Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Last resort emergency panic stop brake system
| [GMCnet] Last resort emergency panic stop brake system [message #219116] |
Mon, 19 August 2013 14:14  |
Robin Hood
Messages: 1078
Registered: April 2011
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Thirty years ago, I was a kid watching TV, and there was a news segment
about Australia nad the terrible truck wrecks they supposedly have there.
With the rest of the continent trying to kill you, why not throw big trucks
into the mix as well?
Anyway, they showed some new invention... when you absolutely positively
had to stop IMMEDIATELY if not sooner, some sort of big rubber mat would
deply from in front of the rear trailer tires. Think of it likea big
conveyer belt. It was connected to the trailer in front of the tires, and
enough would unspool that the rear tires would run up on the
belt/mat/whatever it was.
The tires sat on top of the mat, which experienced a ton of friction (and
no small amount of force when the spool of belt material got to its end and
snapped taut).
I suppose the loss of all four wheels in back being replaced by a big mat
(or two belts, one for each side) might make the rear end fishtail instead
of tracking straight..
Just for a mental exercise, how ridiculous would such a system be? Assume
for the sake of argument that an emergency vaccum pump and all the other
brake upgrades have been done, and that the person contemplating this has
an unlimited budget. :)
--
Robin Hood
Jackson, MS
2013 Subaru Outback "Top Flight"
1968 Pontiac Catalina "The Cheshire Cat"
1978 GMC Royale motorhome "Pinto Bean"
1977 GMC Palm Beach motorhome "Barn Queen"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Last resort emergency panic stop brake system [message #219119 is a reply to message #219116] |
Mon, 19 August 2013 14:40  |
jknezek
Messages: 1057
Registered: December 2007
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Robin -- as a lawyer, if someone did this kind of thing and deployed it and still crashed, exactly how badly would they be sued? I know it's not your area of expertise, but just think about some lawyer up in front of a jury having an absolute field day while his/her client sits in a pathetic looking back brace at the plaintiff's table...
Thanks,
Jeremy Knezek
1976 Glenbrook
Birmingham, AL
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| Re: [GMCnet] Last resort emergency panic stop brake system [message #219120 is a reply to message #219119] |
Mon, 19 August 2013 14:46 |
Robin Hood
Messages: 1078
Registered: April 2011
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Well, yeah. But that's what insurance is for:) They can sue me up to the
policy limits and anything beyond that, well, I'm insured by the United
States Bankruptcy Court. :) If I'm barreling down a mountain pass and my
engine dies and my auxilliary vaccum pump fails (let's say that I hit a
piece of road debris that takes out a brake line) I'll take the chances and
deploy it, because at that point you've got nothing to lose.
The system I'm seeing in my head is only a little bit less ridiculous than
retro-rockets. :)
On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 2:40 PM, Jeremy <jtknezek@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Robin -- as a lawyer, if someone did this kind of thing and deployed it
> and still crashed, exactly how badly would they be sued? I know it's not
> your area of expertise, but just think about some lawyer up in front of a
> jury having an absolute field day while his/her client sits in a pathetic
> looking back brace at the plaintiff's table...
> --
> Thanks,
> Jeremy Knezek
> 1976 Glenbrook
> Birmingham, AL
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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--
Robin Hood
Jackson, MS
2013 Subaru Outback "Top Flight"
1968 Pontiac Catalina "The Cheshire Cat"
1978 GMC Royale motorhome "Pinto Bean"
1977 GMC Palm Beach motorhome "Barn Queen"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Last resort emergency panic stop brake system [message #219178 is a reply to message #219116] |
Mon, 19 August 2013 20:55 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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But you must use explosive charge to deploy the mat. You know, in the interest of speed. If the mat only went under the front bogies the rears would prevent prevent fishtail and still have foot braking control
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Last resort emergency panic stop brake system [message #219180 is a reply to message #219178] |
Mon, 19 August 2013 21:15 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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Once you loose traction on the rear your directional stability goes away and you'll likely spin due to increased oversteer. Probably not a great idea.
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] Last resort emergency panic stop brake system [message #219209 is a reply to message #219182] |
Tue, 20 August 2013 06:29 |
Robin Hood
Messages: 1078
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 3
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AHA! I knew I didn't just dream it up! Although, I could have sworn that it
was around 1980 instead of 1986.
Anyway, I looked up the Australian Road Research Board and sent them an
email to see if they can help me out with a copy of the journal article. We
shall see if they bite.
From what I can remember, the belt was stored on a roll that unspooled,
carried beneath the frame of the trailer, ahead of the rear wheels. There's
not much room beneath the frame of the GMC; if such a system were tried, it
might make more sense to carry the belt stretched out FORWARD, and then
when the leading edge is dropped, it falls to the ground and gets drug
under the wheels.
I think the idea of only deploying it so the middle set of wheels rides the
belt, leaving the rearmost wheels to help maintain a track. There's a good
chance that the Ozzy journal article may go into that.
On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 9:43 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> Robin was dead on:
>
>
> http://www.safetylit.org/citations/index.php?fuseaction=citations.viewdetails&citationIds%5B%5D=citjournalarticle_78890_34
>
> Ken "Google's My Friend" H.
> On Aug 19, 2013 7:37 PM, "Mark" <mark@habcycles.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Could the whole segment have been an April Fool's gag? It sounds WILDLY
> > improbable that anyone would actually devote the time and energy to
> develop
> > such a suicidal, rube goldbergian system...
> > --
> > Mark Hickey
> > Mesa, AZ
> > 1978 Royale Center Kitchen
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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--
Robin Hood
Jackson, MS
2013 Subaru Outback "Top Flight"
1968 Pontiac Catalina "The Cheshire Cat"
1978 GMC Royale motorhome "Pinto Bean"
1977 GMC Palm Beach motorhome "Barn Queen"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Last resort emergency panic stop brake system [message #219346 is a reply to message #219209] |
Tue, 20 August 2013 21:59 |
Robin Hood
Messages: 1078
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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I heard back from the Australians! The nice lady emailed me a copy of the
article. The article deals with research involving the Kershaw Emergency
Brake System which is based on the Skelton Drop Pad system from 1979 (aha!
I knew it was when I was just a little kid!)
What they found was that the transient forces on the belt and on the shaft
that holds the belt were pretty high. There was only a 2 to 1 safety
factor. The static loads were fine, with safety factors of 5 and 6 to 1.
that initial snap however is what they were most worried about. I think
with a safety factor of only two to one made the system not that
attractive. It was a tertiary last resort style emergency brake system, but
I guess they wanted more reliability if this is something that had to work
after the main brakes failed and after the regular emergency brakes failed.
Some Stretching of the material my lower those transient loads by spreading
them out over a longer period of time, but that's just me, and I'm not a
mechanical engineer.
I suspect that something workable could be cobbled together using hardware
store parts that would prevent a runaway coach.
On Tuesday, August 20, 2013, Robin Hood wrote:
> AHA! I knew I didn't just dream it up! Although, I could have sworn that
> it was around 1980 instead of 1986.
>
> Anyway, I looked up the Australian Road Research Board and sent them an
> email to see if they can help me out with a copy of the journal article. We
> shall see if they bite.
>
> From what I can remember, the belt was stored on a roll that unspooled,
> carried beneath the frame of the trailer, ahead of the rear wheels. There's
> not much room beneath the frame of the GMC; if such a system were tried, it
> might make more sense to carry the belt stretched out FORWARD, and then
> when the leading edge is dropped, it falls to the ground and gets drug
> under the wheels.
>
> I think the idea of only deploying it so the middle set of wheels rides
> the belt, leaving the rearmost wheels to help maintain a track. There's a
> good chance that the Ozzy journal article may go into that.
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 9:43 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net<javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'hend4800@bellsouth.net');>
> > wrote:
>
>> Robin was dead on:
>>
>>
>> http://www.safetylit.org/citations/index.php?fuseaction=citations.viewdetails&citationIds%5B%5D=citjournalarticle_78890_34
>>
>> Ken "Google's My Friend" H.
>> On Aug 19, 2013 7:37 PM, "Mark" <mark@habcycles.com <javascript:_e({},
>> 'cvml', 'mark@habcycles.com');>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > Could the whole segment have been an April Fool's gag? It sounds WILDLY
>> > improbable that anyone would actually devote the time and energy to
>> develop
>> > such a suicidal, rube goldbergian system...
>> > --
>> > Mark Hickey
>> > Mesa, AZ
>> > 1978 Royale Center Kitchen
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > GMCnet mailing list
>> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Robin Hood
> Jackson, MS
> 2013 Subaru Outback "Top Flight"
> 1968 Pontiac Catalina "The Cheshire Cat"
> 1978 GMC Royale motorhome "Pinto Bean"
> 1977 GMC Palm Beach motorhome "Barn Queen"
>
--
Robin Hood
Jackson, MS
2013 Subaru Outback "Top Flight"
1968 Pontiac Catalina "The Cheshire Cat"
1978 GMC Royale motorhome "Pinto Bean"
1977 GMC Palm Beach motorhome "Barn Queen"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Last resort emergency panic stop brake system [message #219351 is a reply to message #219346] |
Tue, 20 August 2013 22:32 |
jim kanomata
Messages: 257
Registered: March 2007
Location: fremont,ca
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Ask Steve Furgason about his experience with our Applied Chuck Aulger Disc Reaction arm Braking system.
He felt that the stopping power without skidding was like stoping a car.
Gary Kosier and others that have our units can testify to its ability to stop almost on a dime.
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Last resort emergency panic stop brake system [message #219387 is a reply to message #219351] |
Wed, 21 August 2013 06:26 |
Robin Hood
Messages: 1078
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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JimK,
The 1 ton front end, four-bag (or possibly SullyBag), and reaction arm disc
brake conversions are all on my list of things to get done while there is
still vendor support! :)
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:32 PM, jim kanomata
<jimk@appliedairfilters.com>wrote:
>
>
> Ask Steve Furgason about his experience with our Applied Chuck Aulger Disc
> Reaction arm Braking system.
> He felt that the stopping power without skidding was like stoping a car.
> Gary Kosier and others that have our units can testify to its ability to
> stop almost on a dime.
> --
> Applied/GMC, Fremont, CA
> 1-800-752-7502
> jimk@appliedgmc.com
> www.appliedgmc.com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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--
Robin Hood
Jackson, MS
2013 Subaru Outback "Top Flight"
1968 Pontiac Catalina "The Cheshire Cat"
1978 GMC Royale motorhome "Pinto Bean"
1977 GMC Palm Beach motorhome "Barn Queen"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Last resort emergency panic stop brake system [message #219519 is a reply to message #219517] |
Wed, 21 August 2013 23:30 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Randy,
Here's the scenario, you're driving a big rig in the Outback on one of the many dirt roads. You loose your brakes as you head down
into a valley. You're gaining speed so you deploy the emergency brake mat. It is attached to the frame of the trailer and goes under
the rear four pairs of tires. The matt acts like eight wheels with locked brakes. I reckon that the coefficient of drag of the eight
tires sitting on the pad would be greater than the contact patch of the eight tires on there own.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy
One question a dumb non-engineer that I am has is, "What the heck are you supposed to attach the fixed part of the mat to and with
what?" Sounds to me like you've just transformed a runaway truck into a giant rubber toboggan.
--
Randy
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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