Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Terminology Translation
| Terminology Translation [message #217423] |
Thu, 08 August 2013 16:28  |
SThornbg
Messages: 127
Registered: September 2011
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Senior Member |
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Went to an alignment shop today to try to diagnose steering looseness. Recently replaced the idler arm which was worn and sloppy. This helped the problem.
Shop said alignment was pointless due to worn parts that need replacing. So, with front end elevated off the tires, they told me I need the following:
Both lower ball joints, left steering pivot (counterpart of the idler arm), all lower A-arm bushings, right side C/V boot.
Trying to look up parts in the Interchage Index, I don't find many of these terms.
Please advise what these parts are in "GMC Speak" so that I can research parts availability and prices.
Thanks for any guidance and any suggestions of other work that should be done while into this project.
Steve Thornburg
South Bend, IN
77 exPB 455 "Tinker Toy"
Steve Thornburg
South Bend, IN
77 exPB 455 "Tinker Toy"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Terminology Translation [message #217429 is a reply to message #217423] |
Thu, 08 August 2013 17:02  |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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One stop shopping!
Give Jim K a call and get theses items.
http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/1022
You also need to change the top bushing at the same time.
http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/961
These are the correct ball joints
Steering parts
http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/651
http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/652
http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/653
http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/660
All these parts are really not available locally.
JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion
Michigan
On Aug 8, 2013, at 5:28 PM, SThornbg <SThornbg@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> Went to an alignment shop today to try to diagnose steering looseness. Recently replaced the idler arm which was worn and sloppy. This helped the problem.
>
> Shop said alignment was pointless due to worn parts that need replacing. So, with front end elevated off the tires, they told me I need the following:
>
> Both lower ball joints, left steering pivot (counterpart of the idler arm), all lower A-arm bushings, right side C/V boot.
>
> Trying to look up parts in the Interchange Index, I don't find many of these terms.
>
> Please advise what these parts are in "GMC Speak" so that I can research parts availability and prices.
>
> Thanks for any guidance and any suggestions of other work that should be done while into this project.
>
> Steve Thornburg
> South Bend, IN
> 77 exPB 455 "Tinker Toy"
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Terminology Translation [message #217480 is a reply to message #217455] |
Thu, 08 August 2013 22:40 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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As the others have said about applied. His ball joint prices are nearly identical to orielly and he sells a gas charged steering stabilizer from Monroe for the same price(including shipping) as a stock double acting damper. Plus you get a good laugh out of the deal.
And of course the hard road advice w/o the hard road.
Todd Sullivan
On Aug 8, 2013, at 6:29 PM, Dan Gregg <gregg_dan@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Steve what John said. There is no way I would do anything until I spoke with one of the Jim's. I got a motor mount delivered today from Jim k.
> You need that thing driving right. Once you get it you won't believe it. Nothing drives any better than a fine tuned gmc.
> See y'all in Branson.
> Dan
> --
> Dan & Teri Gregg
> Dexter, Mo.
>
> http://danandteri.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: Terminology Translation [message #217484 is a reply to message #217457] |
Thu, 08 August 2013 23:16 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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| rf_burns wrote on Thu, 08 August 2013 18:43 |
Get your relay arm (left steering pivot (counterpart of the idler.arm)) from Dave Lenzi.
If you have to replace alot of steering components, and how are your front brakes? and are your front wheel bearings due??
You should consider the one-ton upgrade instead. You will get most of your front end replaced with better brakes and a more stable steering and ride, plus sealed wheel bearings.. 100K + life
JWID
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What he said! My control arm bushings are looking a little sad, and I probably have about 15,000 miles left on the front bearings. I'm just going to pull the plug on the one-ton front end when it's time to start changing stuff, and will come out miles ahead of putting it all back to stock. And the Lenzi relay arm made a huge difference to the handling of my coach - it's a nice part.
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: [GMCnet] Terminology Translation [message #217500 is a reply to message #217423] |
Fri, 09 August 2013 06:51 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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this is the final answer for the future of your coach
http://gmcmotorhome.info/front.html
gene
On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 2:28 PM, SThornbg <SThornbg@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> Went to an alignment shop today to try to diagnose steering looseness.
> Recently replaced the idler arm which was worn and sloppy. This helped the
> problem.
>
> Shop said alignment was pointless due to worn parts that need replacing.
> So, with front end elevated off the tires, they told me I need the
> following:
>
> Both lower ball joints, left steering pivot (counterpart of the idler
> arm), all lower A-arm bushings, right side C/V boot.
>
> Trying to look up parts in the Interchage Index, I don't find many of
> these terms.
>
> Please advise what these parts are in "GMC Speak" so that I can research
> parts availability and prices.
>
> Thanks for any guidance and any suggestions of other work that should be
> done while into this project.
>
> Steve Thornburg
> South Bend, IN
> 77 exPB 455 "Tinker Toy"
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: Terminology Translation [message #217511 is a reply to message #217423] |
Fri, 09 August 2013 08:59 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| SThornbg wrote on Thu, 08 August 2013 16:28 |
Went to an alignment shop today to try to diagnose steering looseness. Recently replaced the idler arm which was worn and sloppy. This helped the problem.
Shop said alignment was pointless due to worn parts that need replacing. So, with front end elevated off the tires, they told me I need the following:
Both lower ball joints, left steering pivot (counterpart of the idler arm), all lower A-arm bushings, right side C/V boot.
Trying to look up parts in the Interchage Index, I don't find many of these terms.
Please advise what these parts are in "GMC Speak" so that I can research parts availability and prices.
Thanks for any guidance and any suggestions of other work that should be done while into this project.
Steve Thornburg
South Bend, IN
77 exPB 455 "Tinker Toy"
|
For the lower A-frame bushing use the ones from Energy Suspension. Jim K. has them at a reasonable price. Lower ball joints again from Jim K. On the left steering pivot you definitely want the redesigned one from Dave Lenzi in Michigan. I believe Jim K also has these. There is a replacement CV boot available made by Dorman. I do not know the part number but when I needed two of them I also got them from Jim K.
You might also look at upper A-frame bushings while you have it apart. Usually they are good but it is simple job to replace them while you have everything apart. The bottom ones are always bad if you have original ones in the coach.
You can try to find these parts elsewhere but you will save little if any money and stand a good chance of getting the wrong items. So call Jim K. and get them correct and all in one order.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Terminology Translation [message #217522 is a reply to message #217518] |
Fri, 09 August 2013 09:44 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Matt,
I've got well over 10,000 miles on the 1-ton, including 6000+ in the past 3
months, with NO indication of any adverse effects.
Ken H.
On Aug 9, 2013 7:32 AM, "Matt Colie" <matt7323tze@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Mr ERFisher wrote on Fri, 09 August 2013 07:51
> > this is the final answer for the future of your coach
> >
> > http://gmcmotorhome.info/front.html
> >
> > gene
>
> Gene,
>
> Has anybody figured out how to fix the adverse camber transition cause by
> the mismatch of the frame pivots and ball joints yet. I have been holding
> off until that gets resolved.
>
> Tom Pryor got the rear to work right, so, I have been waiting for the
> front.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie
> '73 Glacier 23 Chaumière (say show-me-air)
> Now with 4 working Rear Brakes
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> _______________________________________________
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> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Terminology Translation [message #217603 is a reply to message #217544] |
Fri, 09 August 2013 20:41 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Mark,
At the Shawnee GMCMI Convention Bob Drewes made a presentation on how he replaced the upper control arms with ones from another
vehicle which "fixed" the "problem."
AFAIK he's the only person who has attempted this; it took SERIOUS fabrication skills to make that mod.
Below you note; "The current solution is to remove and re-attach the frame pivots." Do you know who did that?
IIRC the ball joint mounting points on the GMC OEM knuckle are 9 inches apart and on the 1 ton it's 11 inches.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Behalf Of A.
> Gene,
>
> Has anybody figured out how to fix the adverse camber transition cause by the mismatch of the frame pivots and ball joints yet. I
have been holding off until that gets resolved.
>
> Tom Pryor got the rear to work right, so, I have been waiting for the front.
>
> Matt
Not trying to steal Gene's thunder, but almost certainly not. The current solution is to remove and re-attach the frame pivots.
Not part of the kit.
The cause of the mismatch is the distance between top and bottom ball joint connections on the knuckle. Seems to be greater on the
one one-ton knuckle.
In a perfect universe, I would be able to take a close look at an OEM knuckle and a one-ton knuckle together at the same time and
see if machine work on the one-ton knuckle would be an option for correcting that, without compromising the strength of the knuckle.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Terminology Translation [message #217610 is a reply to message #217603] |
Fri, 09 August 2013 21:52 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
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Senior Member |
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Fri, 09 August 2013 20:41 |
Mark,
At the Shawnee GMCMI Convention Bob Drewes made a presentation on how he replaced the upper control arms with ones from another
vehicle which "fixed" the "problem."
AFAIK he's the only person who has attempted this; it took SERIOUS fabrication skills to make that mod.
Below you note; "The current solution is to remove and re-attach the frame pivots." Do you know who did that?
IIRC the ball joint mounting points on the GMC OEM knuckle are 9 inches apart and on the 1 ton it's 11 inches.
Regards,
Rob M.
|
Rob,
I don't know if anyone has ever moved the frame pivots.
If you think about the front end geometry, the only way to keep the wheels vertical when hitting bumps and potholes is if the frame, a-arms, and knuckle/ball joint assembly form a parallelagram. With the one-ton knuckle, it forms a sideways trapezoid. When you hit a bump, the bottom of the wheel kicks out, when you drop into a pothole, the top kicks out. Unavoidable until/unless you restore the parallelagram.
A non-issue as long as the axle centerline is horizontal, which is any time you are not on a bump or in a pothole. It is probably not a reason to avoid the one-ton conversion. Just an unadvertised "feature".
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| Re: [GMCnet] Terminology Translation [message #217611 is a reply to message #217610] |
Fri, 09 August 2013 21:54 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
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Senior Member |
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| A Hamilto wrote on Fri, 09 August 2013 21:52 |
| Robert Mueller wrote on Fri, 09 August 2013 20:41 |
Mark,
At the Shawnee GMCMI Convention Bob Drewes made a presentation on how he replaced the upper control arms with ones from another
vehicle which "fixed" the "problem."
AFAIK he's the only person who has attempted this; it took SERIOUS fabrication skills to make that mod.
Below you note; "The current solution is to remove and re-attach the frame pivots." Do you know who did that?
IIRC the ball joint mounting points on the GMC OEM knuckle are 9 inches apart and on the 1 ton it's 11 inches.
Regards,
Rob M.
|
Rob,
I don't know if anyone has ever moved the frame pivots.
If you think about the front end geometry, the only way to keep the wheels vertical when hitting bumps and potholes is if the frame, a-arms, and knuckle/ball joint assembly form a parallelagram. With the one-ton knuckle, it forms a sideways trapezoid. When you hit a bump, the bottom of the wheel kicks out, when you drop into a pothole, the top kicks out. Unavoidable until/unless you restore the parallelagram.
A non-issue as long as the axle centerline is horizontal, which is any time you are not on a bump or in a pothole. It is probably not a reason to avoid the one-ton conversion. Just an unadvertised "feature".
|
I might have that backwards about which direction the wheel kicks in potholes and bumps. But you get the point.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Terminology Translation [message #217622 is a reply to message #217518] |
Sat, 10 August 2013 02:20 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Matt,
You are talking about camber angle, and not caster. I wonder what the new upper A-Arms from the Curtis’ might do for camber.
<http://appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/1410>
Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, CA
On Aug 9, 2013, at 7:32 AM, Matt Colie wrote:
>
> Gene,
>
> Has anybody figured out how to fix the adverse camber transition cause by the mismatch of the frame pivots and ball joints yet. I have been holding off until that gets resolved.
>
> Tom Pryor got the rear to work right, so, I have been waiting for the front.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie
> '73 Glacier 23 Chaumière (say show-me-air)
> Now with 4 working Rear Brakes
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] Terminology Translation [message #217635 is a reply to message #217610] |
Sat, 10 August 2013 09:28 |
Kosier
Messages: 834
Registered: February 2008
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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This is totally in error, but I'm not going to get into a long argument .
Gary Kosier
77 PB
cad 500
Newark, Oh
-----Original Message-----
From: A.
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 10:52 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Terminology Translation
I don't know if anyone has ever moved the frame pivots.
If you think about the front end geometry, the only way to keep the wheels
vertical when hitting bumps and potholes is if the frame, a-arms, and
knuckle/ball joint assembly form a parallelagram. With the one-ton knuckle,
it forms a sideways trapezoid. When you hit a bump, the bottom of the wheel
kicks out, when you drop into a pothole, the top kicks out. Unavoidable
until/unless you restore the parallelagram.
A non-issue as long as the axle centerline is horizontal, which is any time
you are not on a bump or in a pothole. It is probably not a reason to avoid
the one-ton conversion. Just an unadvertised "feature".
--
'73 23' Sequoia For Camping
'73 23' CanyonLands For Sale
UA (Upper Alabama)
"Time is money. If you use YOUR time, you get to keep YOUR money."
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| Re: [GMCnet] Terminology Translation [message #217694 is a reply to message #217611] |
Sat, 10 August 2013 18:29 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Mark,
Yep, I get the point.
When you made the statement; "The current solution is to remove and re-attach the frame pivots." I thought you knew someone that HAD
done it.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Behalf Of A.
I don't know if anyone has ever moved the frame pivots.
If you think about the front end geometry, the only way to keep the wheels vertical when hitting bumps and potholes is if the frame,
a-arms, and knuckle/ball joint assembly form a parallelagram. With the one-ton knuckle, it forms a sideways trapezoid. When you hit
a bump, the bottom of the wheel kicks out, when you drop into a pothole, the top kicks out. Unavoidable until/unless you restore
the parallelagram.
A non-issue as long as the axle centerline is horizontal, which is any time you are not on a bump or in a pothole. It is probably
not a reason to avoid the one-ton conversion. Just an unadvertised "feature".
I might have that backwards about which direction the wheel kicks in potholes and bumps. But you get the point.
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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