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| [GMCnet] refrigerators [message #220026] |
Mon, 26 August 2013 18:17  |
mjbourgon
Messages: 259
Registered: May 2010
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Good afternoon all
Two of us here in El paso are replacing our refrigerators. We have
heard of many residential units being used instead of the Dometic or
Norcold units. Any ideas and or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Marcel in El Paso
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| Re: [GMCnet] refrigerators [message #220032 is a reply to message #220026] |
Mon, 26 August 2013 19:25  |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
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You save money up front, but will have to be plugged in to use the 'fridge (no dry camping for you!). Or, you'll have to run your generator a LOT, or have a sizable inverter and plenty of batteries. If you never, ever dry camp, AND you have an inverter big enough to run the 'fridge then it's probably not a horrible option. But I find that I use all three modes in my 3-way a lot, and wouldn't want to settle for a 'fridge that can't run on gas.
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: [GMCnet] refrigerators [message #220035 is a reply to message #220034] |
Mon, 26 August 2013 19:52 |
mjbourgon
Messages: 259
Registered: May 2010
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Thanks for your thoughts
Marcel
On 8/26/2013 18:45, John Wright wrote:
> Marcel,
> Before you make decision on which type you buy, ask yourself, "What type of camp do we do?" If you park you coach each night where you have AC power to hook up too, then a residential style refrigerator could be installed in place of your old unit. If you do a lot of dry camping then this is the style you do not want to install and you should a get a replacement RV refrigerator.
>
> To install a residential style refrigerator I can suggest several.
>
> < http://www.lowes.com/pd_326297-47224-LFPH31M6LM_0__?productId=3240526&Ntt=apartment+refrigerator&pl=1¤tURL=%3FNtt%3Dapartment%2Brefr igerator&facetInfo=>
> or
> http://goo.gl/DHRvnh
>
> or this one
>
> < http://www.lowes.com/pd_353427-2251-LFPH45F4LM_0__?productId=3389008&Ntt=apartment+refrigerator&pl=1¤tURL=%3FNtt%3Dapartment%2Brefri gerator&facetInfo=>
> or
> http://goo.gl/4LuFea
>
> I have bought one like the second one as it is very close to Dometic dimensions. I have a 1975 Avion model that I am restoring and this model will fit where the old single door Norcold was located.
>
> I will also be adding an inverter to provide power while moving down the road, but use in long term dry camping you cannot carry enough batteries.
>
> I think that I have given you enough info to digest and possibly pick a direction you what to go.
>
> There are reasonable RV refig available out there you just have to look. I have always preferred the Dometic's over a NOcold any day.
>
> JR Wright
> GMC Great Laker MHC
> GMC Eastern States
> GMCMHI
> TZE Zone Restorations
> 78 Buskirk 30' Stretch
> 1975 Avion (Under Reconstruction)
> Michigan
>
> On Aug 26, 2013, at 7:17 PM, Marcel Bourgon <mjbourgon@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Good afternoon all
>> Two of us here in El paso are replacing our refrigerators. We have
>> heard of many residential units being used instead of the Dometic or
>> Norcold units. Any ideas and or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>> Thanks
>> Marcel in El Paso
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: [GMCnet] refrigerators [message #220045 is a reply to message #220026] |
Mon, 26 August 2013 21:32 |
quadracerx1
Messages: 207
Registered: April 2013
Location: Puyallup, Washington
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For those who have used a "home style replacement" do you think you can run the generator for a couple hours then quit for a couple hours then use it again to keep it cold? Do you think you can leave it without power over night then restart the generator in the AM using the same method?
Thanks,
Steve
75 26' GMC Glenbrook
Puyallup, Washington
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| Re: [GMCnet] refrigerators [message #220057 is a reply to message #220026] |
Mon, 26 August 2013 22:26 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Marcel,
We REALLY like the Norcold 641-3 (three way) that I installed in the coach two years ago. I don't have nearly the experience that some of the guys here have had, so unlike John, I can't make a recommendation as to brand, based on experience with one or the other, but I have heard bad things about Dometic too. In fact, his was the first bad opinion I have heard concerning Norcold. Maybe it's just a personal preference like GM vs. Ford for instance.
In my opinion, an RV refrigerator is (obviously) the ideal type for an RV. It seems obvious that a residential fridge is not going to work as well unless you are always plugged in or running on an inverter, with your engine running, and your alternator supplying power. We dry camp on a regular basis and I wouldn't want to do that with an electric only fridge (again  ). I don't see a down side to an absorption type refrigerator other than price. A new all electric Norcold is even MORE expensive than a two or three way.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: [GMCnet] refrigerators [message #220060 is a reply to message #220035] |
Mon, 26 August 2013 22:44 |
Kosier
Messages: 834
Registered: February 2008
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-----Original Message-----
From: Marcel Bourgon
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 8:52 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] refrigerators
Thanks for your thoughts
Marcel
Marcel,
Let me give you my thoughts. First; I hate gas reefers. They require way
to much attention.
And they don't last a long time. Plus, now we find out they catch on fire.
So, when the power supply died on my electric Norcold, I purchased a 400w
pure sine wave
invertor, a 120 to 24 transformer, a DPDT switch and relay from Radio Shack.
I put it together, mostly using the original wiring to make it easy to trace
problems.
Hooked it up, plugged it in and everything worked as planned.
I couldn't believe that an electrically challenged pipefitter could put
something so simple
together and not have a problem. I showed my wiring diagram to Ken H. and
asked where
I might have gone wrong. He said if the relay doesn't chatter when it
changes current
supply, you're good to go. It's been running that way for a year, no
problems.
I ASSUME this is a more efficient set-up than the original, but I haven't
checked, as I
don't really care. I got a bellyfull of dry camping while working for Uncle
Sam. So, my
dry camping is limited to overnights while enroute to a campground. JWID
Gary Kosier
77 PB w500 Cad
Newark Ohio
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| Re: [GMCnet] refrigerators [message #220067 is a reply to message #220026] |
Tue, 27 August 2013 01:11 |
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hnielsen2
Messages: 1434
Registered: February 2004
Location: Alpine CA
Karma: 0
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Gary I think the same way as you.
Our stock Norcold had real bad rattle.
My first thought was oh no new refrigator.
Pulled out the Norcold and found the problem.
The old rubber mounts/pads had dried up.
Eazy fix cut new pads from some rubber sheathing I had.
Next is to upgrade the same as you.
Some where on the GMC you can find the how to using the same idea as yours with out the DPDT switch and relay.
No gas and no holes cut in to the side or top of your GMC
As for dry camping.
We bring our 2,000 Honda Generator
Howard
Alpine Ca
74 Canyon Lands
All is well with my Lord
Never Give Up
On Aug 26, 2013, at 20:44, "Kosier" <gkosier@roadrunner.com> wrote:
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marcel Bourgon
> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 8:52 PM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] refrigerators
>
> Thanks for your thoughts
> Marcel
>
> Marcel,
>
> Let me give you my thoughts. First; I hate gas reefers. They require way
> to much attention.
> And they don't last a long time. Plus, now we find out they catch on fire.
> So, when the power supply died on my electric Norcold, I purchased a 400w
> pure sine wave
> invertor, a 120 to 24 transformer, a DPDT switch and relay from Radio Shack.
> I put it together, mostly using the original wiring to make it easy to trace
> problems.
> Hooked it up, plugged it in and everything worked as planned.
> I couldn't believe that an electrically challenged pipefitter could put
> something so simple
> together and not have a problem. I showed my wiring diagram to Ken H. and
> asked where
> I might have gone wrong. He said if the relay doesn't chatter when it
> changes current
> supply, you're good to go. It's been running that way for a year, no
> problems.
> I ASSUME this is a more efficient set-up than the original, but I haven't
> checked, as I
> don't really care. I got a bellyfull of dry camping while working for Uncle
> Sam. So, my
> dry camping is limited to overnights while enroute to a campground. JWID
>
> Gary Kosier
> 77 PB w500 Cad
> Newark Ohio
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] refrigerators [message #220068 is a reply to message #220063] |
Tue, 27 August 2013 01:11 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Marcel,
Since you were kind enough to house our coach for so ling, should you
decide for Dometic or Norcold, I can quote you delivered price less tax.
Dometic as a 2 for one sale, and I can do the same.
Thank you for allowing us to leave our coach at your MAN CAVE.
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 9:15 PM, A. <markbb1@netzero.com> wrote:
>
>
> Kosier wrote on Mon, 26 August 2013 22:44
> > ...I purchased a 400w pure sine wave invertor, a 120 to 24 transformer,
> a DPDT switch and relay from Radio Shack. ...
> Do you have any part numbers and/or vendor info on that "120 to 24"
> transformer? Amperage ratings, etc.?
>
> --
> '73 23' Sequoia For Camping
> '73 23' CanyonLands For Sale
> UA (Upper Alabama)
> "Time is money. If you use YOUR time, you get to keep YOUR money."
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] refrigerators [message #220069 is a reply to message #220026] |
Tue, 27 August 2013 01:28 |
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hnielsen2
Messages: 1434
Registered: February 2004
Location: Alpine CA
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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We dry camped for one month in Yosemite
With our stock two way Norcold.
Using our Honda 2000 running for about two hours each day.
Our house batteries are two 12 volt sealed AGM Power Sonic.
Our drinks where kept in a ice chest.
We have dry camped for three to four day with out the Honda Generator.
Howard
Alpine Ca
74 Canyon Lands
All is well with my Lord
Never Give Up
On Aug 26, 2013, at 17:25, Mark <mark@habcycles.com> wrote:
>
>
> You save money up front, but will have to be plugged in to use the 'fridge (no dry camping for you!). Or, you'll have to run your generator a LOT, or have a sizable inverter and plenty of batteries. If you never, ever dry camp, AND you have an inverter big enough to run the 'fridge then it's probably not a horrible option. But I find that I use all three modes in my 3-way a lot, and wouldn't want to settle for a 'fridge that can't run on gas.
> --
> Mark Hickey
> Mesa, AZ
> 1978 Royale Center Kitchen
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] refrigerators [message #220090 is a reply to message #220026] |
Tue, 27 August 2013 09:57 |
 |
Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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I believe that I am better equipped to provide answers here than most are. I both built the set up and have the instrumentation at hand to certify its deficiencies.
We have a 23' that had the 3.5Cuft AC/DC Norcold. It was good for years. A fully charged house bank of GC2s would go about two days in 80°F (26°C)weather before the house bank started to get nervous. It stopped cooling.
To replace the above we got a 3.5Cuft Frigidaire made in China (<200$us) and a 750W mod wave2 inverter for about 40$us. It works, but the thing gives up altogether at about 85°F and runs continuously. The Chinese compressor has PF of 0.56, but I am not sure how much that matters in the long run.
What does matter is that the draws about 1.1 amp on line power and 1.22 amp on the inverter. This translates almost 10 amps (9.8)from the batteries. So, if OAT (even thought the entire cooling cycle is inside the coach) we can look at depleting the house bank to 50% in an overnight and killing it in less than a day. (This was all confirmed by this summer's experiences.)
I was considering try to correct the power factor, but as my neat little Kill-A-Watt tells me, the unit is wanting 90 watts on line power and 98 on the inverter. Even if I could cut that by 25% (possible but not likely) that would only get me another couple of hours on battery.
A pure sine inverter and a more efficient reefer may serve better, but our choices are between using the coach or buying parts for it. We are coming up on having to start buying tires.
So, for the short term, we are planning on 4hours of APU on a driving day and 6+ on a non-driving day.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] refrigerators [message #220092 is a reply to message #220090] |
Tue, 27 August 2013 10:24 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Matt, how come when you replaced the fridge originally you did not select one that runs on propane as well? Is that due to the size opening limitations of the fridge hole in a 23'?
Todd Sullivan
Sully
77 royale
Seattle
On Aug 27, 2013, at 7:57 AM, Matt Colie <matt7323tze@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I believe that I am better equipped to provide answers here than most are. I both built the set up and have the instrumentation at hand to certify its deficiencies.
>
> We have a 23' that had the 3.5Cuft AC/DC Norcold. It was good for years. A fully charged house bank of GC2s would go about two days in 80°F (26°C)weather before the house bank started to get nervous. It stopped cooling.
>
> To replace the above we got a 3.5Cuft Frigidaire made in China (<200$us) and a 750W mod wave2 inverter for about 40$us. It works, but the thing gives up altogether at about 85°F and runs continuously. The Chinese compressor has PF of 0.56, but I am not sure how much that matters in the long run.
>
> What does matter is that the draws about 1.1 amp on line power and 1.22 amp on the inverter. This translates almost 10 amps (9.8)from the batteries. So, if OAT (even thought the entire cooling cycle is inside the coach) we can look at depleting the house bank to 50% in an overnight and killing it in less than a day. (This was all confirmed by this summer's experiences.)
>
> I was considering try to correct the power factor, but as my neat little Kill-A-Watt tells me, the unit is wanting 90 watts on line power and 98 on the inverter. Even if I could cut that by 25% (possible but not likely) that would only get me another couple of hours on battery.
>
> A pure sine inverter and a more efficient reefer may serve better, but our choices are between using the coach or buying parts for it. We are coming up on having to start buying tires.
>
> So, for the short term, we are planning on 4hours of APU on a driving day and 6+ on a non-driving day.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie
> '73 Glacier 23 Chaumière (say show-me-air)
> Now with 4 working Rear Brakes
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] refrigerators [message #220093 is a reply to message #220026] |
Tue, 27 August 2013 10:29 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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the problem I have found, is I do not like to run the generator when I am not with the coach or nearby.
And when i am camping, during the day, I am not usually around my coach. so it is difficult for me to find more then an hour or two where i would want to run the generator.
I am worried about fire, CO2 levels. I run a co2 meter. and maybe i should get the automatic fire suppression. that does not stop a grass fire when I am running "off grid" I am normally parked in the grass.
it is tough to get by when one does not have a plug in near by.
I see Matt's point. either use the money to be out in the GMC, or buy parts. But I just see if you plan on spending more then 2 days not plugged in, a person really needs to think about that gas fridge. I know one is in my future, I have been fighting the electrical consumption on the electric fridge for 3 years now...
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: [GMCnet] refrigerators [message #220105 is a reply to message #220057] |
Tue, 27 August 2013 12:57 |
mickeysss
Messages: 1476
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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i suppose i am staying with the 3 way as well. but those really look good in bob's gmc. wine cooler, small freezer. i love the look
and do more with less likeness. I have the original in there now 3 way i may as well see if it works.
if it does work i will get the jimb fire deal or buy a new fridge 3 way - norcold 641-3.
If anyone thinks this is not as good an idea let me know. please. thank you best regards have a great day.
mickey anaheim ca. 77 palm beach.
On Aug 26, 2013, at 8:26 PM, Carl Stouffer wrote:
>
>
> Marcel,
>
> We REALLY like the Norcold 641-3 (three way) that I installed in the coach two years ago. I don't have nearly the experience that some of the guys here have had, so unlike John, I can't make a recommendation as to brand, based on experience with one or the other, but I have heard bad things about Dometic too. In fact, his was the first bad opinion I have heard concerning Norcold. Maybe it's just a personal preference like GM vs. Ford for instance.
>
> In my opinion, an RV refrigerator is (obviously) the ideal type for an RV. It seems obvious that a residential fridge is not going to work as well unless you are always plugged in or running on an inverter, with your engine running, and your alternator supplying power. We dry camp on a regular basis and I wouldn't want to do that with an electric only fridge (again :? ). I don't see a down side to an absorption type refrigerator other than price. A new all electric Norcold is even MORE expensive than a two or three way.
> --
> Carl S.
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] refrigerators [message #220117 is a reply to message #220063] |
Tue, 27 August 2013 14:32 |
Kosier
Messages: 834
Registered: February 2008
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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All right, here's the true story. Knowing nothing going in,I printed the
reefer manuals and copied the real
brainwork by, I believe, Rob Allen. I then probably wasted some money by
purchasing the first items that
looked like they would work. Here's the list.
First, a 600w pure sine wave inverter from E-Bay $115.00
Next, a 120/24v transformer,Jameco Electronics #221365 with shipping $38.02
Next stop, Radio Shack for a DPDT plug in relay #275-017 for $10.69
First relay I got was defective and when I went back, I got a plastic box to
put it in.
The wiring is so simple on this thing, I couldn't believe how well it works.
I do have a wiring diagram, but I will have to do a little begging to the
wife to
put it on the computer.
Gary Kosier
77 PB w/500 Cad
Newark, Oh
-----Original Message-----
From: A.
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 12:15 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] refrigerators
Kosier wrote on Mon, 26 August 2013 22:44
> ...I purchased a 400w pure sine wave invertor, a 120 to 24 transformer, a
> DPDT switch and relay from Radio Shack. ...
Do you have any part numbers and/or vendor info on that "120 to 24"
transformer? Amperage ratings, etc.?
--
'73 23' Sequoia For Camping
'73 23' CanyonLands For Sale
UA (Upper Alabama)
"Time is money. If you use YOUR time, you get to keep YOUR money."
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| Re: [GMCnet] refrigerators [message #220122 is a reply to message #220117] |
Tue, 27 August 2013 15:12 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
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Senior Member |
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| Kosier wrote on Tue, 27 August 2013 14:32 |
All right, here's the true story. Knowing nothing going in, I printed the reefer manuals and copied the real brainwork by, I believe, Rob Allen. I then probably wasted some money by purchasing the first items that looked like they would work. Here's the list.
First, a 600w pure sine wave inverter from E-Bay $115.00
Next, a 120/24v transformer,Jameco Electronics #221365 with shipping $38.02
Next stop, Radio Shack for a DPDT plug in relay #275-017 for $10.69
First relay I got was defective and when I went back, I got a plastic box to put it in.
The wiring is so simple on this thing, I couldn't believe how well it works.
I do have a wiring diagram, but I will have to do a little begging to the wife to put it on the computer.
Gary Kosier
77 PB w/500 Cad
Newark, Oh
|
Yep. We're on the same sheet of music. Rob Allen's write up here: http://www.bdub.net/Refrigeration_in_the_GMC.pdf
The way to get the most out of your house battery with the old dual voltage fridge is to remove the 12VDC stuff from it, replace the dual primary transformer with a more efficient single primary one, use a modern, efficient, full sine wave inverter, and cobble together an automated switch to go back and forth between the 12VDC inverter connection and 120VAC based on the presence of 120VAC power.
If your DPDT relay is the automated switch from DC to AC, then you already have done what I want to do, and I don't want to reinvent the wheel.
Looking forward to seeing the wiring diagram. Get begging.
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