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| [GMCnet] A tale of two coaches [message #221634] |
Sun, 08 September 2013 12:19  |
glwgmc
Messages: 1014
Registered: June 2004
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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With the new engine in our Royale performing well so far we have had a chance to directly compare two very different GMCs back to back. They tell an interesting tale of two coaches.
We are just back from a 1300 mile swing in the Clasco up to Coos Bay to finalize the last minute details on what is shaping up to be a great three club rally the first week in October. From there we went on up to Portland for a funeral and then to Bellingham, WA, to see our oldest son and family. We are just putting the break-in miles on the Royale following installation of a new S & J engine which is giving us the opportunity to drive both in close proximity to one another.
The Royale has most things one can do to modernize a GMC - newly remanufactured S & J 455 engine with cam timing advanced 4 degrees, Manny trans with 3:50 power chain, auto brake vac booster pump, 4 6vdc "golf cart batteries, combiner, three stage converter/charger, inverter, all LED lighting, aluminum radiator, external fan assisted trans. oil cooler replacing the in-radiator cooler where a fitting broke internally, Regussa trans pan, 3:21 final drive (resulting in 3.67 overall gearing), one ton front end, reaction arm disk brakes, Alcoa wheels with 225-75-16 BFG tires and wireless air controller with stock air bags and air bag extenders so the bags run at a lower air pressure.
The Clasco is mostly bone stock except for Manny trans with 3:50 power chain, Regussa trans pan, AGM start and AGM 4D house battery, combiner, three stage converter/charger, some LED lighting but lots of incandescent rope lighting which draws a lot of 12vdc power, external fan assisted engine oil cooler, passive external transmission cooler (both running through the stock radiator coolers), Weld wheels with the same 225-75-16 BFG tires, Caspro dual rear sway bars and steering damper, and the stock air bags and 1977 air control system.
The two coaches drive very well, but are quite different. The Royale feels noticeably heavier and feels like it floats more even though the ride is very well controlled. The Clasco feels lighter (I have yet to weight both but will today), seems more stable on the road, but does not feel as lively or as powerful. They both stop well and I cannot say one brake system is better or worse than the other, and that is a surprise to me. The Clasco has a higher, harder peddle. The Royale has more peddle travel before engagement and never feels quite as firm. The Royale stock brakes were barely acceptable while the Clasco stock brakes are great. Go figure. The Royale brakes now are far better than they were stock but still not noticeably better than the stock Clasco brakes.
The Royale climbs hills with noticeably less effort and higher vacuum doing so. It does have a bit more gearing and is a new engine while the Clasco has around 65K, but I think the 4 degree advanced cam timing on the Royale is mostly responsible.
The Clasco has the standard GMC interior layout but upgraded to the better Clasco cabinets and is done in a beautiful light gray 90s version of pleather (vinyl that looks like leather), an upgraded wet bath and aluminum slat blinds with twinkly lights all over the place. It has the climb-over permanent bed in back. The Royale has the large rear U lounge that makes into a larger than king size bed, a side dry bath, walnut cabinets and all natural leather interior (head liner, wall panels, roman shades over the windows and all the seating). We surprisingly find we (at least I) like the wet bath better than the dry bath. We greatly prefer the bed in the Royale to the one in the Clasco. And, we like the social/seating in the front of the Clasco far better than the kitchen & dinette that is in the front of the Royale.
All in all, an interesting contrast in two very different GMC coaches! Both will be on display at the Coos Bay rally. The Royale will be up on stands with the wheels off on one side so the attendees and vendors can see and discuss each of the mods first hand. The Clasco will be open for tours throughout the rally. Thanks to the Mill Casino, Hotel and RV staff being willing to work with us to allow two GMCs back to back on the 60 plus foot pull through sites, we now can offer full hookups to most everyone who whats them even though we sold out the park some time back. Come join us!
Jerry
Jerry and Sharon Work
78 Royale rear lounge
77 Clasco
Kerby, OR
glwork@mac.com
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Jerry & Sharon Work
78 Royale
Kerby, OR
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| Re: [GMCnet] A tale of two coaches [message #221721 is a reply to message #221634] |
Sun, 08 September 2013 22:02  |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Jerry,
Thank you for the summary.
I will be most curious to hear the results of the weigh-in -- as well as your thoughts as you continue to use both coaches.
Dennis
| glwgmc wrote on Sun, 08 September 2013 12:19 |
With the new engine in our Royale performing well so far we have had a chance to directly compare two very different GMCs back to back. They tell an interesting tale of two coaches.
We are just back from a 1300 mile swing in the Clasco up to Coos Bay to finalize the last minute details on what is shaping up to be a great three club rally the first week in October. From there we went on up to Portland for a funeral and then to Bellingham, WA, to see our oldest son and family. We are just putting the break-in miles on the Royale following installation of a new S & J engine which is giving us the opportunity to drive both in close proximity to one another.
The Royale has most things one can do to modernize a GMC - newly remanufactured S & J 455 engine with cam timing advanced 4 degrees, Manny trans with 3:50 power chain, auto brake vac booster pump, 4 6vdc "golf cart batteries, combiner, three stage converter/charger, inverter, all LED lighting, aluminum radiator, external fan assisted trans. oil cooler replacing the in-radiator cooler where a fitting broke internally, Regussa trans pan, 3:21 final drive (resulting in 3.67 overall gearing), one ton front end, reaction arm disk brakes, Alcoa wheels with 225-75-16 BFG tires and wireless air controller with stock air bags and air bag extenders so the bags run at a lower air pressure.
The Clasco is mostly bone stock except for Manny trans with 3:50 power chain, Regussa trans pan, AGM start and AGM 4D house battery, combiner, three stage converter/charger, some LED lighting but lots of incandescent rope lighting which draws a lot of 12vdc power, external fan assisted engine oil cooler, passive external transmission cooler (both running through the stock radiator coolers), Weld wheels with the same 225-75-16 BFG tires, Caspro dual rear sway bars and steering damper, and the stock air bags and 1977 air control system.
The two coaches drive very well, but are quite different. The Royale feels noticeably heavier and feels like it floats more even though the ride is very well controlled. The Clasco feels lighter (I have yet to weight both but will today), seems more stable on the road, but does not feel as lively or as powerful. They both stop well and I cannot say one brake system is better or worse than the other, and that is a surprise to me. The Clasco has a higher, harder peddle. The Royale has more peddle travel before engagement and never feels quite as firm. The Royale stock brakes were barely acceptable while the Clasco stock brakes are great. Go figure. The Royale brakes now are far better than they were stock but still not noticeably better than the stock Clasco brakes.
The Royale climbs hills with noticeably less effort and higher vacuum doing so. It does have a bit more gearing and is a new engine while the Clasco has around 65K, but I think the 4 degree advanced cam timing on the Royale is mostly responsible.
The Clasco has the standard GMC interior layout but upgraded to the better Clasco cabinets and is done in a beautiful light gray 90s version of pleather (vinyl that looks like leather), an upgraded wet bath and aluminum slat blinds with twinkly lights all over the place. It has the climb-over permanent bed in back. The Royale has the large rear U lounge that makes into a larger than king size bed, a side dry bath, walnut cabinets and all natural leather interior (head liner, wall panels, roman shades over the windows and all the seating). We surprisingly find we (at least I) like the wet bath better than the dry bath. We greatly prefer the bed in the Royale to the one in the Clasco. And, we like the social/seating in the front of the Clasco far better than the kitchen & dinette that is in the front of the Royale.
All in all, an interesting contrast in two very different GMC coaches! Both will be on display at the Coos Bay rally. The Royale will be up on stands with the wheels off on one side so the attendees and vendors can see and discuss each of the mods first hand. The Clasco will be open for tours throughout the rally. Thanks to the Mill Casino, Hotel and RV staff being willing to work with us to allow two GMCs back to back on the 60 plus foot pull through sites, we now can offer full hookups to most everyone who whats them even though we sold out the park some time back. Come join us!
Jerry
Jerry and Sharon Work
78 Royale rear lounge
77 Clasco
Kerby, OR
glwork@mac.com
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] A tale of two coaches [message #221763 is a reply to message #221634] |
Mon, 09 September 2013 11:34 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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Jerry, you said your new J&S engine has 4 degrees advance. Do you mean 4 MORE degrees, ie 16 BTDC? I assume you are running a carb. What are the specifics of your configuration in carb and distributor?
I recently went to a Paterson Distributor and Carb and am still tuning them in a bit. Have a very slight bog when I put my foot in it. Moved the timing to 14 and it's improved but still a bit of a hesitation.
Also a new rebuild with rings still seating. (403, Manny Tranny, Power Drive and 3.21)
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: [GMCnet] A tale of two coaches [message #221775 is a reply to message #221763] |
Mon, 09 September 2013 13:14 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Kerry, perhaps I can clear up the confusion about camshaft timing. I
recommended to Jerry Work to advance his camshaft 4 degrees via a
crankshaft sprocket that has the keyway cut in an advanced position
relative to the stock keyway position. This has the effect (depending upon
which camshaft was used, in this case a RV type cam was selected) of moving
the torque curve of the engine towards the lower end of the RPM range. More
usable torque at a lower RPM. This change does not change the initial
IGNITION TIMING POINT. That should still be AROUND 8 degrees BTDC on a carb
equipped or throttle body equipped engine that does not have EBL or
electronic spark control (computer managed spark timing). Ignition timing
controls when the spark plugs fire, and valve timing controls when the
valves open and close. Hope this clarifies, rather than confuses the issue.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 Gmc Royale 403
On Sep 9, 2013 9:34 AM, "Kerry Pinkerton" <Pinkertonk@mchsi.com> wrote:
>
>
> Jerry, you said your new J&S engine has 4 degrees advance. Do you mean 4
> MORE degrees, ie 16 BTDC? I assume you are running a carb. What are the
> specifics of your configuration in carb and distributor?
>
> I recently went to a Paterson Distributor and Carb and am still tuning
> them in a bit. Have a very slight bog when I put my foot in it. Moved the
> timing to 14 and it's improved but still a bit of a hesitation.
>
> Also a new rebuild with rings still seating. (403, Manny Tranny, Power
> Drive and 3.21)
> --
> Kerry Pinkerton
>
> North Alabama, near Huntsville,
>
> 77 Eleganza II, "The Lady", 403CI, also a 76 Eleganza being re-bodied as
> an Art Deco car hauler
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] A tale of two coaches [message #221797 is a reply to message #221775] |
Mon, 09 September 2013 16:17 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
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Senior Member |
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| James Hupy wrote on Mon, 09 September 2013 13:14 |
...I recommended to Jerry Work to advance his camshaft 4 degrees via a crankshaft sprocket that has the keyway cut in an advanced position relative to the stock keyway position. This has the effect (depending upon which camshaft was used, in this case a RV type cam was selected) of moving the torque curve of the engine towards the lower end of the RPM range. More usable torque at a lower RPM. ...
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Doesn't everyone running a stock final drive need that?
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