Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » The KISS Parking Brake
| The KISS Parking Brake [message #218816] |
Sat, 17 August 2013 20:09  |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Kiss = Keep It Simple Stupid....or Kerry's Insanely Simple System. Choose one. Regardless, it would be hard to be simpler than this.
When I had drum brakes the parking brake sucked. When I installed the Manny Brake System, they sucked worse and while good things are in the works, at the moment the parking brake situation is just about useless.
I've been thinking about a mechanical brake holder downer thingie for some months after Ken Henderson explained his electric vacuum puller system.
Anyway, here is the prototype I came up with. The first thing is the anchor point. After looking around, I discovered that the steering column bracket is bolted to the foot well with four 5/16 carriage bolts. I removed the lower inner (closest to the engine) and replaced it with a 5/16 eye bolt. ( I didn't have a 5/16 eye bolt so I welded a loop to a 5/16 nut. ) I had to pull the plastic foot well out of the way to get the carriage bolt out.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6433/m_0181.jpg
Then I had to prototype the hooks. Another eye bolt was cut so it a hook. Another hook was welded to a tube with a nut welded to each end. The two were screwed together and a handle bent from 1/4 rod and welded to the top hook.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6433/m_0171.jpg
That's pretty much it. When you want to engage it, simply hook the bottom into the floor eye bolt, depress the brake pedal and swing the top hook over the pedal arm. Pedal stays down. Brakes stay on. Coach doesn't move. Want more or less pedal just rotate the top hook to close the distance.
With it pretty tight, the coach won't move under power...at least I didn't want to rev it any higher.
Here are a couple shots of it in place:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6433/m_0191.jpg
Other side view:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6433/m_0201.jpg
The only other thing is to deal with the brake light being on whenever the brake pedal is down. The simple solution is to fine the brake wire and move it from an always on 12V to a line that is switched on by the ignition switch.
The next version will have a knob on the shaft that will allow the adjustment of the top hook while on the pedal. That way you can just twist it a couple times to really set the pedal and back it off to remove. Although, I doubt that the last 1/4" of pedal travel will change how hard the coach is to move.
It might make sense to paint the floor hook a bright red or something. A small flashlight handy to the drivers seat might be useful for nighttime work.
I'd thought about doing something using a cable and the original hand brake lever to pull the pedal down but want to keep the rear cable linkage intact for the anticipated new parking brake.
Even so, there might be times where having all six wheels locked and not depending on the parking pawl would be a very, very good thing.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
[Updated on: Sat, 17 August 2013 20:12] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
| Re: The KISS Parking Brake [message #218818 is a reply to message #218816] |
Sat, 17 August 2013 20:20  |
Otterwan
Messages: 946
Registered: July 2013
Location: Lynnwood (north of Seattl...
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
The only problem I see with that system is that if you have even the tiniest leak in your hydraulic system, it will leak down under the constant pressure. The hydraulic brake system is designed by default do be in the disengaged position, not under constant pressure. Also, you still have no emergency brake in the event of hydraulic brake failure.
Just my 2 cents worth
1977 Birchaven, Lynnwood WA - "We may not be able to stop all evil in the world, but I know that how we treat one another is entirely up to us."
|
|
|
|
| Re: The KISS Parking Brake [message #218821 is a reply to message #218818] |
Sat, 17 August 2013 20:36 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
|
Senior Member |
|
|
| Otterwan wrote on Sat, 17 August 2013 20:20 |
The only problem I see with that system is that if you have even the tiniest leak in your hydraulic system, it will leak down under the constant pressure. The hydraulic brake system is designed by default do be in the disengaged position, not under constant pressure. Also, you still have no emergency brake in the event of hydraulic brake failure.
|
True...all true. Although I'm not sure the OEM brake things could truthfully be called 'emergency brake'. Mine certainly wasn't the least effective but I've never driven a 'new' stock coach either. There is a lot I don't know.
Personally I don't see myself setting this hard except on emergency conditions on a significant slope. I'm just not going to be parking on slopes of any consequence...not on purpose anyway. In the event I did, I'd probably put some chocks on the wheels and back off the KISS brake.
That said, I think Ken Henderson has been using his for years with no bad side effects. Different mechanisms to do the same thing.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] The KISS Parking Brake [message #218830 is a reply to message #218821] |
Sat, 17 August 2013 21:25 |
mickeysss
Messages: 1476
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I think this is a great idea, if there is a leak it is best to find it stopped and not moving anyway.
great idea. I am going to try and do it. thank you mickey anaheim ca. 77 palm beach.
On Aug 17, 2013, at 6:36 PM, Kerry Pinkerton wrote:
>
>
> Otterwan wrote on Sat, 17 August 2013 20:20
>> The only problem I see with that system is that if you have even the tiniest leak in your hydraulic system, it will leak down under the constant pressure. The hydraulic brake system is designed by default do be in the disengaged position, not under constant pressure. Also, you still have no emergency brake in the event of hydraulic brake failure.
>
>
> True...all true. Although I'm not sure the OEM brake things could truthfully be called 'emergency brake'. Mine certainly wasn't the least effective but I've never driven a 'new' stock coach either. There is a lot I don't know.
>
> Personally I don't see myself setting this hard except on emergency conditions on a significant slope. I'm just not going to be parking on slopes of any consequence...not on purpose anyway. In the event I did, I'd probably put some chocks on the wheels and back off the KISS brake.
>
> That said, I think Ken Henderson has been using his for years with no bad side effects. Different mechanisms to do the same thing.
>
>
>
> --
> Kerry Pinkerton
>
> North Alabama, near Huntsville,
>
> 77 Eleganza II, "The Lady", 403CI, also a 76 Eleganza being re-bodied as an Art Deco car hauler
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
| Re: The KISS Parking Brake [message #219221 is a reply to message #218816] |
Tue, 20 August 2013 09:08 |
bpimm
Messages: 211
Registered: June 2013
Location: Washougal Washington
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Instead of the knob for adjustment you could incorporate the grip handle design of a caulking gun to tighten the brake up and release it. I think the rotate to release type of mechanism would be better.
Brian & RaeDean
1973 26' #383
Washougal WA
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] The KISS Parking Brake [message #219357 is a reply to message #218816] |
Tue, 20 August 2013 22:48 |
kelvin
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2004
Location: Eugene, OR
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
My version. Even more KISS than Kerry's.
What I started with . $2.57 worth of eye-bolts and coupler nuts.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/3240/Kerry_Brake_1.jpg
What I ended up with. A very short version of what I started with.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/3240/Kerry_Brake_2.jpg
Installed.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/3240/Kerry_Brake_3.jpg
This will hold the coach pointed downhill on the steepest hill I could
find. Had to climb this hill in 1st gear, so I'm guessing well over 7%.
I don't know that I need a "handle" on it. Pretty straight-forward to
install it from the driver's seat. Store it in the map pocket so it's
always handy.
I'm a happy camper.I wasn't keen on driving with virtually no parking
brake. Thanks for the idea, Kerry.
Kelvin
'73 23' in Eugene, OR
On 8/17/2013 6:09 PM, Kerry Pinkerton wrote:
>
> Kiss = Keep It Simple Stupid. It would be hard to be simpler than this.
>
> When I had drum brakes the parking brake sucked. When I installed the Manny Brake System, they sucked worse and while good things are in the works, at the moment the parking brake situation is just about useless.
>
> I've been thinking about a mechanical brake holder downer thingie for some months after Ken Henderson explained his electric vacuum puller system.
>
> Anyway, here is the prototype I came up with. The first thing is the anchor point. After looking around, I discovered that the steering column bracket is bolted to the foot well with four 5/16 carriage bolts. I removed the lower inner (closest to the engine) and replaced it with a 5/16 eye bolt. ( I didn't have a 5/16 eye bolt so I welded a loop to a 5/16 nut. ) I had to pull the plastic foot well out of the way to get the carriage bolt out.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6433/m_0181.jpg
>
>
>
> Then I had to prototype the hooks. Another eye bolt was cut so it a hook. Another hook was welded to a tube with a nut welded to each end. The two were screwed together and a handle bent from 1/4 rod and welded to the top hook.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6433/m_0171.jpg
>
>
>
> That's pretty much it. When you want to engage it, simply hook the bottom into the floor eye bolt, depress the brake pedal and swing the top hook over the pedal arm. Pedal stays down. Brakes stay on. Coach doesn't move. Want more or less pedal just rotate the top hook to close the distance.
>
> With it pretty tight, the coach won't move under power...at least I didn't want to rev it any higher.
>
> Here are a couple shots of it in place:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6433/m_0191.jpg
>
>
>
> Other side view:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6433/m_0201.jpg
>
>
>
> The only other thing is to deal with the brake light being on whenever the brake pedal is down. The simple solution is to fine the brake wire and move it from an always on 12V to a line that is switched on by the ignition switch.
>
> The next version will have a knob on the shaft that will allow the adjustment of the top hook while on the pedal. That way you can just twist it a couple times to really set the pedal and back it off to remove. Although, I doubt that the last 1/4" of pedal travel will change how hard the coach is to move.
>
> It might make sense to paint the floor hook a bright red or something. A small flashlight handy to the drivers seat might be useful for nighttime work.
>
> I'd thought about doing something using a cable and the original hand brake lever to pull the pedal down but want to keep the rear cable linkage intact for the anticipated new parking brake.
>
> Even so, there might be times where having all six wheels locked and not depending on the parking pawl would be a very, very good thing.
>
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] The KISS Parking Brake [message #219421 is a reply to message #219357] |
Wed, 21 August 2013 10:03 |
Don A
Messages: 895
Registered: October 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Looks great Kelvin. Not many threads on the eyes in the shortened coupler nut. But WOW I love it.
Don Adams Dallas, TX
'76 26' Glenbrook, '90 Sidekick
rebuilt by R Archer, powered by J Bounds, Koba
[IMG]http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6109/G2.jpg[/IMG]
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: The KISS Parking Brake [message #220139 is a reply to message #218821] |
Tue, 27 August 2013 19:48 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Ok, Ok, I hear everyone's comments. Including Tom Pryor's.
All that said. HOW FRIGGING MANY of the coaches on this list have a parking brake alone that YOU WILL TRUST to hold their coach on a 20% slope? That is what the US CODE that Tom referred to says....30% in park AND the parking brake. How many?
How many of you want to trust your parking pawl to hold the coach while you are behind it? Not to mention the cost of fixing the tranny if it fails...and hoping you can get it out of park with a load on the pawl.
How many of you would like to be in the situation that Ken Henderson was in in Seattle a couple weeks back? That is, a 25% slope, traffic behind you, and not enough traction to move forward, and a towd. He was able to set his brakes (with a pneumatic version of the same thing), go back release his toad, and drive off. Elaine was with him. What if he had been alone with a 'normally effective' GMC parking brake?
Several people here use line locks and have for years. Yeah, I know they are not legal everywhere. But guess what, if I'm alone and need to stop on a hill, I'm going to be damn glad I can set the brake AT LEAST long enough to throw something behind the wheels. I NEVER proposed (read the quote below and know that it was post #3 in the original thread) that this was intended for full time use.
| Kerry Pinkerton wrote on Sat, 17 August 2013 20:36 |
...Personally I don't see myself setting this hard except on emergency conditions on a significant slope. I'm just not going to be parking on slopes of any consequence...not on purpose anyway. In the event I did, I'd probably put some chocks on the wheels and back off the KISS brake....
|
So some of you don't want to use this as a full time parking brake. I don't either LONG TERM. At least until I have the 1 ton front end on the coach that is currently in a crate. Then I'll have new EVERYTHING in the brake system. Calipers, stainless steel lines, P30 MC, hoses, etc.
Personally, I can't see how using the KISS brake for 5 minutes until you can get the coach properly blocked is anything different than holding your foot on the brake pedal for 5 minutes while someone blocks your coach. If there is a difference, I don't know what it is...but there are certainly things I don't know.  
There are coaches on the road RIGHT NOW, that have virtually or literally NO parking brakes. Somehow I don't think US Code would think much of that either.
Use it or not..up to you. I'm not selling them. I'm not proposing that anyone make their own. It's just what I did. I'll use it until we have a better solution (it's coming...it's coming). I'm certainly not going back to drum brakes.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
[Updated on: Wed, 28 August 2013 05:30] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] The KISS Parking Brake [message #220184 is a reply to message #220139] |
Wed, 28 August 2013 09:27 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Kerry,
I agree with what you've noted below and you're KISS parking brake works well.
The problem arises if you want to register a GMC in a state that requires a mechanical parking brake. When I bought Double Trouble
it had six wheel disk brakes and NO parking brake at all.
We wanted to tour in it for six weeks so we asked my cousin in NJ to register it. NJ is a state that requires a mechanical parking
brake. To comply Ken Frey removed the rear disks, installed drum brakes, and connected the drums to the OEM cables.
The night before I took Double Trouble to the state run inspection station I adjusted the brakes and the cables within an inch of
their lives. Just before I got out of the coach to let the state inspector drive it through the tests I adjusted the knob in the
brake lever WAAY out.
As Double Trouble proceeded through the building and tests I anxiously awaited the parking brake test; when the inspector got to it
I saw him REALLY pulling hard to actuate the parking brake lever. He succeeded and I passed inspection.
The only reason I mention this before you install a KISS parking brake you need to check with the state in which your GMC is
registered to make sure they're legal.
I intend to install a KISS brake in Double Trouble because of what Kerry notes below.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kerry Pinkerton
Ok, Ok, I hear everyone's comments. Including Tom Pryor's.
All that said. HOW FRIGGING MANY of the coaches on this list have a parking brake alone that YOU WILL TRUST to hold their coach on
a 20% slope? That is what the US CODE that Tom referred to says....30% in park AND the parking brake. How many?
How many of you want to trust your parking pawl to hold the coach while you are behind it? Not to mention the cost of fixing the
tranny if it fails...and hoping you can get it out of park with a load on the pawl.
How many of you would like to be in the situation that Ken Henderson was in in Seattle a couple weeks back? That is, a 25% slope,
traffic behind you, and not enough traction to move forward, and a towd. He was able to set his brakes (with a pneumatic version of
the same thing), go back release his toad, and drive off. Elaine was with him. What if he had been alone with a 'normally
effective' GMC parking brake?
Several people here use line locks and have for years. Yeah, I know they are not legal everywhere. But guess what, if I'm alone
and need to stop on a hill, I'm going to be damn glad I can set the brake AT LEAST long enough to throw something behind the wheels.
I NEVER proposed (read the quote below and know that it was post #3 in the original thread) that this was intended for full time
use.
Kerry Pinkerton wrote on Sat, 17 August 2013 20:36
> ...Personally I don't see myself setting this hard except on emergency conditions on a significant slope. I'm just not going to
be parking on slopes of any consequence...not on purpose anyway. In the event I did, I'd probably put some chocks on the wheels and
back off the KISS brake....
So some of you don't want to use this as a full time parking brake. I don't either LONG TERM. At least until I have the 1 ton
front end on the coach that is currently in a crate. Then I'll have new EVERYTHING in the brake system. Calipers, stainless steel
lines, P310 MC, hoses, etc.
Personally, I can't see how using the KISS brake for 5 minutes until you can get the coach properly blocked is anything different
than holding your foot on the brake pedal for 5 minutes while someone blocks your coach. If there is a difference, I don't know
what it is...but there are certainly things I don't know. 8o :lol:
There are coaches on the road RIGHT NOW, that have virtually or literally NO parking brakes. Somehow I don't think US Code would
think much of that either.
Use it or not..up to you. I'm not selling them. I'm not proposing that anyone make their own. It's just what I did. I'll use it
until we have a better solution (it's coming...it's coming). I'm certainly not going back to drum brakes.
--
Kerry Pinkerton
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] The KISS Parking Brake [message #220202 is a reply to message #220139] |
Wed, 28 August 2013 10:33 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Mine will hold, but you must apply them outside the coach after stopping. 2 foot sections of 4X4 treated oak behind the wheels. The handle beside the drivers seat doesn't move with all my strength. PO (who was a much younger/stronger dude) said it never moved for him either.
--johnny
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 8/28/13, Kerry Pinkerton <Pinkertonk@MCHSI.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] The KISS Parking Brake
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Wednesday, August 28, 2013, 12:48 AM
Ok, Ok, I hear everyone's comments. Including Tom
Pryor's.
All that said. HOW FRIGGING MANY of the coaches on
this list have a parking brake alone that YOU WILL TRUST to
hold their coach on a 20% slope? That is what the US
CODE that Tom referred to says....30% in park AND the
parking brake. How many?
How many of you want to trust your parking pawl to hold the
coach while you are behind it? Not to mention the cost
of fixing the tranny if it fails...and hoping you can get it
out of park with a load on the pawl.
How many of you would like to be in the situation that Ken
Henderson was in in Seattle a couple weeks back? That
is, a 25% slope, traffic behind you, and not enough traction
to move forward, and a towd. He was able to set his
brakes (with a pneumatic version of the same thing), go back
release his toad, and drive off. Elaine was with
him. What if he had been alone with a 'normally
effective' GMC parking brake?
Several people here use line locks and have for years.
Yeah, I know they are not legal everywhere. But guess
what, if I'm alone and need to stop on a hill, I'm going to
be damn glad I can set the brake AT LEAST long enough to
throw something behind the wheels. I NEVER proposed
(read the quote below and know that it was post #3 in the
original thread) that this was intended for full time use.
Kerry Pinkerton wrote on Sat, 17 August 2013 20:36
> ...Personally I don't see myself setting this hard
except on emergency conditions on a significant slope.
I'm just not going to be parking on slopes of any
consequence...not on purpose anyway. In the event I
did, I'd probably put some chocks on the wheels and back off
the KISS brake....
So some of you don't want to use this as a full time parking
brake. I don't either LONG TERM. At least until
I have the 1 ton front end on the coach that is currently in
a crate. Then I'll have new EVERYTHING in the brake
system. Calipers, stainless steel lines, P310 MC,
hoses, etc.
Personally, I can't see how using the KISS brake for 5
minutes until you can get the coach properly blocked is
anything different than holding your foot on the brake pedal
for 5 minutes while someone blocks your coach. If
there is a difference, I don't know what it is...but there
are certainly things I don't know. 8o :lol:
There are coaches on the road RIGHT NOW, that have virtually
or literally NO parking brakes. Somehow I don't think
US Code would think much of that either.
Use it or not..up to you. I'm not selling them. I'm
not proposing that anyone make their own. It's just
what I did. I'll use it until we have a better
solution (it's coming...it's coming). I'm certainly
not going back to drum brakes.
--
Kerry Pinkerton
North Alabama, near Huntsville,
77 Eleganza II, "The Lady", 403CI, also a 76 Eleganza being
re-bodied as an Art Deco car hauler
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
|
|
|
|
| Re: The KISS Parking Brake [message #220258 is a reply to message #218816] |
Wed, 28 August 2013 20:04 |
bwevers
Messages: 597
Registered: October 2010
Location: San Jose
Karma: 5
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Let me see if I understand how this works:
1) You step on the brake pedal (Vacuum booster is supplying force).
2) You hook the brake pedal with device.
Questions:
How tight is the hook over the pedal?
Do you tightened it like a turnbuckle?
It looks to me as if the hook has to be loose enough
to slide over the top of the brake pedal. And after
you set the brake this way, it will loosen up slightly.
So,what happens after 30 minutes when your vacuum leaks
away past the 30 year old check valve on your brake booster?
I like putting blocks between the rear wheels.
Regards,
Bill
Bill Wevers GMC49ers, GMC Western States
1975 Glenbrook - Manny Powerdrive, OneTon
455 F Block, G heads
San Jose
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Sat Sep 21 10:22:39 CDT 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.01506 seconds
|
GMCforum
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
