Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Head gasket or intake gasket???? Help in Houston.
| Head gasket or intake gasket???? Help in Houston. [message #220905] |
Mon, 02 September 2013 16:46  |
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Broham
Messages: 204
Registered: March 2013
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Hello all!
Near the end of my 1500 mile trip I started having problems. The engine started to knock so I eased off the power, it stopped knocking and it seamed fine. I drove another 15 miles into Houston and when I got off the freeway it over heated. I did an inspection and this is what I found:
Almost no coolant in the radiator
Wet exhaust
Very hard to start
The block was wet above the right rear exhaust port
The right inner tire was wet with coolant
When allowed to cool, the engine was hard to start but seamed to run fine I didn't let it run long enough to overheat because no coolant.
A little back story about the engine:
I found paper work showing it was replace 15k miles ago by a dealer at 70+k miles in 1993
Engine burns 1 quart every 250-300 miles
Engine runs ruff with miss for for 60 seconds then smooths out
I am very handy but don't have all my tools with me so my question is, how can I tell if it is a head gasket or an intake gasket? Would a compression tester tell the difference?
Second question is if it is a head gasket, who should I take it to in Houston?
Thank you everyone!
Todd
Todd
Owner of a 1976 Eleganza II 26’
other toys:
93 Vette
84 Goldwing
and gone but not forgotten
72 CB750 Chopper
96 Caprice Classic
34 Ford roadster
94 Fleetwood
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| Re: Head gasket or intake gasket???? Help in Houston. [message #220906 is a reply to message #220905] |
Mon, 02 September 2013 16:58  |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Todd
Examine the heater hose that runs to the right rear corner of the manifold -- it's possible it failed.
Dennis
| Broham wrote on Mon, 02 September 2013 16:46 |
Hello all!
Near the end of my 1500 mile trip I started having problems. The engine started to knock so I eased off the power, it stopped knocking and it seamed fine. I drove another 15 miles into Houston and when I got off the freeway it over heated. I did an inspection and this is what I found:
Almost no coolant in the radiator
Wet exhaust
Very hard to start
The block was wet above the right rear exhaust port
The right inner tire was wet with coolant
When allowed to cool, the engine was hard to start but seamed to run fine I didn't let it run long enough to overheat because no coolant.
A little back story about the engine:
I found paper work showing it was replace 15k miles ago by a dealer at 70+k miles in 1993
Engine burns 1 quart every 250-300 miles
Engine runs ruff with miss for for 60 seconds then smooths out
I am very handy but don't have all my tools with me so my question is, how can I tell if it is a head gasket or an intake gasket? Would a compression tester tell the difference?
Second question is if it is a head gasket, who should I take it to in Houston?
Thank you everyone!
Todd
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: Head gasket or intake gasket???? Help in Houston. [message #220907 is a reply to message #220905] |
Mon, 02 September 2013 17:18 |
Otterwan
Messages: 946
Registered: July 2013
Location: Lynnwood (north of Seattl...
Karma: 0
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| Broham wrote on Mon, 02 September 2013 14:46 |
Engine burns 1 quart every 250-300 miles
Engine runs ruff with miss for for 60 seconds then smooths out
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With miss and the oil burning I would say the coolant could be an unrelated issue. Coolant in the exhaust makes white smoke that dissipates quickly, and may or may not smell depending on what antifreeze you use. Oil smoke is blueish to black, doesn't dissipate, and smells like, well, burnt oil. Also my experience is that missing due to coolant in a cylinder doesn't go away when engine warms up.
I would agree, check the hoses thoroughly before tearing into the engine. With any luck you can find the leak and address the oil issue when you are home.
1977 Birchaven, Lynnwood WA - "We may not be able to stop all evil in the world, but I know that how we treat one another is entirely up to us."
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| Re: [GMCnet] Head gasket or intake gasket???? Help in Houston. [message #220908 is a reply to message #220906] |
Mon, 02 September 2013 17:20 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Todd, sounds like severe overheating. Inspect the heater hoses on the
passenger side of the intake manifold. You may have burst one or the clamps
came loose. In this situation, a compression cylinder balance test is
called for. You could have a blown head gasket on the passenger side, but
check all cylinders. Maybe you dodged a bullet here. (but Murphy rides with
us always)
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 Gmc Royale 403
On Sep 2, 2013 2:59 PM, "Dennis Sexton" <dennisfsexton@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> Todd
>
> Examine the heater hose that runs to the right rear corner of the manifold
> -- it's possible it failed.
>
> Dennis
>
>
> Broham wrote on Mon, 02 September 2013 16:46
> > Hello all!
> >
> > Near the end of my 1500 mile trip I started having problems. The engine
> started to knock so I eased off the power, it stopped knocking and it
> seamed fine. I drove another 15 miles into Houston and when I got off the
> freeway it over heated. I did an inspection and this is what I found:
> >
> > Almost no coolant in the radiator
> > Wet exhaust
> > Very hard to start
> > The block was wet above the right rear exhaust port
> > The right inner tire was wet with coolant
> > When allowed to cool, the engine was hard to start but seamed to run
> fine I didn't let it run long enough to overheat because no coolant.
> >
> >
> > A little back story about the engine:
> > I found paper work showing it was replace 15k miles ago by a dealer at
> 70+k miles in 1993
> > Engine burns 1 quart every 250-300 miles
> > Engine runs ruff with miss for for 60 seconds then smooths out
> >
> > I am very handy but don't have all my tools with me so my question is,
> how can I tell if it is a head gasket or an intake gasket? Would a
> compression tester tell the difference?
> >
> > Second question is if it is a head gasket, who should I take it to in
> Houston?
> >
> > Thank you everyone!
> >
> >
> > Todd
>
>
> --
> Dennis S
> 73 Painted Desert 230
> Germantown, TN
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: Head gasket or intake gasket???? Help in Houston. [message #220918 is a reply to message #220907] |
Mon, 02 September 2013 18:18 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Fill the radiator full of water and start looking for the leak. There is no need to waste additional coolant at this point. If you do not see the leak, start the engine and top off the radiator. Replace the cap and look for the leak again with the engine running and warming up. If after it warms up (about 5 minutes) there is no leak visible, shut off the engine and top off the radiator again. Be careful as the radiator cap is under pressure when the engine is warm. Cover the cap with a substantial rag before you loosen it.
I think you will find it by this point. If not then get a radiator pressure tester and pressure test the system after the engine has cooled off.
There is a very good chance that this is a leaking heater hose.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Head gasket or intake gasket???? Help in Houston. [message #220924 is a reply to message #220905] |
Mon, 02 September 2013 18:45 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Todd,
We have to go into this a little more specifically to get you better answers.
=> Here are my questions and statements.
Broham wrote on Mon, 02 September 2013
Hello all!
Near the end of my 1500 mile trip I started having problems. The engine started to knock so I eased off the power, it stopped knocking and it seamed fine. I drove another 15 miles into Houston and when I got off the freeway it over heated. I did an inspection and this is what I found:
Almost no coolant in the radiator
=> It may well have been knocking because it was hot.
=> Didn't temperature gauge indicate that things were hot?
Wet exhaust
=> Wet How? Coolant running out the tailpipe wet?
Very hard to start
The block was wet above the right rear exhaust port
=> There is no block above the exhaust.. Do you mean the head?
=> What about below the exhaust manifold?
The right inner tire was wet with coolant
=> That only indicates that at least part of the leakage is to external. That may be good. (I kind of like the bad heater hose answer.)
When allowed to cool, the engine was hard to start but seamed to run fine I didn't let it run long enough to overheat because no coolant.
=> You should not have started it with the coolant that low.
You are in Texas (not Michigan) use tap water for now.
A little back story about the engine:
I found paper work showing it was replace 15k miles ago by a dealer at 70+k miles in 1993
Engine burns 1 quart every 250-300 miles
Engine runs ruff with miss for for 60 seconds then smooths out
=> My impressions:
A quart in 300 is a lot. The usually acceptable high end is about 1000 miles. I don't know who worked on that engine or how it was stored, but something is probably wrong.
The roughness and hard starting could easily be oil fouling on the spark plugs.
I am very handy but don't have all my tools with me so my question is, how can I tell if it is a head gasket or an intake gasket?
=> An intake gasket leak will only be to crankcase or the valley, it doesn't fit what you have said so far.
Have you looked at the dipstick?
Does the lube oil look like lube oil or brown mud? <- this is bad
Would a compression tester tell the difference?
=> Not likely. But, if you fill the cooling system and run the engine at idle and the coolant doesn't bubble up and overflow, then there is a decent chance that the combustion seal portion of the head gasket is still in place.
=> Have you removed and inspected the spark plugs?
If you have failed a combustion seal, it will often show up there.
=> Another cheap but good test..
Refill the cooling system as best you can, with the sparkplugs out, spin the engine with the starter.
-ANY FOG Blow Out?
-If yes, get a squirt can and oil that bore NOW. You do need at least a head gasket, maybe a new cylinder head.
-If no, there can still be issues that just are not as severe.
Second question is if it is a head gasket, who should I take it to in Houston?
=> Get out your Black (aka GMC Assist) List
Thank you everyone!
Todd
Good Luck Todd
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Head gasket or intake gasket???? Help in Houston. [message #220936 is a reply to message #220924] |
Mon, 02 September 2013 20:11 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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Sir: it possibly could be a bad freeze plug behind the exhaust manifold.
| Matt Colie wrote on Mon, 02 September 2013 19:45 |
Todd,
We have to go into this a little more specifically to get you better answers.
=> Here are my questions and statements.
Broham wrote on Mon, 02 September 2013
Hello all!
Near the end of my 1500 mile trip I started having problems. The engine started to knock so I eased off the power, it stopped knocking and it seamed fine. I drove another 15 miles into Houston and when I got off the freeway it over heated. I did an inspection and this is what I found:
Almost no coolant in the radiator
=> It may well have been knocking because it was hot.
=> Didn't temperature gauge indicate that things were hot?
Wet exhaust
=> Wet How? Coolant running out the tailpipe wet?
Very hard to start
The block was wet above the right rear exhaust port
=> There is no block above the exhaust.. Do you mean the head?
=> What about below the exhaust manifold?
The right inner tire was wet with coolant
=> That only indicates that at least part of the leakage is to external. That may be good. (I kind of like the bad heater hose answer.)
When allowed to cool, the engine was hard to start but seamed to run fine I didn't let it run long enough to overheat because no coolant.
=> You should not have started it with the coolant that low.
You are in Texas (not Michigan) use tap water for now.
A little back story about the engine:
I found paper work showing it was replace 15k miles ago by a dealer at 70+k miles in 1993
Engine burns 1 quart every 250-300 miles
Engine runs ruff with miss for for 60 seconds then smooths out
=> My impressions:
A quart in 300 is a lot. The usually acceptable high end is about 1000 miles. I don't know who worked on that engine or how it was stored, but something is probably wrong.
The roughness and hard starting could easily be oil fouling on the spark plugs.
I am very handy but don't have all my tools with me so my question is, how can I tell if it is a head gasket or an intake gasket?
=> An intake gasket leak will only be to crankcase or the valley, it doesn't fit what you have said so far.
Have you looked at the dipstick?
Does the lube oil look like lube oil or brown mud? <- this is bad
Would a compression tester tell the difference?
=> Not likely. But, if you fill the cooling system and run the engine at idle and the coolant doesn't bubble up and overflow, then there is a decent chance that the combustion seal portion of the head gasket is still in place.
=> Have you removed and inspected the spark plugs?
If you have failed a combustion seal, it will often show up there.
=> Another cheap but good test..
Refill the cooling system as best you can, with the sparkplugs out, spin the engine with the starter.
-ANY FOG Blow Out?
-If yes, get a squirt can and oil that bore NOW. You do need at least a head gasket, maybe a new cylinder head.
-If no, there can still be issues that just are not as severe.
Second question is if it is a head gasket, who should I take it to in Houston?
=> Get out your Black (aka GMC Assist) List
Thank you everyone!
Todd
Good Luck Todd
Matt
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C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: Head gasket or intake gasket???? Help in Houston. [message #220938 is a reply to message #220905] |
Mon, 02 September 2013 20:22 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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I'm with most others that there is probably an external coolant leak. Hoses, freeze plug, etc. A leak that is bad enough to get the tire wet should not be hard to find. I can't imagine an intake manifold leak that would spray water to the tire without soaking the entire engine compartment.
Regarding your long term problem. A compression test would tell you a lot about the condition of the engine. There is bound to be at least one Harbor Freight stores in Houston.
I'd check the Black List for folks in Houston and contact someone there. They will know the local repair shops and perhaps have tools and space for you to work so you can get back on the road.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: Head gasket or intake gasket???? Help in Houston. [message #220956 is a reply to message #220905] |
Mon, 02 September 2013 21:16 |
Charley
Messages: 116
Registered: September 2010
Location: Magnolia Texas
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I am in Magnolia just North of Houston. I will be in Houston tomorrow down at exit 62 (Rankin Road) at work but just let me know. I am by no means an expert but will help where I can.
Charley Harris
Magnolia Texas
1976 Edgemont
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| Re: [GMCnet] Head gasket or intake gasket???? Help in Houston. [message #221005 is a reply to message #221004] |
Tue, 03 September 2013 10:02 |
Jeff Marten
Messages: 199
Registered: August 2013
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Have you tried a block tester to verify any exhaust gases getting into the cooling system?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHp5E7XnbXo
They rent/loan the tool at some parts chains, you just have to buy the $8 solution.
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: matt7323tze@gmail.com
> Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 09:37:02 -0500
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Head gasket or intake gasket???? Help in Houston.
>
>
>
> Broham wrote on Tue, 03 September 2013 00:18
> > tomorrow I'll do a compression test, fill the coolant system & check really closely for leaks and answer (best I can)all the questions.
> >
> > the ones i know right now are:
> > the coach sat for many years in the late 90's and early 2000s without service/maintenance.
> >
> > the head was damp above the header pipe but dry bellow the headers
> >
> > the oil cool dark but like oil
> >
> > the hard starting just happened after the over heating
> >
> > the heater hoses are new this summer
> >
> > the spark plugs are new for this trip
> >
> > when started after it overheated white smoke came out the tail pipe but quickly dissipated. I'm pretty sure it was water not oil.
> >
> > when I started it after it cooled down my finger was wet from the tail pipe but water was not flowing out of the pipe
> >
> > the only antifreeze on the ground was a spot about 4"x4" that rolled off the tire
>
> Todd,
>
> For there to be coolant on the right front tire, it pretty much had to be from one of three places.
> 1 - The coolant hoses to the water heater
> 2 - The water pump gasket
> 3 - The block seal portion of the right head gasket
> (This would require very good aim on the part of the leak.)
>
> Borrow the cooling system pressure tester and find the leak before you get too carried away. Only on of these is actually major work, but the over heat may have hurt the cylinder head gaskets. If you have the time and patience, doing a check torque on the head bolts would not be stupid.
>
> Matt - Gasket Guy
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie
> '73 Glacier 23 Chaumière (say show-me-air)
> Now with 4 working Rear Brakes
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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1985 Gulf Stream 34' Sun Stream
1964 Falcon 'Vert
1980 Bradley GTE
1999 Chevy Tahoe
2005 Saab 93 Aero
1987 Suzuki Intruder 1400
1978 Glastron/Carlson CV23
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| Re: [GMCnet] Head gasket or intake gasket???? Help in Houston. [message #221038 is a reply to message #221035] |
Tue, 03 September 2013 14:46 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Todd, when you get the head off, be sure to check the surface for flatness.
Also check for cracks in the area of the valve seats. If you were burning
as much oil as you say, also check valve to valve guide clearance and valve
seals. If you find anything wrong here, pull the other head and fix it now.
Jwiwd.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 Gmc Royale 403
On Sep 3, 2013 12:25 PM, "Todd Perkins" <taperk@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> ok, time for the bad news. I checked the compression and found cylinders
> 3 and 5 are less than 50 (dry and wet). The other 6 are between 120-140ish
> dry. I filled the radiator put some pressure on it and water came out
> spark plug 5. :cry:
>
> I guess it is a head gasket or a total rebuild at this point. not the way
> i wanted to spend the end of my trip.
>
> FYI All the hoses are new this summer, the oil and water stayed at there
> normal positions until the end. I ran it for maybe 5 minutes at 1/2-3/4
> temp (on the gauge) and less than a minute at full temp.
>
> My guess on what happened is the stress of the heat finished off the head
> gasket, the coolant git burned up until there wasn't enough to cool the
> engine, it over heated and here it is.
> --
> Todd
>
> New owner of a 1976 Eleganza II 26’
> other toys:
> 94 Vette
> 84 Goldwing
> 72 CB750 Chopper
> 96 Caprice Classic
> and gone but not forgotten 34 Ford roadster
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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