Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Ignition switch
| Ignition switch [message #214599] |
Tue, 16 July 2013 10:42  |
jayrabe
Messages: 509
Registered: June 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I drive my PB once a week, and the last two weeks I've had trouble engaging the starter. Key turns fine, accessory power comes on, but starter won't engage without wiggling and multiple tries.
I remember seeing some threads about this in the past but couldn't find them, other than a description of how the key actuates a rod and the actual switch contacts are I think about half way down the column. I haven't had time yet to investigate, but the problem is that I'm planning a trip next week and need a quick fix.
Any help mucho appreciated.
Jay Rabe
76 PB
Portland, OR
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| Re: Ignition switch [message #214602 is a reply to message #214599] |
Tue, 16 July 2013 11:15  |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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Sir: the ignition switch is on the lower steering column. There are 2 screws holding it and is adjustable. Loosen the screws and slide the switch up just a little and tighten screws.. The pic shows an updated column with the dimmer switch on the same screws. Yours will not have this switch.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/s-10-steering-wheel-caddy-conversion/p48874-ignition-switch.html
| jayrabe wrote on Tue, 16 July 2013 11:42 |
I drive my PB once a week, and the last two weeks I've had trouble engaging the starter. Key turns fine, accessory power comes on, but starter won't engage without wiggling and multiple tries.
I remember seeing some threads about this in the past but couldn't find them, other than a description of how the key actuates a rod and the actual switch contacts are I think about half way down the column. I haven't had time yet to investigate, but the problem is that I'm planning a trip next week and need a quick fix.
Any help mucho appreciated.
Jay Rabe
76 PB
Portland, OR
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C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ignition switch [message #214606 is a reply to message #214602] |
Tue, 16 July 2013 12:19 |
jayrabe
Messages: 509
Registered: June 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Thanks Charles. I'll attempt that when I get back to the coach on Thursday. Thanks for the tips.
Jay Rabe
76 PB
Portland, OR
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: covered-wagon@comcast.net
> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 11:15:40 -0500
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Ignition switch
>
>
>
> Sir: the ignition switch is on the lower steering column. There are 2 screws holding it and is adjustable. Loosen the screws and slide the switch up just a little and tighten screws.. The pic shows an updated column with the dimmer switch on the same screws. Yours will not have this switch.
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/s-10-steering-wheel-caddy-conversion/p48874-ignition-switch.html
>
>
>
> jayrabe wrote on Tue, 16 July 2013 11:42
> > I drive my PB once a week, and the last two weeks I've had trouble engaging the starter. Key turns fine, accessory power comes on, but starter won't engage without wiggling and multiple tries.
> > I remember seeing some threads about this in the past but couldn't find them, other than a description of how the key actuates a rod and the actual switch contacts are I think about half way down the column. I haven't had time yet to investigate, but the problem is that I'm planning a trip next week and need a quick fix.
> >
> > Any help mucho appreciated.
> >
> > Jay Rabe
> > 76 PB
> > Portland, OR
>
>
> --
> C. Boyd
> 76 Crestmont
> East Tennessee
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| Re: Ignition switch [message #214612 is a reply to message #214602] |
Tue, 16 July 2013 13:51 |
Otterwan
Messages: 946
Registered: July 2013
Location: Lynnwood (north of Seattl...
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| C Boyd wrote on Tue, 16 July 2013 09:15 |
Sir: the ignition switch is on the lower steering column. There are 2 screws holding it and is adjustable. Loosen the screws and slide the switch up just a little and tighten screws.. The pic shows an updated column with the dimmer switch on the same screws. Yours will not have this switch.
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Mr. Boyd, I'm going to start a new religion based on you. My 1976 Royale has always taken and excessive amount of force to engage the starter. I just assumed this was old age and that one day (at the most inopportune time imaginable) it was going to snap off in my hand.
Well after reading your post, I pulled the cover under the column, found the switch, loosened the 2 5/16" cap screws, slid the switch up, tightened the screws and now it starts like dream!
If you're ever in the Lynnwood WA area, I owe you a beer. Or three. Many, many thanks!
1977 Birchaven, Lynnwood WA - "We may not be able to stop all evil in the world, but I know that how we treat one another is entirely up to us."
[Updated on: Tue, 16 July 2013 14:07] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Ignition switch [message #214615 is a reply to message #214602] |
Tue, 16 July 2013 14:55 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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Senior Member |
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Chuck,
I know you are one of the experts with the GMC column.
Your suggestion of moving the ignition switch up worked great but I am confused. Please help me understand how moving the switch by our feet _up_ helped. When the key is turned to start the rod pulls up. (Mine is broken and I have a .22 cleaning rod alongside my column that I pull to start my engine. I know, sad...)
I would have thought that the switch wasn't being pulled far enough because of wear in the column mechanism.
Thanks in advance.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ignition switch [message #214619 is a reply to message #214606] |
Tue, 16 July 2013 15:09 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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George,
Why don't you replace the key assembly, they come with a new set of keys?
JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion
Michigan
On Jul 16, 2013, at 1:19 PM, Jay Rabe <jayrabe@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks Charles. I'll attempt that when I get back to the coach on Thursday. Thanks for the tips.
>
>
> Jay Rabe
>
> 76 PB
>
> Portland, OR
>
>
>> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
>> From: covered-wagon@comcast.net
>> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 11:15:40 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Ignition switch
>>
>>
>>
>> Sir: the ignition switch is on the lower steering column. There are 2 screws holding it and is adjustable. Loosen the screws and slide the switch up just a little and tighten screws.. The pic shows an updated column with the dimmer switch on the same screws. Yours will not have this switch.
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/s-10-steering-wheel-caddy-conversion/p48874-ignition-switch.html
>>
>>
>>
>> jayrabe wrote on Tue, 16 July 2013 11:42
>>> I drive my PB once a week, and the last two weeks I've had trouble engaging the starter. Key turns fine, accessory power comes on, but starter won't engage without wiggling and multiple tries.
>>> I remember seeing some threads about this in the past but couldn't find them, other than a description of how the key actuates a rod and the actual switch contacts are I think about half way down the column. I haven't had time yet to investigate, but the problem is that I'm planning a trip next week and need a quick fix.
>>>
>>> Any help mucho appreciated.
>>>
>>> Jay Rabe
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: Ignition switch [message #214624 is a reply to message #214612] |
Tue, 16 July 2013 15:51 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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Thanks for the offer. My drink of choice is a RC cola and maybe a Moon Pie.
| Otterwan wrote on Tue, 16 July 2013 14:51 |
| C Boyd wrote on Tue, 16 July 2013 09:15 |
Sir: the ignition switch is on the lower steering column. There are 2 screws holding it and is adjustable. Loosen the screws and slide the switch up just a little and tighten screws.. The pic shows an updated column with the dimmer switch on the same screws. Yours will not have this switch.
|
Mr. Boyd, I'm going to start a new religion based on you. My 1976 Royale has always taken and excessive amount of force to engage the starter. I just assumed this was old age and that one day (at the most inopportune time imaginable) it was going to snap off in my hand.
Well after reading your post, I pulled the cover under the column, found the switch, loosened the 2 5/16" cap screws, slid the switch up, tightened the screws and now it starts like dream!
If you're ever in the Lynnwood WA area, I owe you a beer. Or three. Many, many thanks!
|
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: Ignition switch [message #214627 is a reply to message #214615] |
Tue, 16 July 2013 16:06 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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OK let me see if I can cover my butt on this one. As you know pulling does activate the start but the spring loaded start section of the switch is quite wide compared to acc, off, lock , and on. Most of the time the switch wears where it stops. By stopping it shorter it is a non worn place. I think I have actually only seen one (Howard Nylanders) that I had to lower to get in adjustment and the screws weren't real tight on it so I actually think it moved up out of the start range over time . So if it don`t help raising the switch a little, try lowering it.
Thank you for the kind words but I am far from being an expert on anystuff. I have done a bunch of columns and seem to learn something new on everyone.
| George Beckman wrote on Tue, 16 July 2013 15:55 |
Chuck,
I know you are one of the experts with the GMC column.
Your suggestion of moving the ignition switch up worked great but I am confused. Please help me understand how moving the switch by our feet _up_ helped. When the key is turned to start the rod pulls up. (Mine is broken and I have a .22 cleaning rod alongside my column that I pull to start my engine. I know, sad...)
I would have thought that the switch wasn't being pulled far enough because of wear in the column mechanism.
Thanks in advance.
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C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ignition switch [message #214657 is a reply to message #214619] |
Tue, 16 July 2013 19:56 |
jayrabe
Messages: 509
Registered: June 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Need to get out of town by next Wednesday. Don't have time to order & receive a replacement, plus go through the learning curve of installing it, and still get packed. Hopefully a quick adjustment will get me on the road. I can defer a permanent solution until later. Assuming I don't get stuck in the mountains of northern Idaho and Oregon...
Jay Rabe
76 PB
Portland, OR
> From: powerjon@chartermi.net
> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 16:09:39 -0400
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Ignition switch
>
> George,
> Why don't you replace the key assembly, they come with a new set of keys?
>
> JR Wright
> 78 Buskirk Stretch
> 75 Avion
> Michigan
>
> On Jul 16, 2013, at 1:19 PM, Jay Rabe <jayrabe@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Thanks Charles. I'll attempt that when I get back to the coach on Thursday. Thanks for the tips.
> >
> >
> > Jay Rabe
> >
> > 76 PB
> >
> > Portland, OR
> >
> >
> >> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> >> From: covered-wagon@comcast.net
> >> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 11:15:40 -0500
> >> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Ignition switch
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Sir: the ignition switch is on the lower steering column. There are 2 screws holding it and is adjustable. Loosen the screws and slide the switch up just a little and tighten screws.. The pic shows an updated column with the dimmer switch on the same screws. Yours will not have this switch.
> >> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/s-10-steering-wheel-caddy-conversion/p48874-ignition-switch.html
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> jayrabe wrote on Tue, 16 July 2013 11:42
> >>> I drive my PB once a week, and the last two weeks I've had trouble engaging the starter. Key turns fine, accessory power comes on, but starter won't engage without wiggling and multiple tries.
> >>> I remember seeing some threads about this in the past but couldn't find them, other than a description of how the key actuates a rod and the actual switch contacts are I think about half way down the column. I haven't had time yet to investigate, but the problem is that I'm planning a trip next week and need a quick fix.
> >>>
> >>> Any help mucho appreciated.
> >>>
> >>> Jay Rabe
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ignition switch [message #214675 is a reply to message #214619] |
Wed, 17 July 2013 02:02 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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Senior Member |
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| powerjon wrote on Tue, 16 July 2013 13:09 |
George,
Why don't you replace the key assembly, they come with a new set of keys?
|
Key works fine and steering still locks and unlocks. I have related the sad tale before but it is a good GMC is broken story.
I was at a Rancharia in California where they empty your holding tank _before_ they let you park. A huge pusher was behind me.
I was so proud to jump out and show the guy with gloves on how a macerator works. Jumped back in, turned the key and with a click it spun in my hand.
I got a sick feeling and tried to pull it out of park. No dice. Engine won't start and it is stuck in park. How do I get this rig out of the way?
I got under the dash (pusher waiting on that old GMC) I started pulling on the starting rod with a pair of pliers, Ruth handing me tools like a surgeon's nurse.
Every now and then I would pull in the shifter...hard. I am not a big guy, but I pulled.
I gave a real pull and twang a piece of pot metal rained down and the shifter moved.
I kept easing the starting rod up and the fans all started. A little further and they stopped. Almost there. I told Ruth to make sure it was back in park. Hunched it up a bit more and it cranked and started.
I got into the seat, hoping the steering was unlocked and drove to our site.
I shut it off with the pliers and went to the ragtime festival concert. The next morning I made a starter rod out of a coat hanger.
We tried to get all that nonsense apart once, met with frustrationand I just use the cleaning rod from a .22 rifle.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ignition switch [message #214714 is a reply to message #214675] |
Wed, 17 July 2013 12:46 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Let me point out that if you need to move / adjust the switch from it's original mounting point then something has worn. It is usually the key mechanism itself, but it could also be the rod or the switch. I had that a problem once about 8 years ago. Simply replacing the key mechanism in the parking lot of AutoZone took care of the issue.
I'm not saying not to adjust the switch to get it going, but I'm afraid that the problem will be back at some inopportune time in the future. So replace the worn part on your time rather than at the next failure.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Ignition switch [message #214736 is a reply to message #214599] |
Wed, 17 July 2013 16:00 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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My ignition switch story is a lot like George's, but with fewer witnesses. I had driven 1/2 way across the US (AZ to IL) and had backed up into my mom's back yard to empty my tanks (a freeze warning had me spooked). Got the tanks emptied, jumped in, turned the key and it felt "odd". Noticed right away that it was stuck in the START position... fortunately it was cold and the engine took a few extra seconds to fire off, so I just grabbed the ignition switch "ears" and twisted for all I was worth. Fortunately, it gave enough to shut off the starter, but now the engine was running, and I couldn't turn it off. Thinking through my options, I decided that the ignition tumbler assembly was already toast, so I just got a big honkin' pair of pliers and forced the issue (shearing off that potmetal stop that's supposed to keep someone from stealing a vehicle... hah!). The next day I picked up a new tumbler and key set from NAPA for $17 and dropped it in (took an hour or so).
Fortunately there has never been any issue with the electrical portion of the switch - only the tumbler...
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: Ignition switch [message #214743 is a reply to message #214599] |
Wed, 17 July 2013 16:34 |
chasingsummer
Messages: 434
Registered: May 2011
Location: asheboro, nc
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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So, is this a part that all of us need to inspect because it is going to brake for all of us? Or is this a part where a few unlucky ones have had trouble?
thanks bgk
brian
asheboro, nc
75 eleganza, 74 build
119k miles and counting,
DOG HOUSE
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| Re: Ignition switch [message #214745 is a reply to message #214743] |
Wed, 17 July 2013 16:51 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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Senior Member |
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| chasingsummer wrote on Wed, 17 July 2013 14:34 |
So, is this a part that all of us need to inspect because it is going to brake for all of us? Or is this a part where a few unlucky ones have had trouble?
thanks bgk
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You can look at one at Autozone or O'Reily's. They are cheap, flimsy, little pot metal things you wouldn't buy for a kid you didn't like and they control the whole starting system for Lots of GM vehicles... And other than locking steering you can start any one of them with the simplest of tools.
The real trouble is that the steering column is a nightmare to get apart. I have seen the smart guys struggling with one at a tech session.
It is as if GM said, design an overly complicated device and put as flimsy as possible parts in it.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: Ignition switch [message #216646 is a reply to message #214599] |
Fri, 02 August 2013 11:24 |
jayrabe
Messages: 509
Registered: June 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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ignition switch continuing saga:
Embarked on my ~ 2000mi round trip without resolving the intermittent ignition switch. I did look at the manual, but was totally overwhelmed by the instructions for removal/replacement. Plus, C. Boyd's description and pictures of the adjustment didn't seem to match what I have, so I didn't attempt that either.
However, sometimes the slimmest of glimmers of aha are sufficient. The description of the fact that the key only pulls on a rod that actuates the switch mounted down on the column was the relevant piece for me. When I was doing my troubleshooting, trying to figure out how to replace the key and/or switch, I found the rod, running on the outside of the column into the switch box. Then the real aha was that, at those times that the starter would refuse to engage, if I reached down and just did almost as little as touching the rod, it would flex enough to pull up slightly more and the switch contacts would make and I'd be on the road. Worked every time.
Now that I'm back of course it's on my list of must-fix, but thanks to all for the invaluable tip that kept my trip successful.
Jay Rabe
76 PB
Portland, OR
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