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| never a dull saturday [message #214268] |
Sat, 13 July 2013 21:03  |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769
Registered: February 2013
Location: Columbia, SC
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Block did not make it back from the machine shop. So, full of ambition from my visit to the Coop, I decided to swap out my seat bases for offset late model ones. However removing the stock base provided a little surprise.
New GMC Shopping rule:
If the side ashtray is rusted out, the floor under the window probably looks like this:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/mechanical/p49922-photo11.html
One of the POs was gracious enough to "repair" the leak by pouring epoxy on the rotted wood...It was mush all around the epoxy.
So in case anyone is wondering what the aluminum framing looks like under the floor:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showfull.php?photo=49919
and the detail on the routed deck:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showfull.php?photo=49921
It looks as if one could build up the deck by using 2 layers of 1/4" and a center layer of 1/2" plywood glued together, if one was not handy with a router. I may have to try this.
Not having any luck finding marine plywood, not that it helped the original stuff, so I will have to waterproof some regular plywood.
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
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| Re: [GMCnet] never a dull saturday [message #214270 is a reply to message #214268] |
Sat, 13 July 2013 21:19  |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Joe,
You don;t really need marine plywood. Just get some treated plywood at Lowes or Home Depot.
JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion
Michigan
On Jul 13, 2013, at 10:03 PM, Joe Weir <joeweir@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Block did not make it back from the machine shop. So, full of ambition from my visit to the Coop, I decided to swap out my seat bases for offset late model ones. However removing the stock base provided a little surprise.
>
> New GMC Shopping rule:
>
> If the side ashtray is rusted out, the floor under the window probably looks like this:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/mechanical/p49922-photo11.html
>
> One of the POs was gracious enough to "repair" the leak by pouring epoxy on the rotted wood...It was mush all around the epoxy.
>
> So in case anyone is wondering what the aluminum framing looks like under the floor:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showfull.php?photo=49919
>
> and the detail on the routed deck:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showfull.php?photo=49921
>
> It looks as if one could build up the deck by using 2 layers of 1/4" and a center layer of 1/2" plywood glued together, if one was not handy with a router. I may have to try this.
>
> Not having any luck finding marine plywood, not that it helped the original stuff, so I will have to waterproof some regular plywood.
> --
> 76 Birchaven
> Columbia, SC.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] never a dull saturday [message #214271 is a reply to message #214268] |
Sat, 13 July 2013 21:23 |
Ronald Pottol
Messages: 505
Registered: September 2012
Location: Redwood City, California
Karma: -2
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Senior Member |
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Do note that if you do get marine grade, you probably want to get Lloyd's
certified. Otherwise, they are just claiming it meets the spec. You can
order it, something like $100 for a 4x8 sheet.
On Jul 13, 2013 7:03 PM, "Joe Weir" <joeweir@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Block did not make it back from the machine shop. So, full of ambition
> from my visit to the Coop, I decided to swap out my seat bases for offset
> late model ones. However removing the stock base provided a little
> surprise.
>
> New GMC Shopping rule:
>
> If the side ashtray is rusted out, the floor under the window probably
> looks like this:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/mechanical/p49922-photo11.html
>
> One of the POs was gracious enough to "repair" the leak by pouring epoxy
> on the rotted wood...It was mush all around the epoxy.
>
> So in case anyone is wondering what the aluminum framing looks like under
> the floor:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showfull.php?photo=49919
>
> and the detail on the routed deck:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showfull.php?photo=49921
>
> It looks as if one could build up the deck by using 2 layers of 1/4" and a
> center layer of 1/2" plywood glued together, if one was not handy with a
> router. I may have to try this.
>
> Not having any luck finding marine plywood, not that it helped the
> original stuff, so I will have to waterproof some regular plywood.
> --
> 76 Birchaven
> Columbia, SC.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
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1973 26' GM outfitted
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| Re: never a dull saturday [message #214273 is a reply to message #214268] |
Sat, 13 July 2013 21:59 |
xplorid
Messages: 213
Registered: February 2012
Location: Boise
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I did my cockpit floor this spring using 1/2 in (mg) plywood fitted into each framed section, then a single piece of 1/4 over the framing, with some dynamat in between and second skin damplifier over the 1/4. Easier than routing, more serviceable in the future, and really killed both floor noise and heat.
1974/94 GMCII by Explorer
Manny 6.5 TD Al radiator
1 ton front 4 bags back
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| Re: never a dull saturday [message #214276 is a reply to message #214268] |
Sat, 13 July 2013 23:39 |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I also made the new floor by using two pieces of plywood glued together. In addition, I got some West System Epoxy to put down on the plywood before mounting the seats and carpeting.
I figured that the epoxy would help when leaks do occur (as they always seem to at some time or another!
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: never a dull saturday [message #214278 is a reply to message #214268] |
Sun, 14 July 2013 00:56 |
George B.
Messages: 213
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Thank you for showing your project. I have a feeling that I will run into the same thing soon when I pull up the carpet.
George Butts
Las Vegas Nevada
73 "Custom 26' Q" & 76 23' Birchaven
71 Honda 600 Coupe & 01 Tracker Toads
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| Re: never a dull saturday [message #214279 is a reply to message #214268] |
Sun, 14 July 2013 01:17 |
George B.
Messages: 213
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Since my floor may be pulled up, would there be any benefit to put down some metal panel (as in a floor firewall)for the bottom layer exposed to engine heat? Or, what about ceramic paint on the underside.
Also I read somewhere about a coating used in boat engine compartments to absorb heat, vibrations and noise, anyone remember what that product is?
George Butts
Las Vegas Nevada
73 "Custom 26' Q" & 76 23' Birchaven
71 Honda 600 Coupe & 01 Tracker Toads
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| Re: [GMCnet] never a dull saturday [message #214303 is a reply to message #214298] |
Sun, 14 July 2013 09:52 |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769
Registered: February 2013
Location: Columbia, SC
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Thanks for all the responses and advice. I will be using it all to put it back together. After looking at how much room there is to reach suspension components and the side of the engine, I may want to bolt this floor in so it is removable, instead of rivet it in.
One thing I was fortunate enough to have was the previous repair. I say fortunate because it illustrated where the issue impacts the plywood.
A lot of folks think that the carpet becomes wet and then soaks the floor. In my case, the carpet was fairly dry, and the top layer of wood looked sound. The wood was rotted from underneath. It appears the water ran down the wall and gathered at the side wal l ledge, where it pooled in the gap and soaked the plywood from the side. It was a black decomposed mess.
YMMV, but I doubt you can go wrong by coating all sides of the plywood with your favorite waterproofing material, edges especially.
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
[Updated on: Sun, 14 July 2013 09:53] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] never a dull saturday [message #214322 is a reply to message #214303] |
Sun, 14 July 2013 13:05 |
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Richard RV
Messages: 631
Registered: July 2012
Location: Full-timer for 12 years, ...
Karma: -17
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| Joe Weir wrote on Sun, 14 July 2013 07:52 |
Thanks for all the responses and advice. I will be using it all to put it back together. After looking at how much room there is to reach suspension components and the side of the engine, I may want to bolt this floor in so it is removable, instead of rivet it in.
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That's an interesting idea, Joe, but would it be worth it to have to remove the carpet seat, pedestal, floor, to get to the things that you can get to just about as easily by removing the wheel and liner? In general I'm a fan of disassembly potential, but I can't see myself actually taking all of that apart for engine access.
| Quote: |
One thing I was fortunate enough to have was the previous repair. I say fortunate because it illustrated where the issue impacts the plywood.
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You found a silver lining! 
| Quote: |
A lot of folks think that the carpet becomes wet and then soaks the floor. In my case, the carpet was fairly dry, and the top layer of wood looked sound. The wood was rotted from underneath. It appears the water ran down the wall and gathered at the side wal l ledge, where it pooled in the gap and soaked the plywood from the side. It was a black decomposed mess.
YMMV, but I doubt you can go wrong by coating all sides of the plywood with your favorite waterproofing material, edges especially.
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Wood is a thirsty little bugger and continues to try to quench its thirst look after it has become a raw material. It doesn't know it's dead! The capillary action wicking up water through the end grain is invariably how wood rots. Get a piece of red oak and use a sharp CMS blade to cut a small piece a couple or three inches long, stick one end in a glass of water and blow through the other end - you'll be blowing bubbles. Red oak is at the extreme end of end grain porosity, which is one of the reasons it is such a poor choice for exposure to the weather or water, but all wood sucks...water.
Richard
'77 Birchaven TZE...777;
'76 Palm Beach under construction;
‘76 Edgemont waiting its turn
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| Re: [GMCnet] never a dull saturday [message #214338 is a reply to message #214322] |
Sun, 14 July 2013 17:00 |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769
Registered: February 2013
Location: Columbia, SC
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| Richard V. wrote on Sun, 14 July 2013 13:05 |
| Joe Weir wrote on Sun, 14 July 2013 07:52 |
Thanks for all the responses and advice. I will be using it all to put it back together. After looking at how much room there is to reach suspension components and the side of the engine, I may want to bolt this floor in so it is removable, instead of rivet it in.
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That's an interesting idea, Joe, but would it be worth it to have to remove the carpet seat, pedestal, floor, to get to the things that you can get to just about as easily by removing the wheel and liner?
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In a rational world, no. But we are talking GMCs here...;^p
If I plan to keep it a long time, it would not be inconceivable that such access, at some point, would be useful.
Also, I do not own a rivet tool...so there is that.
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
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| Re: [GMCnet] never a dull saturday [message #214356 is a reply to message #214338] |
Sun, 14 July 2013 19:35 |
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Richard RV
Messages: 631
Registered: July 2012
Location: Full-timer for 12 years, ...
Karma: -17
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Senior Member |
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I wouldn't rivet the plywood in place if I were replacing it either. Bolting preserves an option. That being said...
Rivet tools are very useful - if your wife is reading this they are absolutely indispensable! There are places where I don't want a bolt and don't want to use a screw. Rivets are a great low-profile option and they make more types than you can shake a stick at.
Richard
'77 Birchaven TZE...777;
'76 Palm Beach under construction;
‘76 Edgemont waiting its turn
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| Re: [GMCnet] never a dull saturday [message #214359 is a reply to message #214356] |
Sun, 14 July 2013 20:11 |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769
Registered: February 2013
Location: Columbia, SC
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Now I just need to glue them together and waterproof them:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6394/halfinch.jpg
The only thing better than free plywood, is free plywood with cool stenciling...
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6394/photo-11.jpg
...a fringe benefit of work.
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
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| Re: [GMCnet] never a dull saturday [message #214361 is a reply to message #214356] |
Sun, 14 July 2013 20:23 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Rivets won't vibrate loose like a short sheet metal screw will. The head is much lower profile than any screw with the same head surface area which makes it ideal for hiding under carpet and they are cheap and light. The rivets also only penetrate one side of the extruded floor framing reducing possible water entry points. Nut and bolt fasteners will guarantee the need for two people when removing the floor later.
The sealant I used between my cockpit floor and the framing will complicate floor removal more than the fasteners.
Jwit, jwid
Todd Sullivan
Sully
77 royale
Seattle
On Jul 14, 2013, at 5:35 PM, Richard <GMC77Birchaven@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> I wouldn't rivet the plywood in place if I were replacing it either. Bolting preserves an option. That being said...
>
> Rivet tools are very useful - if your wife is reading this they are absolutely indispensable! There are places where I don't want a bolt and don't want to use a screw. Rivets are a great low-profile option and they make more types than you can shake a stick at.
>
> Richard
> --
> '77 Birchaven TZE...777
> Rear bath, interior pretty much original,
> Jasper 455, 3.50 final, Howell EFI w/EBL, Springfield, Thorley, 6 disks, Alcoas, currently installing a one ton front end
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] never a dull saturday [message #214363 is a reply to message #214361] |
Sun, 14 July 2013 20:33 |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769
Registered: February 2013
Location: Columbia, SC
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Well, its not like the rivets were hard to drill out or anything...
I had more trouble with the 4 screws near the step, only because I did not know they were there. Of course, with the plywood like mush, they didn't hold up removing it for long.
As was said earlier, a rivet tool is indispensable. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. 
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
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