and the 4 was a reasonably fogiving airplane. If you want a true E-ticket ride, take an AA1A or B >way< up in the air, blush when you cover the "intentional" placard and spin it. Pilot input is required. And I wouldn't do that in the original aa-1 for love nor money. The cuff made a much nicer airplane at the cost of maybe 2 - 3 knots at cruise. It's like running the GMC down the Tail O The Dragon here. You can do it, but it ain't an indicated activity.
If memory serves, you can spin the 182 in Utility, but not Normal (Or is it Standard? Been a while). How about the AA-5A?
--johnny
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 9/15/13, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Ideas, And the plane crash.
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Sunday, September 15, 2013, 5:12 AM
Johnny Bridges wrote on Sat, 14 September 2013 19:40
> Geez... the 182 is a very forgiving airplane. And, it
>will< take care of you if you stick it in the trees,
at the expense of taking the wings
off. Please to keep your friend out of
Grumman/Americans and/or Mooneys.. they aren't nearly as
forgiving. When I shot rivets for Elro, we always kept
a 182 with a ruffled firewall in the shop to work on when
things got slow. Common happening with them.
>
> --johnny
Are you picking on my Grumman AA5A?
I guess I deserve it after the Ranger thing.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
|
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ideas, And the plane crash. [message #222611 is a reply to message #222563] |
Sun, 15 September 2013 22:33 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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I have owned an AA-1 and an AA5A. I had a doctor friend that owned an AA5B and seldom flew it. So I flew it a lot also. There is not much difference between them except rate of climb and top speed.
Oh yes, the AA1 has the fuel tank in the center of the tubular spar. When you spin them the fuel all goes to the outside of the wings while the pickup is in the center thus starving the engine for gas. That is why the AD to placard them for "Intentional Spins Prohibited".
| Johnny Bridges wrote on Sun, 15 September 2013 18:13 |
Never drove a 5, have some time in a 4. The bigger engine oughta be nice, and the 4 was a reasonably fogiving airplane. If you want a true E-ticket ride, take an AA1A or B >way< up in the air, blush when you cover the "intentional" placard and spin it. Pilot input is required. And I wouldn't do that in the original aa-1 for love nor money. The cuff made a much nicer airplane at the cost of maybe 2 - 3 knots at cruise. It's like running the GMC down the Tail O The Dragon here. You can do it, but it ain't an indicated activity.
If memory serves, you can spin the 182 in Utility, but not Normal (Or is it Standard? Been a while). How about the AA-5A?
--johnny
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 9/15/13, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Ideas, And the plane crash.
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Sunday, September 15, 2013, 5:12 AM
Johnny Bridges wrote on Sat, 14 September 2013 19:40
> Geez... the 182 is a very forgiving airplane. And, it
>will< take care of you if you stick it in the trees,
at the expense of taking the wings
off. Please to keep your friend out of
Grumman/Americans and/or Mooneys.. they aren't nearly as
forgiving. When I shot rivets for Elro, we always kept
a 182 with a ruffled firewall in the shop to work on when
things got slow. Common happening with them.
>
> --johnny
Are you picking on my Grumman AA5A?
I guess I deserve it after the Ranger thing.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
[Updated on: Sun, 15 September 2013 22:41] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ideas, And the plane crash. [message #222614 is a reply to message #222611] |
Sun, 15 September 2013 22:41 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Oh yes, the AA1 has the fuel tank in the center of the tubular spar. When you spin them the fuel all goes to the outside of the wings while the pickup is in the center thus starving the engine for gas. That is why the AD to placard them for "Intentional Spins Prohibited".
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ideas, And the plane crash. [message #222632 is a reply to message #222611] |
Mon, 16 September 2013 07:11 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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I liked the AA-1A, 'fighter in a paper sack' as someone said. I was stationed at KAFB and working at the Ocean Springs airport - employee rate was $10 and hour plus fuel. I flew my very preggers wife home to Elmore, Al one weekend and I think we landed three different places on the way so she could go pee.
--johnny
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 9/16/13, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Ideas, And the plane crash.
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Monday, September 16, 2013, 3:33 AM
I have owned an AA-1 and an AA5A. I had a doctor
friend that owned an AA5B and seldom flew it. So I
flew it a lot also. There is not much
difference between them except rate of climb and top
speed.
Johnny Bridges wrote on Sun, 15 September 2013 18:13
> Never drove a 5, have some time in a 4. The
bigger engine oughta be nice, and the 4 was a reasonably
fogiving airplane. If you want a true E-ticket ride,
take an AA1A or B >way< up in the air, blush when you
cover the "intentional" placard and spin it. Pilot
input is required. And I wouldn't do that in the
original aa-1 for love nor money. The cuff made a much
nicer airplane at the cost of maybe 2 - 3 knots at
cruise. It's like running the GMC down the Tail O The
Dragon here. You can do it, but it ain't an indicated
activity.
> If memory serves, you can spin the 182 in Utility, but
not Normal (Or is it Standard? Been a while). How
about the AA-5A?
>
> --johnny
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sun, 9/15/13, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net>
wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Ideas, And the plane
crash.
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Date: Sunday, September 15, 2013, 5:12 AM
>
>
>
> Johnny Bridges wrote on Sat, 14 September 2013
19:40
> > Geez... the 182 is a very forgiving
airplane. And, it
> >will< take care of you if you stick it in
the trees,
> at the expense of taking the wings
> off. Please to keep your friend out of
> Grumman/Americans and/or Mooneys.. they aren't
nearly as
> forgiving. When I shot rivets for Elro, we
always kept
> a 182 with a ruffled firewall in the shop to work
on when
> things got slow. Common happening with them.
> >
> > --johnny
>
> Are you picking on my Grumman AA5A?
>
> I guess I deserve it after the Ranger thing.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
|
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|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Ideas, And the plane crash. [message #222633 is a reply to message #222614] |
Mon, 16 September 2013 07:15 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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If I remember the FARs - and it's been decades - a light single engine airplane has to be recoverable from a spin to be certificated . If it will recover within three turns withoout pilot input other than releasing the controls, no placard is necessary. If it requires pilot input (usually rudder against the spin and forward stick/column to break the stall) then it must be placarded. And the AA1 dam' sure needed pilot input!
--johnny
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 9/16/13, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Ideas, And the plane crash.
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Monday, September 16, 2013, 3:41 AM
Oh yes, the AA1 has the fuel tank in the center of the
tubular spar. When you spin them the fuel all goes to
the outside of the wings while the pickup is in the center
thus starving the engine for gas. That is why the AD
to placard them for "Intentional Spins Prohibited".
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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