Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Dreaming of overdrive
| Dreaming of overdrive [message #219149] |
Mon, 19 August 2013 19:11  |
Neil
Messages: 271
Registered: July 2007
Location: Los Angeles and Magalia, ...
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All this talk about alternative power plants makes me think of a possibility for a tramsmission improvement which I invite all to say is a bad idea. Cause it has been kicking around in my head for a while.
It there some way to do an over or under drive in the chain set-up from engine to trans?
Two chains, two gears an electric clutch?
Or replace the chain with all gears and a way to "shift"
If you needed more space, at worst the step would have to be extended.
Just a fun thought.
Neil
76 Eleganza now sold
Los Angeles
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dreaming of overdrive [message #219154 is a reply to message #219149] |
Mon, 19 August 2013 19:25  |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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replacing the chain with gears would allow for other transmissions, would it not?
==johnny
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 8/20/13, Neil Martin <nmartin@hfbllp.com> wrote:
Subject: [GMCnet] Dreaming of overdrive
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Tuesday, August 20, 2013, 12:11 AM
All this talk about alternative power plants makes me think
of a possibility for a tramsmission improvement which I
invite all to say is a bad idea. Cause it has been
kicking around in my head for a while.
It there some way to do an over or under drive in the chain
set-up from engine to trans?
Two chains, two gears an electric clutch?
Or replace the chain with all gears and a way to "shift"
If you needed more space, at worst the step would have to be
extended.
Just a fun thought.
--
Neil
76 Eleganza
Los Angeles
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dreaming of overdrive [message #219155 is a reply to message #219149] |
Mon, 19 August 2013 19:25 |
Ronald Pottol
Messages: 505
Registered: September 2012
Location: Redwood City, California
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Or make the torque converter lock.
On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Neil Martin <nmartin@hfbllp.com> wrote:
>
>
> All this talk about alternative power plants makes me think of a
> possibility for a tramsmission improvement which I invite all to say is a
> bad idea. Cause it has been kicking around in my head for a while.
>
> It there some way to do an over or under drive in the chain set-up from
> engine to trans?
>
> Two chains, two gears an electric clutch?
>
> Or replace the chain with all gears and a way to "shift"
>
> If you needed more space, at worst the step would have to be extended.
>
> Just a fun thought.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Neil
> 76 Eleganza
> Los Angeles
> _______________________________________________
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--
Plato seems wrong to me today.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dreaming of overdrive [message #219211 is a reply to message #219179] |
Tue, 20 August 2013 06:58 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
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Wasn't the 'twin turbine' Dynaflow fitted to our '59 Buick actually a beefed up PowerGlide out o a Chev?
--johnny
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 8/20/13, J A Holland <acts238bishop@yahoo.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Dreaming of overdrive
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Tuesday, August 20, 2013, 1:56 AM
~ Why Not Go Back To The
BUICK DYNAFLOW TRANNYS ~
~ Joe ~
--
/_]*[__][] *[__|] ~ * '73
TZE063V101887 ""
O----------OO--]* ~ '78
TZE168V100234 ""
" Joe & Lavelle " ""
'sweet home alebamy'
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Dreaming of overdrive [message #219216 is a reply to message #219149] |
Tue, 20 August 2013 08:05 |
 |
Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
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| Neil wrote on Mon, 19 August 2013 20:11 |
All this talk about alternative power plants makes me think of a possibility for a tramsmission improvement which I invite all to say is a bad idea. Cause it has been kicking around in my head for a while.
It there some way to do an over or under drive in the chain set-up from engine to trans?
Two chains, two gears an electric clutch?
Or replace the chain with all gears and a way to "shift"
If you needed more space, at worst the step would have to be extended.
Just a fun thought.
|
Neil,
If you are dreaming of over drive, just use a 3.07 and the standard chain. That is overdrive and it is one of the problems. It is exactly why a 3.55 or 3.70 work so well.
Overdrive is an old term left over from the original straight-through three speed transmission. Top gear was always a direct couple to the propeller (drive) shaft. This left the only reduction to the final drive or rear end.
As engines of the day soon became oversize and could provide road-load torque at well below the torque peak, many manufactures offered an "Overdrive Tailshaft" option. This allowed the engine to be run as if it had a lower numerical rear end. It was hoped that this would both improve fuel economy and reduce engine wear. (There was little basis for either other than hope.)
The part of the overdrive unit that actually did the most good for mileage was the overrunning clutch that was required to make the simple mechanism work as expected. This this was actually most like an overrunning fuel cutoff that out EFI users know so well. Carburetors just can't do that.
Now the joke is that no automatic transmission or transverse manual transmission actually has a 1:1 top gear, but that is really just an artifact of the manufacturing process.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dreaming of overdrive [message #219217 is a reply to message #219212] |
Tue, 20 August 2013 08:12 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Unlike the wikipedia reference below which gave "Dynaslush" as the pejorative term for that tranny, we called it "DynaFLUSH!"
Mac from OKC
Money Pit
76 ex P.B.
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 20, 2013, at 8:09, "Emery Stora" <emerystora@me.com> wrote:
> No. -- See this:
> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynaflow
>
> Emery Stora
>
> On Aug 20, 2013, at 5:58 AM, Johnny Bridges <jhbridges@ymail.com> wrote:
>
>> Wasn't the 'twin turbine' Dynaflow fitted to our '59 Buick actually a beefed up PowerGlide out o a Chev?
>>
>> --johnny
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>> On Tue, 8/20/13, J A Holland <acts238bishop@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Dreaming of overdrive
>> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
>> Date: Tuesday, August 20, 2013, 1:56 AM
>>
>>
>>
>> ~ Why Not Go Back To The
>> BUICK DYNAFLOW TRANNYS ~
>>
>> ~ Joe ~
>> --
>> /_]*[__][] *[__|] ~ * '73
>> TZE063V101887 ""
>> O----------OO--]* ~ '78
>> TZE168V100234 ""
>> " Joe & Lavelle " ""
>> 'sweet home alebamy'
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: Dreaming of overdrive [message #219243 is a reply to message #219149] |
Tue, 20 August 2013 11:16 |
amdgmcman
Messages: 76
Registered: April 2007
Location: Long Beach, CA
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Greetings,
I thought the TH425 was an adapted TH400 ... is it not? There is an external overdrive available for the TH400, I'm guessing the TH425 is significantly different, (the chain drive?), or someone would have figured out a way to adapt the TH400 overdrive unit to it by now.
AMDGMCMan
Alan M DeLuccio
78 Royale with
Coachmen,Center Kitchen Floorplan
09 Harley Davidson Street Glide
65 Corvair Monza Convertible
96 RAV4 2 door Manual 4WD
Long Beach, CA
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| Re: Dreaming of overdrive [message #219244 is a reply to message #219243] |
Tue, 20 August 2013 11:32 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Chain drive on one end and final drive on the other, just adequate room in mounting location. Where would you be able to put another device?
Tom, MS II
8 - 10 MPG, depending
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dreaming of overdrive [message #219247 is a reply to message #219243] |
Tue, 20 August 2013 11:54 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
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The 400 has a "tailstock" on the end of the transmission which has a driveshaft attached to go to the final drive at the rear axle.
It is easy to have a shorter driveshaft to make room for whatever you want to attach to the rear of the transmission.
The 425 turns the output through use of a chain and the final drive attaches directly to the transmission. There is no room to attach anything, such as an overdrive unit, to the output of the transmission.
Emery Stora
On Aug 20, 2013, at 10:16 AM, Alan M DeLuccio wrote:
>
>
> Greetings,
> I thought the TH425 was an adapted TH400 ... is it not? There is an external overdrive available for the TH400, I'm guessing the TH425 is significantly different, (the chain drive?), or someone would have figured out a way to adapt the TH400 overdrive unit to it by now.
> --
> AMDGMCMan
> Alan M DeLuccio
> 78 Royale with
> Coachmen,Center Kitchen Floorplan
> 09 Harley Davidson Street Glide
> 65 Corvair Monza Convertible
> 96 RAV4 2 door Manual 4WD
> Long Beach, CA
>
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| Re: Dreaming of overdrive [message #219248 is a reply to message #219149] |
Tue, 20 August 2013 12:17 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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If I recall correctly, Ken H told me that Manny had either prototyped or investigated an overdrive trans and it wasn't worth the trouble. If there is ANYONE in the world that knows how to make our tranny's better/more efficient, it would be Manny Trovao.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: Dreaming of overdrive [message #219254 is a reply to message #219149] |
Tue, 20 August 2013 13:03 |
pzerkel
Messages: 212
Registered: September 2007
Location: Salisbury, IL
Karma: 0
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I don't know why I am replying. I do know that with the tight spaces, even someone not very mechanically enlightened like me can pretty much take one look rolling around on a creeper and figure out there is not much room for any other options.
So that said, with all the talk about engines, I have always kind of thought the transmission was the real dinosaur in our drivetrain. I mean correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't a 3-speed transmission on any vehicle (let alone a 12,000 lb one) be beyond laughable in today's automotive world? Doesn't Chrysler have an 8-speed auto now?
I have a 2002 Silverado 2500 (not-HD). It has the 6.0, 4-speed auto, and a 4.1 rear axle. I have little doubt that drivetrain could move a 12,000 lb GMC. But where are you going to put that stuff in our GMCs? Let alone all the computer modules for engine, transmssion, and vehicle.
So I think about all I can practically do, is to pray that TH425's (ond Olds 403/455's) will still be around someway somehow 20 years from now, when I am retired and finally have the time to really travel in the GMC.
Paul Zerkel
'78 Eleganza II
Salisbury IL (near Springfield)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dreaming of overdrive [message #219259 is a reply to message #219243] |
Tue, 20 August 2013 14:03 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 8/20/13, Alan M DeLuccio <delbassman@yahoo.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Dreaming of overdrive
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Tuesday, August 20, 2013, 4:16 PM
Greetings,
I thought the TH425 was an adapted TH400 ... is it not?
There is an external overdrive available for the TH400, I'm
guessing the TH425 is significantly different, (the chain
drive?), or someone would have figured out a way to adapt
the TH400 overdrive unit to it by now.
--
AMDGMCMan
Alan M DeLuccio
78 Royale with
Coachmen,Center Kitchen Floorplan
09 Harley Davidson Street Glide
65 Corvair Monza Convertible
96 RAV4 2 door Manual 4WD
Long Beach, CA
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dreaming of overdrive [message #219262 is a reply to message #219243] |
Tue, 20 August 2013 14:06 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Well, one adaptation makes it turn in the opposite direction than it does in an RWD car, and another removes the tailhousing and substitutes one which bolts to the final drive. I dunno if the THM400 O/D aftermarket units fits in the tailhousing, but I bet it does. Not gonna be a simple bolt-it-on like in a Chev sedan.
--johnny
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 8/20/13, Alan M DeLuccio <delbassman@yahoo.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Dreaming of overdrive
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Tuesday, August 20, 2013, 4:16 PM
Greetings,
I thought the TH425 was an adapted TH400 ... is it not?
There is an external overdrive available for the TH400, I'm
guessing the TH425 is significantly different, (the chain
drive?), or someone would have figured out a way to adapt
the TH400 overdrive unit to it by now.
--
AMDGMCMan
Alan M DeLuccio
78 Royale with
Coachmen,Center Kitchen Floorplan
09 Harley Davidson Street Glide
65 Corvair Monza Convertible
96 RAV4 2 door Manual 4WD
Long Beach, CA
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dreaming of overdrive [message #219263 is a reply to message #219259] |
Tue, 20 August 2013 14:07 |
Ronald Pottol
Messages: 505
Registered: September 2012
Location: Redwood City, California
Karma: -2
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There are people who starting to make lockup torque converters for the
TH400, I wonder if that is close enough to work for the TH425 without too
much pain?
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 12:03 PM, Johnny Bridges <jhbridges@ymail.com>wrote:
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 8/20/13, Alan M DeLuccio <delbassman@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Dreaming of overdrive
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Date: Tuesday, August 20, 2013, 4:16 PM
>
>
>
> Greetings,
> I thought the TH425 was an adapted TH400 ... is it not?
> There is an external overdrive available for the TH400, I'm
> guessing the TH425 is significantly different, (the chain
> drive?), or someone would have figured out a way to adapt
> the TH400 overdrive unit to it by now.
> --
> AMDGMCMan
> Alan M DeLuccio
> 78 Royale with
> Coachmen,Center Kitchen Floorplan
> 09 Harley Davidson Street Glide
> 65 Corvair Monza Convertible
> 96 RAV4 2 door Manual 4WD
> Long Beach, CA
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
> _______________________________________________
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--
Plato seems wrong to me today.
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1973 26' GM outfitted
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dreaming of overdrive [message #219267 is a reply to message #219263] |
Tue, 20 August 2013 14:15 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Again, prolly worth it if you could get it to fit. However, if it were an easy fit, and provided some benefit, I'd expect to be able to buy one.
--johnny
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 8/20/13, Ronald Pottol <ronaldpottol@gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Dreaming of overdrive
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Tuesday, August 20, 2013, 7:07 PM
There are people who starting to make
lockup torque converters for the
TH400, I wonder if that is close enough to work for the
TH425 without too
much pain?
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 12:03 PM, Johnny Bridges <jhbridges@ymail.com>wrote:
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 8/20/13, Alan M DeLuccio <delbassman@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Dreaming of overdrive
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Date: Tuesday, August 20, 2013, 4:16 PM
>
>
>
> Greetings,
> I thought the TH425 was an adapted TH400 ... is
it not?
> There is an external overdrive available for the
TH400, I'm
> guessing the TH425 is significantly different,
(the chain
> drive?), or someone would have figured out a way
to adapt
> the TH400 overdrive unit to it by now.
> --
> AMDGMCMan
> Alan M DeLuccio
> 78 Royale with
> Coachmen,Center Kitchen Floorplan
> 09 Harley Davidson Street Glide
> 65 Corvair Monza Convertible
> 96 RAV4 2 door Manual 4WD
> Long Beach, CA
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Plato seems wrong to me today.
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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