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| Onan Starter Solenoid [message #213348] |
Fri, 05 July 2013 11:51  |
DrPepper
Messages: 80
Registered: February 2013
Location: Goose Creek,SC
Karma: 0
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I have a intresting porblem while I am on vacation inf Fla. First real time out in the GMC, and just loving it.
My Genset does engage pin 9 with 12V+ when i press the starter switch. I know the board is ok, because I can put it on another genset and it works. So after alot of reading on gmcws.org/Tech/dsimmons/onan/onan.html I have a question.
When I press the start switch I don't have any voltage on Pin 10. I traced the wire to the right Bolt(Small). I tested for power there when the starter is running and have 0v.
Is that right?
I read the Doc, Pin 10 need 12v+ from the Solenoid to engerize ping 9. right?
PS: Anyone know if I can pick up a replacment Solenoid at Auto-Zone?
Phillip Udel - I Own a 1975 Avion
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| Re: Onan Starter Solenoid [message #213354 is a reply to message #213352] |
Fri, 05 July 2013 12:19  |
DrPepper
Messages: 80
Registered: February 2013
Location: Goose Creek,SC
Karma: 0
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Nevemind. answered my own question
found a picture of the k1 on AppliedGMC.
Does any know if I can pick up a replecment at auto-zone, since I am on the move, can't really order one from AppliedGMC
Will any old starter Sonlenoid work?
Phillip Udel - I Own a 1975 Avion
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| Re: Onan Starter Solenoid [message #213360 is a reply to message #213354] |
Fri, 05 July 2013 13:02 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| DrPepper wrote on Fri, 05 July 2013 13:19 |
Nevemind. answered my own question
found a picture of the k1 on AppliedGMC.
Does any know if I can pick up a replecment at auto-zone, since I am on the move, can't really order one from AppliedGMC
Will any old starter Sonlenoid work?
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Phillip,
No, most will not. It has to be a version with an isolated (not grounded) operating coil.
I really suggest that you do your best to diagnose the failure with your existing K1 before you chase down and purchase a replacement. The problem is much more likely to be a bad connection than a failure in the actual solenoid.
Take your jumper from pin 7 to pin 1 try to hear it click. If it doesn't, then get out a meter and read for continuity between the two small connections. That should be a small number. If it is, the start looking for where the signal is getting lost.
I have to help loading grands and stuff to stake out a place to watch fireworks, so I may not be back today.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Onan Starter Solenoid [message #213362 is a reply to message #213360] |
Fri, 05 July 2013 13:20 |
DrPepper
Messages: 80
Registered: February 2013
Location: Goose Creek,SC
Karma: 0
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Hi Matt
So I jumped 1 and 7, and the starter turned over.
I also rechecked the Right Post that goes to pin 10 and there is no voltage.
I was going to remove the nuts from the small posts but the right post turns with the nut, and did not what to cause more damage on the road. right know I can run with 11 and 9 jumped.
Phillip Udel - I Own a 1975 Avion
[Updated on: Fri, 05 July 2013 13:35] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Onan Starter Solenoid [message #213365 is a reply to message #213348] |
Fri, 05 July 2013 13:51 |
Rick Williams
Messages: 256
Registered: July 2004
Karma: 0
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Be careful when selecting starter solenoids. I had one fail on a Ford van that looked a lot like the K1 on the Onan. I replaced it with a Napa (made in China) solenoid for $20.00 Right from the beginning that solenoid would stick closed after starting the engine. This of course caused the starter to keep turning over after the engine started and the ignition key was released to the on position. The immediate solution was to open the hood and rap the solenoid with a hammer to get it to release. I returned it to Napa and obtained a replacement. It did the same thing. A trip to the Ford dealership and a $40.00 made in Mexico solenoid resolved the problem. I would not touch a solenoid made in China unless there was no other option.
Rick
Rick Williams
Bliss, Michigan
1978 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Onan Starter Solenoid [message #213391 is a reply to message #213350] |
Fri, 05 July 2013 20:20 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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I just spent several hours helping Stick resurrect his power drawer. Pump was losing voltage. In the final analysis, the problem was (hopefully) healed by supplying good connections between the push on connectors and the PCB, and repairing a couple of corroded places in the runs.
I'm gonna see if I can source a direct replacement for K2. It's assembles with eyelets crimped onto the coil wires, and those wires are waaaay too small to try soldering. This is a failure waiting to happen as the relay ages and the rivets thermal cycle- and they're crimped to dissimilar metal, corrosion city. As in most electronics, age leads to failing connectors as opposed to any component failure. A look at the circuit shows that the safeties pretty much shout down the fuel pump by dropping K2 out. No magic in the control circuitry at all, although the schematic on the cover of the card can be confusing.... It doesn't show whether crossing wires connect or not, you have to scope it out.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode Norris
'76 palm beach
From: Matt Colie <matt7323tze@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Friday, July 5, 2013 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Onan Starter Solenoid
DrPepper wrote on Fri, 05 July 2013 12:51
> I have a intresting porblem while I am on vacation inf Fla. First real time out in the GMC, and just loving it.
>
> My Genset does engage pin 9 with 12V+ when i press the starter switch. I know the board is ok, because I can put it on another genset and it works. So after alot of reading on gmcws.org/Tech/dsimmons/onan/onan.html I have a question.
>
> When I press the start switch I don't have any voltage on Pin 10. I traced the wire to the right Bolt(Small). I tested for power there when the starter is running and have 0v.
>
> Is that right?
>
> I read the Doc, Pin 10 need 12v+ from the Solenoid to engerize ping 9. right?
>
> PS: Anyone know if I can pick up a replacment Solenoid at Auto-Zone?
Phillip,
If you press the start switch and Pin 10 does not become +12V, then it would seem that there is some issue with K1 or connections to same. K1 is the solenoid looking thing behind the control board.
Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie
'73 Glacier 23 Chaumière (say show-me-air)
Now with 4 working Rear Brakes
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Onan Starter Solenoid [message #213393 is a reply to message #213360] |
Fri, 05 July 2013 20:29 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Many Ford solenoids will work - Ford often breaks the ground lead with the neutral safety switch. Pick up one for an '81 F150 with the 300 CID six. Mine had such a solenoid. I think my '05 Rangr Edge with a 3.0 liter V6 has that type also, but I ain't going out in the rainstorm tonight to look. The hardest part will probably be getting it fitted in the space on the Onan.
Remember the quick n dirty solenoid fix.... often the copper ring which makes contact gets arced up and dirty. The cure is to drill the rivets, open the thing and remove the ring and plunger, figure a way to turn the ring over and reconnect to the plunger, clean the fixed contacts, and put the case back together with some small screws and nuts where the rivets were. Yes, I'm cheap.
--johnny
--Johnny
From: Matt Colie <matt7323tze@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Friday, July 5, 2013 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Onan Starter Solenoid
DrPepper wrote on Fri, 05 July 2013 13:19
> Nevemind. answered my own question
>
> found a picture of the k1 on AppliedGMC.
>
> Does any know if I can pick up a replecment at auto-zone, since I am on the move, can't really order one from AppliedGMC
>
> Will any old starter Sonlenoid work?
Phillip,
No, most will not. It has to be a version with an isolated (not grounded) operating coil.
I really suggest that you do your best to diagnose the failure with your existing K1 before you chase down and purchase a replacement. The problem is much more likely to be a bad connection than a failure in the actual solenoid.
Take your jumper from pin 7 to pin 1 try to hear it click. If it doesn't, then get out a meter and read for continuity between the two small connections. That should be a small number. If it is, the start looking for where the signal is getting lost.
I have to help loading grands and stuff to stake out a place to watch fireworks, so I may not be back today.
Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie
'73 Glacier 23 Chaumière (say show-me-air)
Now with 4 working Rear Brakes
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Onan Starter Solenoid [message #213412 is a reply to message #213350] |
Fri, 05 July 2013 21:51 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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That solenoid is unique. Duane nor I neither one could figure out why, but
it has a jumper between the contact disc and one of the other terminals.
That was a LONG time ago so I don't remember the details. If someone can
find a copy of my re-drawn Onan schematic, it's shown (very thin line) on
there. I can't get to the photo site with this connection to get the URL.
It should be feasible to replace it with a standard starter solenoid, but I
repaired mine by cleaning the disc.
Ken H.
On Jul 5, 2013 10:07 AM, "Matt Colie" <matt7323tze@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> DrPepper wrote on Fri, 05 July 2013 12:51
> > I have a intresting porblem while I am on vacation inf Fla. First real
> time out in the GMC, and just loving it.
> >
> > My Genset does engage pin 9 with 12V+ when i press the starter switch.
> I know the board is ok, because I can put it on another genset and it
> works. So after alot of reading on
> gmcws.org/Tech/dsimmons/onan/onan.html I have a question.
> >
> > When I press the start switch I don't have any voltage on Pin 10. I
> traced the wire to the right Bolt(Small). I tested for power there when
> the starter is running and have 0v.
> >
> > Is that right?
> >
> > I read the Doc, Pin 10 need 12v+ from the Solenoid to engerize ping 9.
> right?
> >
> > PS: Anyone know if I can pick up a replacment Solenoid at Auto-Zone?
>
> Phillip,
>
> If you press the start switch and Pin 10 does not become +12V, then it
> would seem that there is some issue with K1 or connections to same. K1 is
> the solenoid looking thing behind the control board.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie
> '73 Glacier 23 Chaumière (say show-me-air)
> Now with 4 working Rear Brakes
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Onan Starter Solenoid [message #213416 is a reply to message #213412] |
Fri, 05 July 2013 22:09 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Ken Henderson wrote on Fri, 05 July 2013 21:51 |
That solenoid is unique. Duane nor I neither one could figure out why, but
it has a jumper between the contact disc and one of the other terminals.
That was a LONG time ago so I don't remember the details. If someone can
find a copy of my re-drawn Onan schematic, it's shown (very thin line) on
there. I can't get to the photo site with this connection to get the URL.
It should be feasible to replace it with a standard starter solenoid, but I
repaired mine by cleaning the disc.
Ken H.
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I just looked at your wiring diagram and I see no reason for it either. I would think that one without it would work just fine.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Onan Starter Solenoid [message #213417 is a reply to message #213412] |
Fri, 05 July 2013 22:10 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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tis here
last page
http://www.bdub.net/manuals/onanmanual.pdf
gene
On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 7:51 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> That solenoid is unique. Duane nor I neither one could figure out why, but
> it has a jumper between the contact disc and one of the other terminals.
> That was a LONG time ago so I don't remember the details. If someone can
> find a copy of my re-drawn Onan schematic, it's shown (very thin line) on
> there. I can't get to the photo site with this connection to get the URL.
>
> It should be feasible to replace it with a standard starter solenoid, but I
> repaired mine by cleaning the disc.
>
> Ken H.
> On Jul 5, 2013 10:07 AM, "Matt Colie" <matt7323tze@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > DrPepper wrote on Fri, 05 July 2013 12:51
> > > I have a intresting porblem while I am on vacation inf Fla. First real
> > time out in the GMC, and just loving it.
> > >
> > > My Genset does engage pin 9 with 12V+ when i press the starter switch.
> > I know the board is ok, because I can put it on another genset and it
> > works. So after alot of reading on
> > gmcws.org/Tech/dsimmons/onan/onan.html I have a question.
> > >
> > > When I press the start switch I don't have any voltage on Pin 10. I
> > traced the wire to the right Bolt(Small). I tested for power there when
> > the starter is running and have 0v.
> > >
> > > Is that right?
> > >
> > > I read the Doc, Pin 10 need 12v+ from the Solenoid to engerize ping 9.
> > right?
> > >
> > > PS: Anyone know if I can pick up a replacment Solenoid at Auto-Zone?
> >
> > Phillip,
> >
> > If you press the start switch and Pin 10 does not become +12V, then it
> > would seem that there is some issue with K1 or connections to same. K1
> is
> > the solenoid looking thing behind the control board.
> >
> > Matt
> > --
> > Matt & Mary Colie
> > '73 Glacier 23 Chaumière (say show-me-air)
> > Now with 4 working Rear Brakes
> > SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: Onan Starter Solenoid [message #213440 is a reply to message #213377] |
Sat, 06 July 2013 05:21 |
DrPepper
Messages: 80
Registered: February 2013
Location: Goose Creek,SC
Karma: 0
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| A Hamilto wrote on Fri, 05 July 2013 19:44 |
| DrPepper wrote on Fri, 05 July 2013 13:20 |
...right know I can run with 11 and 9 jumped.
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Pin 11 is UNFUSED 12v from the battery and pin 5 is FUSED 12v from the battery. Will it run with pin 5 jumpered to pin 9 without blowing the fuse?
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I will try this at our next stop
Phillip Udel - I Own a 1975 Avion
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| Re: Onan Starter Solenoid [message #213637 is a reply to message #213348] |
Sun, 07 July 2013 19:16 |
DrPepper
Messages: 80
Registered: February 2013
Location: Goose Creek,SC
Karma: 0
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Member |
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OK, Back Home
I have a Old gen I can take the K2 from, then I will compare it two a New Ford unit, if they waork out, I will post the part number
Phillip Udel - I Own a 1975 Avion
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| Re: Onan Starter Solenoid [message #213644 is a reply to message #213637] |
Sun, 07 July 2013 20:49 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| DrPepper wrote on Sun, 07 July 2013 19:16 |
OK, Back Home
I have a Old gen I can take the K2 from, then I will compare it two a New Ford unit, if they waork out, I will post the part number
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K2 is a relay on the control board You are talking about K1.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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