Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Sirum 4 bag replacements
| Sirum 4 bag replacements [message #210294] |
Sat, 08 June 2013 06:38  |
xplorid
Messages: 213
Registered: February 2012
Location: Boise
Karma: 0
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Hi all - anybody know the Sirum 4 bag system bag replacement?
Test driving my coach yesterday, had the center mount that separates the two bags break and dropped the drivers side rear suspension, lost both bags. This was, according to the PO, installed by Sirum a few years ago. Bill Hubler to the rescue with a j-hook jack, a big threaded bolt that got me home, and he actually welded the mount back together before I was home. What a guy.
So, I need two bags and cannot tell what these are except they are Firestone.
1974/94 GMCII by Explorer
Manny 6.5 TD Al radiator
1 ton front 4 bags back
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| Re: Sirum 4 bag replacements [message #210305 is a reply to message #210299] |
Sat, 08 June 2013 07:49  |
xplorid
Messages: 213
Registered: February 2012
Location: Boise
Karma: 0
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Not sure exciting is the word I would use, but there was some detectable disturbance in the force. I learned a lot.
My 73 coach has about 1" clearance to the well liner with the bags fully deflated, so I drove off the freeway with the bags flatter than pancakes. I need a j-hook jack. I need spare bags. I need $1000 for a JimK quad bag - such a great guy he offered me a trade-in on what I have just after I bought the coach last year, and now I am sorry I did not take him up on it.
So lucky Bill H was not too far away. But on the way home the windshield cracked from a flying stone, and had my 1st vapor lock hiccup of the year (it was 95 here yesterday). By the time we got roadworthy it was after hours in Fremont, but you can bet I am filling up my shopping cart over the weekend.
1974/94 GMCII by Explorer
Manny 6.5 TD Al radiator
1 ton front 4 bags back
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| Re: Sirum 4 bag replacements [message #210322 is a reply to message #210299] |
Sat, 08 June 2013 09:49 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Sounds more like the Applied moveable/hinged plate system that is now discontinued.
Glad no major damage.
Dennis
| WD0AFQ wrote on Sat, 08 June 2013 07:32 |
Oh wow. That must have been exciting. I am surprised Bill did not call Applied for you. I think they may have the bags for that unit. Sounds like one of the early Harrison systems.
Dan
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: Sirum 4 bag replacements [message #210324 is a reply to message #210294] |
Sat, 08 June 2013 10:07 |
xplorid
Messages: 213
Registered: February 2012
Location: Boise
Karma: 0
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Dennis - it is a hinged plate in the middle of the two bags, and when we pulled it off it was very apparent that it was bolted in very tight, so not much of a hinge, and there was absolutely no grease inside despite a zerk fitting at the hinge. Shame on me for not knowing there was a zerk there (it was so dirty you would have had to know it was there), and shame on whoever did whatever before me.
The interesting thing is that steering was really straight on the way home with the threaded bolt in place of the bags. Maybe an illusion, but I wonder how long this has been failing, and whether I have been getting wander as a result.
Have to go pick up the bad bags from Bill to get the right bag numbers, I guess. I must have the most obscure 4 bag system out there, but I have a feeling the bag is common.
1974/94 GMCII by Explorer
Manny 6.5 TD Al radiator
1 ton front 4 bags back
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| Re: [GMCnet] Sirum 4 bag replacements [message #210326 is a reply to message #210324] |
Sat, 08 June 2013 10:38 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Jeff,
I don't mean to be a wise guy but why don't you just call Jeff Sirum?
http://www.gmcmh.com/
http://www.gmcmh.com/air_bags.htm
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: jeff sugheir
Dennis - it is a hinged plate in the middle of the two bags, and when we pulled it off it was very apparent that it was bolted in
very tight, so not much of a hinge, and there was absolutely no grease inside despite a zerk fitting at the hinge. Shame on me for
not knowing there was a zerk there (it was so dirty you would have had to know it was there), and shame on whoever did whatever
before me.
The interesting thing is that steering was really straight on the way home with the threaded bolt in place of the bags. Maybe an
illusion, but I wonder how long this has been failing, and whether I have been getting wander as a result.
Have to go pick up the bad bags from Bill to get the right bag numbers, I guess. I must have the most obscure 4 bag system out
there, but I have a feeling the bag is common.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Sirum 4 bag replacements [message #210327 is a reply to message #210326] |
Sat, 08 June 2013 10:50 |
xplorid
Messages: 213
Registered: February 2012
Location: Boise
Karma: 0
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No answer last night (2 hrs difference, so no surprise there) and no answer this morning, I assume they are enjoying themselves rather than working on a Saturday.
1974/94 GMCII by Explorer
Manny 6.5 TD Al radiator
1 ton front 4 bags back
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| Re: [GMCnet] Sirum 4 bag replacements [message #210328 is a reply to message #210327] |
Sat, 08 June 2013 10:55 |
xplorid
Messages: 213
Registered: February 2012
Location: Boise
Karma: 0
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OBTW - the pics in Rob's post look exactly like what I have, and so those are likely the bags I need. The shear was just above the pivot mounting, and that is substantial steel. Unbelievable there was not more damage. At this point I am more pissed about the cracked windshield.
1974/94 GMCII by Explorer
Manny 6.5 TD Al radiator
1 ton front 4 bags back
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| Re: [GMCnet] Sirum 4 bag replacements [message #210331 is a reply to message #210324] |
Sat, 08 June 2013 11:21 |
Len Novak
Messages: 676
Registered: February 2004
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Karma: -3
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I've got the Dual bag system Jim K came up with a few years ago. It was
easy to install and works better that the original system.
Yep, I know it has been recalled/discontinued.
Cheers,
Len and Pat Novak
1978 GMC Kingsley
The Beast II with dash lights that work and labels you can see!
Fallbrook, CA new email: B52Rule@Roadrunner.Com
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=4375
www.bdub.net/novak/
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of jeff sugheir
Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2013 8:08 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Sirum 4 bag replacements
Dennis - it is a hinged plate in the middle of the two bags, and when we
pulled it off it was very apparent that it was bolted in very tight, so not
much of a hinge, and there was absolutely no grease inside despite a zerk
fitting at the hinge. Shame on me for not knowing there was a zerk there
(it was so dirty you would have had to know it was there), and shame on
whoever did whatever before me.
The interesting thing is that steering was really straight on the way home
with the threaded bolt in place of the bags. Maybe an illusion, but I
wonder how long this has been failing, and whether I have been getting
wander as a result.
Have to go pick up the bad bags from Bill to get the right bag numbers, I
guess. I must have the most obscure 4 bag system out there, but I have a
feeling the bag is common.
--
1973 Transmode/94 GMCII in Boise 76 455 with headers and Patterson
Distributor,Manny 1 ton front, quad bags back, Manny Precision Steering
Gearbox
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Len and Pat Novak
1978 GMC Kingsley
The Beast II with dash lights that work and labels you can see!
Las Vegas, NV new email: B52sRule@Gmail.com
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=4375
www.bdub.net/novak/
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| Re: [GMCnet] Sirum 4 bag replacements [message #210343 is a reply to message #210331] |
Sat, 08 June 2013 13:34 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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The air bags we have in stock, same as for the Q *Bag system.*
*These bags might be similer, but different in the way they mount.*
On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 9:21 AM, Len Novak <B52Rule@roadrunner.com> wrote:
> I've got the Dual bag system Jim K came up with a few years ago. It was
> easy to install and works better that the original system.
>
>
> Yep, I know it has been recalled/discontinued.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Len and Pat Novak
> 1978 GMC Kingsley
> The Beast II with dash lights that work and labels you can see!
> Fallbrook, CA new email: B52Rule@Roadrunner.Com
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=4375
>
> www.bdub.net/novak/
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of jeff sugheir
> Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2013 8:08 AM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Sirum 4 bag replacements
>
>
>
> Dennis - it is a hinged plate in the middle of the two bags, and when we
> pulled it off it was very apparent that it was bolted in very tight, so not
> much of a hinge, and there was absolutely no grease inside despite a zerk
> fitting at the hinge. Shame on me for not knowing there was a zerk there
> (it was so dirty you would have had to know it was there), and shame on
> whoever did whatever before me.
>
> The interesting thing is that steering was really straight on the way home
> with the threaded bolt in place of the bags. Maybe an illusion, but I
> wonder how long this has been failing, and whether I have been getting
> wander as a result.
>
> Have to go pick up the bad bags from Bill to get the right bag numbers, I
> guess. I must have the most obscure 4 bag system out there, but I have a
> feeling the bag is common.
> --
> 1973 Transmode/94 GMCII in Boise 76 455 with headers and Patterson
> Distributor,Manny 1 ton front, quad bags back, Manny Precision Steering
> Gearbox
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2013.0.3343 / Virus Database: 3199/6394 - Release Date: 06/08/13
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: Sirum 4 bag replacements [message #210352 is a reply to message #210294] |
Sat, 08 June 2013 14:31 |
xplorid
Messages: 213
Registered: February 2012
Location: Boise
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Hi Jim K - are you saying that I can order the bags for the Sirum setup from you , and you are there today? I am calling you in a few minutes!
1974/94 GMCII by Explorer
Manny 6.5 TD Al radiator
1 ton front 4 bags back
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| Re: [GMCnet] Sirum 4 bag replacements [message #210359 is a reply to message #210294] |
Sat, 08 June 2013 15:25 |
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hnielsen2
Messages: 1434
Registered: February 2004
Location: Alpine CA
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Yes Bill is quit a guy.
Howard
All is well with my Lord
On Jun 8, 2013, at 4:38 AM, jeff sugheir <jeff.sugheir@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi all - anybody know the Sirum 4 bag system bag replacement?
> Test driving my coach yesterday, had the center mount that separates the two bags break and dropped the drivers side rear suspension, lost both bags. This was, according to the PO, installed by Sirum a few years ago. Bill Hubler to the rescue with a j-hook jack, a big threaded bolt that got me home, and he actually welded the mount back together before I was home. What a guy.
>
> So, I need two bags and cannot tell what these are except they are Firestone.
> --
> 1973 Transmode/94 GMCII in Boise 76 455 with headers and Patterson Distributor,Manny 1 ton front, quad bags back, Manny Precision Steering Gearbox
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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All is well with my Lord
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| Re: Sirum 4 bag replacements [message #210400 is a reply to message #210294] |
Sat, 08 June 2013 20:43 |
xplorid
Messages: 213
Registered: February 2012
Location: Boise
Karma: 0
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To close out the topic - the Sirum system appears to be the same as the early JimK system, discontinued for exactly the reason that caused my catastrophic failure. The bags are the same ones used on the current Q-bag from Jim K, and Jim is shipping two bags, plus the Q-bag upgrade. I will never trust the old system, knowing what I know now. Thanks JimK,
and now looking forward to not only the peace of mind, but seeing if the steering improvement is real.
1974/94 GMCII by Explorer
Manny 6.5 TD Al radiator
1 ton front 4 bags back
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| Re: [GMCnet] Sirum 4 bag replacements [message #210410 is a reply to message #210400] |
Sat, 08 June 2013 22:15 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Jeff pulled a Manny on me but kept the price the same, so I did not cry.
After 2 of our units did the twist, I recalled them and refunded them 100%
and allowed them to purchase the Q Bag system for $500. Had around 15
people take the program.
I tried to convince Jeff to quit selling them ,but felt there would be no
problem.
It is always easy to see other peoples errors.
On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 6:43 PM, jeff sugheir <jeff.sugheir@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> To close out the topic - the Sirum system appears to be the same as the
> early JimK system, discontinued for exactly the reason that caused my
> catastrophic failure. The bags are the same ones used on the current Q-bag
> from Jim K, and Jim is shipping two bags, plus the Q-bag upgrade. I will
> never trust the old system, knowing what I know now. Thanks JimK,
> and now looking forward to not only the peace of mind, but seeing if the
> steering improvement is real.
> --
> 1973 Transmode/94 GMCII in Boise 76 455 with headers and Patterson
> Distributor,Manny 1 ton front, quad bags back, Manny Precision Steering
> Gearbox
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: Sirum 4 bag replacements [message #210441 is a reply to message #210294] |
Sun, 09 June 2013 08:05 |
xplorid
Messages: 213
Registered: February 2012
Location: Boise
Karma: 0
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Ain't capitalism wonderful?
I will call Jeff (Sirum) on Monday so he knows what happened, we'll see if anything sticks...I think it's great that there are a few migration paths from the original bags, but a bit of trial and error, and a sprinkling of R&D, and we have the Q-bag system which I am now convinced is the single best (safe and effective) solution.
Yes I wish it was less spendy, but really, it's just a bit more than the next best alternative, so if you are thinking about it, think about my catastrophic failure, which occurred at relatively low speed, on the on-ramp, and by myself. I can only imagine such a thing at highway speed with family and pets on board, and from that perspective, I am glad it happened.
1974/94 GMCII by Explorer
Manny 6.5 TD Al radiator
1 ton front 4 bags back
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| Re: [GMCnet] Sirum 4 bag replacements [message #210451 is a reply to message #210441] |
Sun, 09 June 2013 10:14 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Jeff,
I'd like to understand what exactly failed on your Dual Bag suspension. In the first message I read "the center mount that separates
the two bags break." Where did it break?
Further along in the thread I read; "it was bolted in very tight, so not much of a hinge, and there was absolutely no grease inside
despite a zerk fitting at the hinge."
1) Did the pivot seize?
2) Did the pivot bolt break?
3) Did the weld that attaches the pivot to the flat bracket break?
4) Does that system use the 3/8-16 bolt for the T-skirt and the 1/4-20 bolt for the brake line T to hold it to the bogie?
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: jeff sugheir
Ain't capitalism wonderful?
I will call Jeff (Sirum) on Monday so he knows what happened, we'll see if anything sticks...I think it's great that there are a few
migration paths from the original bags, but a bit of trial and error, and a sprinkling of R&D, and we have the Q-bag system which I
am now convinced is the single best (safe and effective) solution.
Yes I wish it was less spendy, but really, it's just a bit more than the next best alternative, so if you are thinking about it,
think about my catastrophic failure, which occurred at relatively low speed, on the on-ramp, and by myself. I can only imagine such
a thing at highway speed with family and pets on board, and from that perspective, I am glad it happened.
_______________________________________________
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Sirum 4 bag replacements [message #210468 is a reply to message #210294] |
Sun, 09 June 2013 13:14 |
xplorid
Messages: 213
Registered: February 2012
Location: Boise
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Break was at the base of the "paddle", just above the pivot. Not sure what happened, but here is my guess - system was installed improperly with the pivot bolt overtightened and never greased - it was spotless inside. Not sure if the paddle assembly was seized - The pivot bolt is intact and straight, but it took a small breaker bar to loosen it. Location of the break is consistent with seizure of the pivot. So - a rare combination of a just the right force on the paddle, with limitation of the tightened pivot, in an inherently weak design.
A weld, properly adjusted bolt, and some grease and this would have a chance of staying on the coach, but I am gonna think about the suspension dropping every time I make a hard turn, so Q-bags are going on next weekend.
1974/94 GMCII by Explorer
Manny 6.5 TD Al radiator
1 ton front 4 bags back
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| Re: [GMCnet] Sirum 4 bag replacements [message #210529 is a reply to message #210468] |
Sun, 09 June 2013 21:20 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Jeff,
Thanks!
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: jeff sugheir
Break was at the base of the "paddle", just above the pivot. Not sure what happened, but here is my guess - system was installed
improperly with the pivot bolt overtightened and never greased - it was spotless inside. Not sure if the paddle assembly was seized
- The pivot bolt is intact and straight, but it took a small breaker bar to loosen it. Location of the break is consistent with
seizure of the pivot. So - a rare combination of a just the right force on the paddle, with limitation of the tightened pivot, in
an inherently weak design.
A weld, properly adjusted bolt, and some grease and this would have a chance of staying on the coach, but I am gonna think about the
suspension dropping every time I make a hard turn, so Q-bags are going on next weekend.
--
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Sirum 4 bag replacements [message #210711 is a reply to message #210294] |
Tue, 11 June 2013 15:47 |
xplorid
Messages: 213
Registered: February 2012
Location: Boise
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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A tribute to our vendor community - Jeff Sirum has offered to replace my broken system with an upgraded kit (same system, bigger steel), and replace the bags, even though we could not find a PO receipt for the install. Jim K offered a trade in value on the old system (very generous) to upgrade to a Q-bag kit. This community, and its supporting vendors, are just plain overwhelming. Thanks all.
1974/94 GMCII by Explorer
Manny 6.5 TD Al radiator
1 ton front 4 bags back
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