Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Plus or Super Gas ?
| Plus or Super Gas ? [message #213825] |
Tue, 09 July 2013 16:42  |
LYNN L
Messages: 140
Registered: March 2005
Location: Pearland TX.
Karma: 0
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I have been using premium gas to run my 500ci Cadillac motor for 10 years because premium gas nowdays is equal to less than 90 octane. The caddie is rated at 8.5 to 1 and I'm wondering if I could use the plus rated gas with 10% corn alky and run without pinging.
what do you other cadillac motor owners use?
Lynn SR.
Lynn L
76 Eleganza Cad.500
Pearland TX.
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| Re: Plus or Super Gas ? [message #213830 is a reply to message #213825] |
Tue, 09 July 2013 17:54  |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Sir: JWID.. High test in everstuff. lawn mowers, weed eaters, scooters, coach. I list it under preventmantience. I consider it part of the price of ownership.
| LYNN L wrote on Tue, 09 July 2013 17:42 |
I have been using premium gas to run my 500ci Cadillac motor for 10 years because premium gas nowdays is equal to less than 90 octane. The caddie is rated at 8.5 to 1 and I'm wondering if I could use the plus rated gas with 10% corn alky and run without pinging.
what do you other cadillac motor owners use?
Lynn SR.
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C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: Plus or Super Gas ? [message #213841 is a reply to message #213825] |
Tue, 09 July 2013 19:57 |
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SeanKidd
Messages: 747
Registered: June 2012
Location: Northern Neck Virginia
Karma: 4
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Every since I attended a champion spark plug seminar in 1985 I've run premium fuel. The presenter put a few drops of premium fuel 91 octane in a 3"x36" acrylic tube with one end plugged. He then ignited the vapor at the end and the flame created a perfect disc and traveled to the end and extinguished. He then added a few drops of low grade 87 octane and ignited it, the flame disc formed, began to travel down the tube, about half way, the flame distorted, hugged one wall to the end of the tube and began to travel up the tube toward the opposite approaching flame, when they met...BOOM! A puff of spoke blasted out the end. This demonstrated what a ping is in your cylinder. The few dollars more per tank is my peace of mind.
Sean and Stephanie
73 Ex-CanyonLands 26' #317 "Oliver"
Hubler 1-Ton, Quad-Bags, Rear Disc, Reaction Arms, P.Huber TBs, 3.70:1 LSD Honda 6500 inverter gen.
Colonial Travelers
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| Re: Plus or Super Gas ? [message #213842 is a reply to message #213825] |
Tue, 09 July 2013 21:03 |
Cadillackeeper
Messages: 464
Registered: October 2012
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Karma: 1
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That late model Cad should have no trouble on regular.My Cad is 10-1 and yes I need premium 93.I can sometimes run 89/90 mix depending on the temperature.The biggest problem you must have is your vacuum advance can is advancing too far.I run regular in the coach as it also is late model 8-1.All fuel sucks today so timing is key.
Trust me I know as I still run points in the Cad and it will ping like nothing one has ever heard if not perfect.
77 455 Elaganza II and 67 Animal, Built 500 Powered Eldo
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| Re: Plus or Super Gas ? [message #213851 is a reply to message #213825] |
Tue, 09 July 2013 22:25 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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| LYNN L wrote on Tue, 09 July 2013 14:42 |
I have been using premium gas to run my 500ci Cadillac motor for 10 years because premium gas nowdays is equal to less than 90 octane. The caddie is rated at 8.5 to 1 and I'm wondering if I could use the plus rated gas with 10% corn alky and run without pinging.
what do you other cadillac motor owners use?
Lynn SR.
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I have a pretty generic 455 with fuel injection and spark control but even before, I ran and run the cheapest stuff I can find. It does not ping often and if it really starts rattling I back off and shift down. When East of the rockies I see 85 Octane and use that. I have noticed no difference. As far as ethanol; we have had nothing but ethanol for 15 years in CA and I have used it with Quadrajets and EFI. You are right, ethanol raises the octane level.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: [GMCnet] Plus or Super Gas ? [message #213861 is a reply to message #213825] |
Wed, 10 July 2013 07:15 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Lynn,
Actually, you degrade the performance by running higher octane fuel in the
engine than what it is designed for. HIgher octane fuels are used to RESIST
detonation. The higher the number the greater the ability to avoid
explosion. High grade fuel is only needed in high compression vehicles,
like a turbo or super-charged vehicle.
If you have been running premium in an older low compression engine, only
about 75% of that fuel is burnt. The rest is being blown out of your tail
pipe. You are wasting a lot of money and realizing zero gains. Often,
plug fouling becomes an issue when burning high octane in a motor designed
for lower octane fuel.
Steve F.
On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 2:42 PM, LYNN LAYCOCK <lynn_sr@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
> I have been using premium gas to run my 500ci Cadillac motor for 10 years
> because premium gas nowdays is equal to less than 90 octane. The caddie is
> rated at 8.5 to 1 and I'm wondering if I could use the plus rated gas with
> 10% corn alky and run without pinging.
> what do you other cadillac motor owners use?
> Lynn SR.
> --
> Lynn L
> 76 Eleganza Cad.500
> Pearland TX.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Take care,
Steve
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| Re: [GMCnet] Plus or Super Gas ? [message #213865 is a reply to message #213861] |
Wed, 10 July 2013 07:36 |
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SeanKidd
Messages: 747
Registered: June 2012
Location: Northern Neck Virginia
Karma: 4
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And, something else to consider: Six automakers, BMW, General Motors, Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen and Audi, believe using Top Tier Gasoline that contains a higher-percentage of detergent additive from that required by the EPA standard, provides optimal engine performance. They claim that lower concentrations of detergent additive lowers the quality of gasoline and can leave deposits on engine parts, such as fuel injectors and intake valves, which can lower engine performance, vehicle responsiveness and increase emissions. BMW, General Motors, Honda and Toyota developed the Top Tier standards under which gas retailers must meet in order to qualify as a Top Tier gasoline retailer.
Here is a list of retailers that qualify under the standards:
76 Petro-Canada
Aloha Petroleum Phillips 66
Chevron QuikTrip
Chevron Canada Rebel Oil
Conoco Road Ranger
CountryMark Severson Oil
Entec Stations Shell
Esso Shell Canada
Exxon Sunoco Canada
Kwik Trip / Kwik Star Texaco
MFA Oil Co. The Somerset Refinery, Inc.
Mileage Stations Tri-Par Oil Co.
Mobil Turkey Hill Minit Markets
U.S. Oil - See more at: http://blog.truecar.com/2011/03/03/premium-vs-regular-gas/#sthash.7H7JT5KR.dpuf
Sean and Stephanie
73 Ex-CanyonLands 26' #317 "Oliver"
Hubler 1-Ton, Quad-Bags, Rear Disc, Reaction Arms, P.Huber TBs, 3.70:1 LSD Honda 6500 inverter gen.
Colonial Travelers
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| Re: Plus or Super Gas ? [message #213869 is a reply to message #213851] |
Wed, 10 July 2013 08:21 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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Sir: RANT ON.. My opinion only..
I don`t understand.. I highly respect your opinions and your achievements in the GMC community. I am sure your coach engine has the finest FI set up and add ons money can buy along with oil, ZDDP additive, exhaust and intake systems. You say you do have occasional spark KNOCK and if it really starts rattling you can change the timing on the fly. This, IMO, is a parch for a problem that you have created by running cheep fuel. Any spark KNOCK is damaging your engines wrist pins, rod & main bearings, timing chain & specially rings by putting undue stress on the piston. In HS my bud Carl would get the family 57 ford 272, 2bbl than ran good since his dad was a Ford mechanic. It would run better to the point of barking the tires when the auto would shift from 1st to 2nd only if we put Hi-test gas in it. My lawn mower will backfire when shutting off if I run the CHEEP fuel. I used my pressure washer for the first time this year yesterday and with no additives in last years fuel it fired right up. I feel in my Harley that a Split fire (double electrode) or the E (triple electrode) spark plugs do create better fuel burn and I can tell a difference in the 2 cyl engine while idling, starting and under acceleration and would help to prevent the Spark Knock If I had it. I feel I am as CHEEEP as anybody here but I am getting to the age that that I do not want to create a problem that will cost me an engine later. I know the fuel we are getting today is not our grandaddys fuel and we are lucky if the no alcohol hi-test is equal to yesterdays reg. All the more reason to run the best fuel I can find. Its kinda like going to the gym to strengthen your body and build endurance then stopping at the greasy spoon to pig out on the way home.
RANT OFF
[quote title=George Beckman wrote on Tue, 09 July 2013 23:25
I have a pretty generic 455 with fuel injection and spark control but even before, I ran and run the cheapest stuff I can find. It does not ping often and if it really starts rattling I back off and shift down. When East of the rockies I see 85 Octane and use that. I have noticed no difference. As far as ethanol; we have had nothing but ethanol for 15 years in CA and I have used it with Quadrajets and EFI. You are right, ethanol raises the octane level.[/quote]
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: Plus or Super Gas ? [message #213878 is a reply to message #213841] |
Wed, 10 July 2013 09:34 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| SeanKidd wrote on Tue, 09 July 2013 20:57 |
Every since I attended a champion spark plug seminar in 1985 I've run premium fuel. The presenter put a few drops of premium fuel 91 octane in a 3"x36" acrylic tube with one end plugged. He then ignited the vapor at the end and the flame created a perfect disc and traveled to the end and extinguished. He then added a few drops of low grade 87 octane and ignited it, the flame disc formed, began to travel down the tube, about half way, the flame distorted, hugged one wall to the end of the tube and began to travel up the tube toward the opposite approaching flame, when they met...BOOM! A puff of spoke blasted out the end. This demonstrated what a ping is in your cylinder. The few dollars more per tank is my peace of mind.
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Sean,
Remember, in 1985 alcohol in motorfuel was still rare. Motorfuel qualities were not nearly as closely controlled as they are now.
What you saw was a loaded demonstration. Neither of the two fuels were likely to have been "pump" fuel. What he demonstrated was "End Gas Detonation" and I bet that they worked real hard with a fuel supplier to get there. It is typically better for everybody but you if you run a premium fuel. The fact is that what is sold as pump motorfuel is just a reflection of standard. The real difference is what they leave out of the "Premium" grade fuel. It is kind of like the difference between kosher and low grade hot dogs.
If the engine runs well on it and does not "ping" that is all you need. I don't doubt for a moment that Chuck gets better performance with his engines on premium. He tunes them that way and gets the benefit. I bet his cigaret lighter burns cleaner than most, but that is Chuck... May people would take pride in what he would turn away as junk.
Truth be told, unless you buy the fuel at a refinery, you are probably not getting the fuel from that manufacturer's refinery. Gasoline is almost all transported by pipelines. The pipelines are owned by a pipeline company and when the refiner puts 100kgal into the system, he will be delivered 100Kgal(+/-) of the same specification at the terminal. There is no promise that it is the same fuel or even from the same refinery. Over the road tankers are just as independent. If the tanker did not come from the refinery, it is anybody's guess where that fuel was refined. But the EPA says it better be within the specification.
I have one street car that gets 10% better mileage on premium (it does have a knock sensor). As long as premium is less than 10% more than regular, that is what she gets.
If it runs on regular and does not complain about it, run regular. Don't buy the extra detergents and "Nitrogenized" or what all stuff. Lots of times a retailer does not even know where the tanker that just arrived loaded.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Plus or Super Gas ? [message #213918 is a reply to message #213825] |
Wed, 10 July 2013 12:15 |
LYNN L
Messages: 140
Registered: March 2005
Location: Pearland TX.
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Thats why I read this board everyday.There is never a shortage of knowledge or good ideas to go around. Even if we don't all agree there is always something to be learned. I'm gonna try some plus and if she doesn't complain that might become a permanent diet. I always add fuel preservitive at each fill up and hope some reaches each tank.
Thanks for all the input. Lynn
Lynn L
76 Eleganza Cad.500
Pearland TX.
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| Re: Plus or Super Gas ? [message #213967 is a reply to message #213878] |
Wed, 10 July 2013 20:07 |
Jim Galbavy
Messages: 1443
Registered: August 2007
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Matt,
Any more, 90% of your mogas starts off at the distributor as the same basic blend. When the tanker truck pulls up to be filled for delivery, that retailer's custom blend is then added to the fuel going into the tanker and gets mixed on the way to delivery. I got this info from my next door neighbor who drove a tanker in Virginia.
jim galbavy
'73 x-CL ANNIE
Lake Mary, FL
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