| Upper control arm cams [message #220803] |
Sun, 01 September 2013 19:58  |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Working on alignment and my cams were all centered (large lobes at 12 o'clock) I started by putting rears so arms are full inboard to get positive caster and then figured I would use the fronts to try to keep zero camber. Using a closed end 3/4 as shock mount interferes with a socket. I did lube well in advance and things look clean. I want to move fronts outboard to get a degree more of camber while adding more caster. Seems like there is force on the arm pushing inboard keeping me from rotating. Should I be relieving this somehow to allow the front cams to rotate. Right now about 4 deg on the pass side and 3.2 on drivers so I want to even out before resetting toe and test driving. Will I damage the cams by trying to turn with force?
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Upper control arm cams [message #220812 is a reply to message #220803] |
Sun, 01 September 2013 20:42  |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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They can be damaged ( I know) that is why I cautioned to not damage the original ones. If you are using a combination wrench, box on one end and open on the other end you can use another box end wrench to hook on the open end of the 3/4 to use for leverage. I would not use a hammer on the wrench.
| JohnL455 wrote on Sun, 01 September 2013 20:58 |
Working on alignment and my cams were all centered (large lobes at 12 o'clock) I started by putting rears so arms are full inboard to get positive caster and then figured I would use the fronts to try to keep zero camber. Using a closed end 3/4 as shock mount interferes with a socket. I did lube well in advance and things look clean. I want to move fronts outboard to get a degree more of camber while adding more caster. Seems like there is force on the arm pushing inboard keeping me from rotating. Should I be relieving this somehow to allow the front cams to rotate. Right now about 4 deg on the pass side and 3.2 on drivers so I want to even out before resetting toe and test driving. Will I damage the cams by trying to turn with force?
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C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: Upper control arm cams [message #220819 is a reply to message #220812] |
Mon, 02 September 2013 00:03 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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they sound rusty.
I would give em a few whacks with a hammer, brass preferred...
Hit the bolt.hit the washers
Pulling to hard my just bend something
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: Upper control arm cams [message #220878 is a reply to message #220803] |
Mon, 02 September 2013 11:04 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Not rusty as removed when bushings were done. I can see them turn a few degrees but seems like weight is pushing inboard on upper arms and can't overcome the force with the cam. Should I put a jack under the lower and remove the wheel to try to unload?
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Upper control arm cams [message #220879 is a reply to message #220878] |
Mon, 02 September 2013 11:25 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Sir: you might try using a folded plastic garbage bag with grease inside udder the wheels to allow for movement on the ground. Adjustments are suppose to be made on floating rotating plates. I have done it without them tho. I have run across cams that were tight in the slots and had to loosen them a lot to get to move. Maybe try to pry on the control arm as you turn the cam? Are the cams set with the holes at the bottom and the bolts from the outside - in??
| JohnL455 wrote on Mon, 02 September 2013 12:04 |
Not rusty as removed when bushings were done. I can see them turn a few degrees but seems like weight is pushing inboard on upper arms and can't overcome the force with the cam. Should I put a jack under the lower and remove the wheel to try to unload?
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C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: Upper control arm cams [message #220880 is a reply to message #220803] |
Mon, 02 September 2013 11:52 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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I'm on the Jerry Work turntables now but I like your idea for movement in all directions. Nuts are on the outsides(extreme front and rear) so bolts from inside. Is this wrong or does it matter?
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Upper control arm cams [message #220886 is a reply to message #220880] |
Mon, 02 September 2013 13:39 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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The parts book shows them from outside with nuts on inside, (SORRY). However the manual shows them from inside out, I have 2 coaches here and both are inside out. That would be bout the only way to get a torque wrench on the nuts.
| JohnL455 wrote on Mon, 02 September 2013 12:52 |
I'm on the Jerry Work turntables now but I like your idea for movement in all directions. Nuts are on the outsides(extreme front and rear) so bolts from inside. Is this wrong or does it matter?
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C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: Upper control arm cams [message #220894 is a reply to message #220803] |
Mon, 02 September 2013 14:25 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Nuts on outside easy to torque. Hard to adjust forward cam as shock mount is right there on bolt side. I plan to pull the wheel to see if that makes it easier.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Upper control arm cams [message #221118 is a reply to message #220803] |
Wed, 04 September 2013 09:36 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Removing the wheel unloads the forces on the cam and it turns as it should. Ended up about 4 deg caster both sides as limited by passenger side with rear cam fully inboard. Had to back down drivers side to match. Did some 2 lane quick testing and no pull so that's good. Feels better so far. Toe at zero. Camber towards neg side of zero (a few tenths neg).
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Upper control arm cams [message #221125 is a reply to message #221118] |
Wed, 04 September 2013 10:20 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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How did you get so much camber?
Do you have offset arms?
Best I could get was 1.5 degrees
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Upper control arm cams [message #221153 is a reply to message #221152] |
Wed, 04 September 2013 16:21 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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| larry.whisler wrote on Wed, 04 September 2013 16:10 |
I am assuming that the discussion was referring to caster and not camber.
If there was a change in the control arms, does anyone know when/what years/ serial number that the change took affect?
just curious
larry
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Dang yes, my fat fingers were told to type caster, but camber came out...
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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