Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Built like an airplane?
| [GMCnet] Built like an airplane? [message #213498] |
Sat, 06 July 2013 16:12  |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Currently I'm consumed with images of the Boeing 777 wreckage at SFO. If it's true that only 2 people died in this tragedy then it's a testament to engineering, constant refinement, and crew training.
The construction of our coaches has been likened to that of aircraft. Perhaps that's why so many remain and may be a factor in our love of these old girls. Great engineering stopped at construction. It's up to us to constantly maintain and improve the rigs if we are to enjoy them for many years.
Still I need to learn from this. The recent engine fire shows that things happen. Jim B has an important safety upgrade that must now be first on my list. It could save my family. Next I need to adjust my driving style so that I can stop safely with whatever brakes I have.
Our best wishes to all those who are effected by this.
Larry Davick
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] Built like an airplane? [message #213520 is a reply to message #213498] |
Sat, 06 July 2013 19:28  |
Luvn737s
Messages: 1106
Registered: June 2007
Karma: 2
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The aft baggage compartment of one of the airliners I formerly flew had a little window (but in the GMC you would want it made out of oven glass and sealed well to keep out stray CO) and a port to stick a fire extinguisher in and flood the compartment. A similar design might be drawn up for the GMC. Again the port should be sealed to allow only one way access for an extinguisher and not allow stray CO to enter the cockpit.
Too early to tell on the SFO 777, but eerily similar to BA's 777 loss at Heathrow a few years back.
Randy
1973 26' Painted Desert
Ahwatukee (Phoenix) AZ
[Updated on: Sat, 06 July 2013 19:28] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Built like an airplane? [message #213543 is a reply to message #213498] |
Sat, 06 July 2013 20:35 |
Luvn737s
Messages: 1106
Registered: June 2007
Karma: 2
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To those who have the Fire Suppressant systems, do you think that the airflow through the engine compartment at cruise speed is enough to disperse the agent too much? Should the coach be stopped before trying to fight the fire?
Randy
1973 26' Painted Desert
Ahwatukee (Phoenix) AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Built like an airplane? [message #213584 is a reply to message #213524] |
Sun, 07 July 2013 09:56 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Michael,
From what I've seen and heard on the news is that crash will probably be chalked up as pilot error, he came in too damn low!
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Schultz
As I have stated before, on top of Jim B. fire suppression automatic engine and hand held 2 lb. all foam extinguishers, I have
carbon monoxide and smoke detectors. I installed a high temp thermometer in the floor just forward and right of the drivers seat. I
always know from a glance what the running down the road and sitting still temp is in the engine compartment. Also a great indicator
of when things are getting into the vapor lock temperature range. Mine is a recycled boiler stat but thermostats that go on your
grill would also work.
From the pictures, the plane crash was indeed a testament to engineers and crew and safety procedures. Of course our best to those
who lost loved ones and those injured.
Michael
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Built like an airplane? [message #213586 is a reply to message #213498] |
Sun, 07 July 2013 10:01 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Larry,
You are correct the GMC body is made like an aircraft, you have frames that run perpendicular to the fore aft axis, longerons that
run the full length, and stringers in between frames.
The skin is bonded to the frames, longerons, and stringers which is how aircraft are built now a days.
The best thing to do is to review the document we put together regarding steps you can do to PREVENT a fire which is on the GMCES
website.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Davick
Currently I'm consumed with images of the Boeing 777 wreckage at SFO. If it's true that only 2 people died in this tragedy then it's
a testament to engineering, constant refinement, and crew training.
The construction of our coaches has been likened to that of aircraft. Perhaps that's why so many remain and may be a factor in our
love of these old girls. Great engineering stopped at construction. It's up to us to constantly maintain and improve the rigs if we
are to enjoy them for many years.
Still I need to learn from this. The recent engine fire shows that things happen. Jim B has an important safety upgrade that must
now be first on my list. It could save my family. Next I need to adjust my driving style so that I can stop safely with whatever
brakes I have.
Our best wishes to all those who are effected by this.
Larry Davick
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Built like an airplane? [message #213599 is a reply to message #213584] |
Sun, 07 July 2013 10:56 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Pilot should NOT need glide slope signal to land in CAVU!
Mac in OKC
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 7, 2013, at 9:56, "Rob Mueller" <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
Michael,
From what I've seen and heard on the news is that crash will probably be chalked up as pilot error, he came in too damn low!
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Schultz
As I have stated before, on top of Jim B. fire suppression automatic engine and hand held 2 lb. all foam extinguishers, I have
carbon monoxide and smoke detectors. I installed a high temp thermometer in the floor just forward and right of the drivers seat. I
always know from a glance what the running down the road and sitting still temp is in the engine compartment. Also a great indicator
of when things are getting into the vapor lock temperature range. Mine is a recycled boiler stat but thermostats that go on your
grill would also work.
From the pictures, the plane crash was indeed a testament to engineers and crew and safety procedures. Of course our best to those
who lost loved ones and those injured.
Michael
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| Re: [GMCnet] Built like an airplane? [message #213609 is a reply to message #213586] |
Sun, 07 July 2013 12:37 |
bryant374
Messages: 563
Registered: May 2004
Location: Pleasant Valley, NY 12569
Karma: 1
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>
>
You are correct the GMC body is made like an aircraft, you have frames that run perpendicular to the fore aft axis, longerons that run the full length, and stringers in between frames.
The skin is bonded to the frames, longerons, and stringers which is how aircraft are built now a days.
>
>
>
History (again, sorry)
The Engineer who had responsibility for the GMC body structure was John Locklin, his background was aeronautical engineering. He told me that during WWII he designed/built gliders and his background did influence his design ideas for the GMC body structure.
Bill Bryant
PO 1976~PB (owned 34 years)
1914 Ford (owned 70 years)
1965 Corvette (owned 39 years)
GMC Motorhome History
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| Re: [GMCnet] Built like an airplane? [message #213616 is a reply to message #213599] |
Sun, 07 July 2013 13:38 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Did not our friends in the FAA madnate their use for jet aircraft - or at least require you to file the trip as ifr?
===johnny
From: D C _Mac_ Macdonald <k2gkk@hotmail.com>
To: "gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org" <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 7, 2013 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Built like an airplane?
Pilot should NOT need glide slope signal to land in CAVU!
Mac in OKC
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 7, 2013, at 9:56, "Rob Mueller" <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
Michael,
From what I've seen and heard on the news is that crash will probably be chalked up as pilot error, he came in too damn low!
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Schultz
As I have stated before, on top of Jim B. fire suppression automatic engine and hand held 2 lb. all foam extinguishers, I have
carbon monoxide and smoke detectors. I installed a high temp thermometer in the floor just forward and right of the drivers seat. I
always know from a glance what the running down the road and sitting still temp is in the engine compartment. Also a great indicator
of when things are getting into the vapor lock temperature range. Mine is a recycled boiler stat but thermostats that go on your
grill would also work.
From the pictures, the plane crash was indeed a testament to engineers and crew and safety procedures. Of course our best to those
who lost loved ones and those injured.
Michael
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Built like an airplane? [message #213619 is a reply to message #213616] |
Sun, 07 July 2013 14:18 |
Guy Lopes
Messages: 499
Registered: April 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Airlines file IFR as a rule, non-airline jets aren't required to fly IFR and
may fly VFR virtually anywhere below 18,000 ft. For airline ops it's rare
that a glideslope signal is actually required for a given runway or
approach, but most have it. Most runways served by airlines also have a VASI
or PAPI near the approach end of the runway. These are lights that provide a
visual indication as to where the aircraft is in relation to the 3 degree
(normal) glidepath. Though these lights aren't even required in most cases.
Most modern airliners have other means to indicate glidepath deviation as
well. Usually RNAV based (GPS, inertial, etc.). To back all of that up is
the ol' Mark 3 human eyeball and judgement.
Guy Lopes
76 Birchaven "Orion"
Sacramento, CA
www.GMC-Guy.com
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Johnny Bridges
Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 11:38 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Built like an airplane?
Did not our friends in the FAA madnate their use for jet aircraft - or at
least require you to file the trip as ifr?
===johnny
From: D C _Mac_ Macdonald <k2gkk@hotmail.com>
To: "gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org" <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 7, 2013 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Built like an airplane?
Pilot should NOT need glide slope signal to land in CAVU!
Mac in OKC
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 7, 2013, at 9:56, "Rob Mueller" <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
Michael,
From what I've seen and heard on the news is that crash will probably be
chalked up as pilot error, he came in too damn low!
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Schultz
As I have stated before, on top of Jim B. fire suppression automatic engine
and hand held 2 lb. all foam extinguishers, I have
carbon monoxide and smoke detectors. I installed a high temp thermometer in
the floor just forward and right of the drivers seat. I
always know from a glance what the running down the road and sitting still
temp is in the engine compartment. Also a great indicator
of when things are getting into the vapor lock temperature range. Mine is a
recycled boiler stat but thermostats that go on your
grill would also work.
From the pictures, the plane crash was indeed a testament to engineers and
crew and safety procedures. Of course our best to those
who lost loved ones and those injured.
Michael
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Guy Lopes
76 Birchaven "Orion"
Sacramento, CA
W6TOL
www.GMC-Guy.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Built like an airplane? [message #213621 is a reply to message #213616] |
Sun, 07 July 2013 14:29 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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I'm sure the equipment was in the aircraft, but it not something that "controls" the landing. AFAIK, the pilot still lands the big bird manually.
Mac in OKC
USAF & FAA (retired)
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 7, 2013, at 13:38, "Johnny Bridges" <jhbridges@ymail.com> wrote:
Did not our friends in the FAA madnate their use for jet aircraft - or at least require you to file the trip as ifr?
===johnny
From: D C _Mac_ Macdonald <k2gkk@hotmail.com>
To: "gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org" <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 7, 2013 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Built like an airplane?
Pilot should NOT need glide slope signal to land in CAVU!
Mac in OKC
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 7, 2013, at 9:56, "Rob Mueller" <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
Michael,
From what I've seen and heard on the news is that crash will probably be chalked up as pilot error, he came in too damn low!
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Schultz
As I have stated before, on top of Jim B. fire suppression automatic engine and hand held 2 lb. all foam extinguishers, I have
carbon monoxide and smoke detectors. I installed a high temp thermometer in the floor just forward and right of the drivers seat. I
always know from a glance what the running down the road and sitting still temp is in the engine compartment. Also a great indicator
of when things are getting into the vapor lock temperature range. Mine is a recycled boiler stat but thermostats that go on your
grill would also work.
From the pictures, the plane crash was indeed a testament to engineers and crew and safety procedures. Of course our best to those
who lost loved ones and those injured.
Michael
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| Re: [GMCnet] Built like an airplane? [message #213622 is a reply to message #213621] |
Sun, 07 July 2013 14:52 |
Guy Lopes
Messages: 499
Registered: April 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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I'm almost certain (but have never flown the 777 so could be wrong) that the
777 has autoland capability. But you're right Mac, it appears in this case
it was a manual landing. At the very least, the autoland system would have
nailed the localizer and been dead center on the runway centerline. The tail
appears to have hit well right of center. Just my take on this.
We'll all find out soon enough exactly what caused this unfortunate
accident.
<Monday morning quarterback mode off>
Guy Lopes
76 Birchaven "Orion"
Sacramento, CA
www.GMC-Guy.com
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of D C _Mac_ Macdonald
Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 12:30 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Built like an airplane?
I'm sure the equipment was in the aircraft, but it not something that
"controls" the landing. AFAIK, the pilot still lands the big bird manually.
Mac in OKC
USAF & FAA (retired)
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 7, 2013, at 13:38, "Johnny Bridges" <jhbridges@ymail.com> wrote:
Did not our friends in the FAA madnate their use for jet aircraft - or at
least require you to file the trip as ifr?
===johnny
From: D C _Mac_ Macdonald <k2gkk@hotmail.com>
To: "gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org" <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 7, 2013 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Built like an airplane?
Pilot should NOT need glide slope signal to land in CAVU!
Mac in OKC
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 7, 2013, at 9:56, "Rob Mueller" <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
Michael,
From what I've seen and heard on the news is that crash will probably be
chalked up as pilot error, he came in too damn low!
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Schultz
As I have stated before, on top of Jim B. fire suppression automatic engine
and hand held 2 lb. all foam extinguishers, I have
carbon monoxide and smoke detectors. I installed a high temp thermometer in
the floor just forward and right of the drivers seat. I
always know from a glance what the running down the road and sitting still
temp is in the engine compartment. Also a great indicator
of when things are getting into the vapor lock temperature range. Mine is a
recycled boiler stat but thermostats that go on your
grill would also work.
From the pictures, the plane crash was indeed a testament to engineers and
crew and safety procedures. Of course our best to those
who lost loved ones and those injured.
Michael
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Guy Lopes
76 Birchaven "Orion"
Sacramento, CA
W6TOL
www.GMC-Guy.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Built like an airplane? [message #213628 is a reply to message #213619] |
Sun, 07 July 2013 17:30 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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I'm aware. Commenting on Big Brother is all.
--johnny
From: Guy Lopes <tawptool@surewest.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Sunday, July 7, 2013 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Built like an airplane?
Airlines file IFR as a rule, non-airline jets aren't required to fly IFR and
may fly VFR virtually anywhere below 18,000 ft. For airline ops it's rare
that a glideslope signal is actually required for a given runway or
approach, but most have it. Most runways served by airlines also have a VASI
or PAPI near the approach end of the runway. These are lights that provide a
visual indication as to where the aircraft is in relation to the 3 degree
(normal) glidepath. Though these lights aren't even required in most cases.
Most modern airliners have other means to indicate glidepath deviation as
well. Usually RNAV based (GPS, inertial, etc.). To back all of that up is
the ol' Mark 3 human eyeball and judgement.
Guy Lopes
76 Birchaven "Orion"
Sacramento, CA
www.GMC-Guy.com
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Johnny Bridges
Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 11:38 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Built like an airplane?
Did not our friends in the FAA madnate their use for jet aircraft - or at
least require you to file the trip as ifr?
===johnny
From: D C _Mac_ Macdonald <k2gkk@hotmail.com>
To: "gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org" <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 7, 2013 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Built like an airplane?
Pilot should NOT need glide slope signal to land in CAVU!
Mac in OKC
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 7, 2013, at 9:56, "Rob Mueller" <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
Michael,
From what I've seen and heard on the news is that crash will probably be
chalked up as pilot error, he came in too damn low!
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Schultz
As I have stated before, on top of Jim B. fire suppression automatic engine
and hand held 2 lb. all foam extinguishers, I have
carbon monoxide and smoke detectors. I installed a high temp thermometer in
the floor just forward and right of the drivers seat. I
always know from a glance what the running down the road and sitting still
temp is in the engine compartment. Also a great indicator
of when things are getting into the vapor lock temperature range. Mine is a
recycled boiler stat but thermostats that go on your
grill would also work.
From the pictures, the plane crash was indeed a testament to engineers and
crew and safety procedures. Of course our best to those
who lost loved ones and those injured.
Michael
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
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http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Built like an airplane? [message #213629 is a reply to message #213622] |
Sun, 07 July 2013 17:38 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Well, the NTSB spokselady on the news says 7 seconds before it hit there's a voice calling for a speed increase, 4 seconds before it hit the stick shaker activated, and a second and a half before there was a call to go around. So at this point, it sounds as if they are going to sell it to the pilot. Given that it's very unlikely there would be an inexperienced driver in something that expensive, you have to wonder what distracted the flight crew. It will out eventually, however.
--johnny
From: Guy Lopes <tawptool@surewest.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Sunday, July 7, 2013 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Built like an airplane?
I'm almost certain (but have never flown the 777 so could be wrong) that the
777 has autoland capability. But you're right Mac, it appears in this case
it was a manual landing. At the very least, the autoland system would have
nailed the localizer and been dead center on the runway centerline. The tail
appears to have hit well right of center. Just my take on this.
We'll all find out soon enough exactly what caused this unfortunate
accident.
<Monday morning quarterback mode off>
Guy Lopes
76 Birchaven "Orion"
Sacramento, CA
www.GMC-Guy.com
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of D C _Mac_ Macdonald
Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 12:30 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Built like an airplane?
I'm sure the equipment was in the aircraft, but it not something that
"controls" the landing. AFAIK, the pilot still lands the big bird manually.
Mac in OKC
USAF & FAA (retired)
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 7, 2013, at 13:38, "Johnny Bridges" <jhbridges@ymail.com> wrote:
Did not our friends in the FAA madnate their use for jet aircraft - or at
least require you to file the trip as ifr?
===johnny
From: D C _Mac_ Macdonald <k2gkk@hotmail.com>
To: "gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org" <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 7, 2013 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Built like an airplane?
Pilot should NOT need glide slope signal to land in CAVU!
Mac in OKC
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 7, 2013, at 9:56, "Rob Mueller" <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
Michael,
From what I've seen and heard on the news is that crash will probably be
chalked up as pilot error, he came in too damn low!
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Schultz
As I have stated before, on top of Jim B. fire suppression automatic engine
and hand held 2 lb. all foam extinguishers, I have
carbon monoxide and smoke detectors. I installed a high temp thermometer in
the floor just forward and right of the drivers seat. I
always know from a glance what the running down the road and sitting still
temp is in the engine compartment. Also a great indicator
of when things are getting into the vapor lock temperature range. Mine is a
recycled boiler stat but thermostats that go on your
grill would also work.
From the pictures, the plane crash was indeed a testament to engineers and
crew and safety procedures. Of course our best to those
who lost loved ones and those injured.
Michael
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Built like an airplane? [message #213636 is a reply to message #213584] |
Sun, 07 July 2013 18:48 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Getting those jet jockeys to look out of the front window has always been a problem. Their high reliance on instrumentation has conditioned them not to look outside. This was a visual final approach over water (poor depth / height perception) and they actually had to look outside and see what was going on. By the time they realized that they were to low and slow (the engines were at idle), the turbines did not have time to spool back up to make power. Seven seconds prior to impact is a little late to realize you are too slow/low. The stall warning went off 3 seconds later. 4 seconds after that they hit the ground.
I wonder if they ever looked outside during the final approach.
I hate to see when they all to often try to blame the pilots, but this time I think it is justified.
<Monday morning quarter back mode off>
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Built like an airplane? [message #213671 is a reply to message #213636] |
Mon, 08 July 2013 07:39 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Two things come to mind:
1. Thurmon Munson Syndrome
2. First time I flew in Lakefront Nwrlins. Turn out over Ponchartrain on an overcast day, instant instruments... vote on which way is 'up'
--johnny
________________________________
From: Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Sunday, July 7, 2013 7:48 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Built like an airplane?
Getting those jet jockeys to look out of the front window has always been a problem. Their high reliance on instrumentation has conditioned them not to look outside. This was a visual final approach over water (poor depth / height perception) and they actually had to look outside and see what was going on. By the time they realized that they were to low and slow (the engines were at idle), the turbines did not have time to spool back up to make power. Seven seconds prior to impact is a little late to realize you are too slow/low. The stall warning went off 3 seconds later. 4 seconds after that they hit the ground.
I wonder if they ever looked outside during the final approach.
I hate to see when they all to often try to blame the pilots, but this time I think it is justified.
<Monday morning quarter back mode off>
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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