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| [GMCnet] Question about Duracool... [message #209768] |
Mon, 03 June 2013 21:57  |
kelvin
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2004
Location: Eugene, OR
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Not GMC, butat least it's a GMC towd.
I have Duracool in my Datsun A/C. I think there is a leak in the
condenser, which is buried in the dealer-option, under-dash ARA unit.
Not an easy fix, so I haven't. Easier to addDuracool once a year.
So I added a can this year. Wondering if I added too much. It's only
75° here the last couple days but it will blow nice and cold - for about
a mile. Then it kicks the compressor off. Give it a couple/three miles
and it'll come on again for another mile or soand then kick off.
Can I assume it's freezing up something? Does it sound like too much
refrigerant?
You guys know more about this stuff (and AC in general) than anyone else
I know. Seemed the logical place to ask the question.
Thanks in advance.
Kelvin
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| Re: [GMCnet] Question about Duracool... [message #209786 is a reply to message #209768] |
Tue, 04 June 2013 06:19  |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
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Symptom of high head pressure... so likely too much refrigerant. If you can identify the high pressure cutout switch, hang your voltmeter across it ans see if it doesn't jump to 12V when the compressor quits, indicating that it has opened. If so, bleed some gas out of the system a little at a time till the comopressor stays on even on hot days.
Which Datsun? I had a '68 510 wagon, lovely little ride till some a$$hat t-boned it trying to pass my wife as she made a turn. Even bent double, it took care of her and the kid in the rear shild seat, they both walked away from it. Sturdy ride that was.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach.
________________________________
From: Kelvin Dietz <kelvin@datsuns.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 10:57 PM
Subject: [GMCnet] Question about Duracool...
Not GMC, butat least it's a GMC towd.
I have Duracool in my Datsun A/C. I think there is a leak in the
condenser, which is buried in the dealer-option, under-dash ARA unit.
Not an easy fix, so I haven't. Easier to addDuracool once a year.
So I added a can this year. Wondering if I added too much. It's only
75° here the last couple days but it will blow nice and cold - for about
a mile. Then it kicks the compressor off. Give it a couple/three miles
and it'll come on again for another mile or soand then kick off.
Can I assume it's freezing up something? Does it sound like too much
refrigerant?
You guys know more about this stuff (and AC in general) than anyone else
I know. Seemed the logical place to ask the question.
Thanks in advance.
Kelvin
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Question about Duracool... [message #209791 is a reply to message #209768] |
Tue, 04 June 2013 08:02 |
 |
Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| Kelvin Dietz wrote on Mon, 03 June 2013 22:57 |
Not GMC, but at least it's a GMC towd.
I have Duracool in my Datsun A/C. I think there is a leak in the condenser, which is buried in the dealer-option, under-dash ARA unit.
Not an easy fix, so I haven't. Easier to add Duracool once a year.
So I added a can this year. Wondering if I added too much. It's only 75° here the last couple days but it will blow nice and cold - for about a mile. Then it kicks the compressor off. Give it a couple/three miles and it'll come on again for another mile or soand then kick off.
Can I assume it's freezing up something? Does it sound like too much refrigerant?
You guys know more about this stuff (and AC in general) than anyone else I know. Seemed the logical place to ask the question.
Thanks in advance.
Kelvin
|
Kelvin,
The part in the cab is the evaporator - the condenser is the part in front of the radiator.
First Question: ¿Did it ever work right?
Freezing up is a symptom of low charge. Duracool is funny this way, for a guy that worked F-12 for decades, I have a hard time with establishing charge levels on HC-12.
I don't know the Datsun A/C, there could be a either a low pressure or a freeze (temperature) switch in the system that is shutting it down. Either case, these are both low charge issues.
An easy way to tell if it is freezing in the condenser: Drive it around until the A/C stops, then go someplace and park on dry pavement. If 5~10 minutes later, water shows up under the car that is the condenser melting. - Yeap, you are charge short.
When you get to the place you buy Duracool, ask for a can with "system sealer". It will cost a bunch more, but I am told it works very well - I have not actually tried it out myself.
If that doesn't do it, then next buy the can with leak tracing dye in it, a pair of yellow sun glasses and an LED UV light and then go looking for the spots.
Good Luck
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Question about Duracool... [message #209819 is a reply to message #209791] |
Tue, 04 June 2013 10:03 |
kelvin
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2004
Location: Eugene, OR
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 6/4/2013 6:02 AM, Matt Colie wrote:
>
> Kelvin Dietz wrote on Mon, 03 June 2013 22:57
>> Not GMC, but at least it's a GMC towd.
>>
>> I have Duracool in my Datsun A/C. I think there is a leak in the condenser, which is buried in the dealer-option, under-dash ARA unit.
>> Not an easy fix, so I haven't. Easier to add Duracool once a year.
>>
>> So I added a can this year. Wondering if I added too much. It's only 75° here the last couple days but it will blow nice and cold - for about a mile. Then it kicks the compressor off. Give it a couple/three miles and it'll come on again for another mile or soand then kick off.
>>
>> Can I assume it's freezing up something? Does it sound like too much refrigerant?
>>
>> You guys know more about this stuff (and AC in general) than anyone else I know. Seemed the logical place to ask the question.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>> Kelvin
> Kelvin,
>
> The part in the cab is the evaporator - the condenser is the part in front of the radiator.
Yeah... I know that. In fact, minutes before I was typing the word I
reminded myself which word to type.
And then out came "condenser".
>
> First Question: ¿Did it ever work right?
It was good last year. If I ran it on cooler days it would do this
(65ish) but anything above 70° and it would work correctly.
> Freezing up is a symptom of low charge. Duracool is funny this way, for a guy that worked F-12 for decades, I have a hard time with establishing charge levels on HC-12.
And since this system is an amalgamation of old (under-dash), not so old
(compressor is '95 vintage Nissan) and new (condenser, tubes and
fittings) it's a guess as to how much I should have in there. Plus the
fact that my AC experience involved a previous Datsun with Vintage Air
stuff that I had charged with R134 and this one. Not really good at
reading those gauges.
>
> I don't know the Datsun A/C, there could be a either a low pressure or a freeze (temperature) switch in the system that is shutting it down. Either case, these are both low charge issues.
It has a "trinary" switch that I installed. I assume the original '71
installation had a binary switch.
> An easy way to tell if it is freezing in the condenser: Drive it around until the A/C stops, then go someplace and park on dry pavement. If 5~10 minutes later, water shows up under the car that is the condenser melting. - Yeap, you are charge short.
The condenser will actually get ice on the outside? I wouldn't have
expected that.
> When you get to the place you buy Duracool, ask for a can with "system sealer". It will cost a bunch more, but I am told it works very well - I have not actually tried it out myself.
Now that's worth a shot. Only two more cans left of the original case I
bought years ago. I figured that would be a lifetime supply, but alas...
>
> If that doesn't do it, then next buy the can with leak tracing dye in it, a pair of yellow sun glasses and an LED UV light and then go looking for the spots.
Yeah... got that setup. Hard to see the evaporator, however. I have
had the whole case apart and I'm pretty sure there is green in there.
It's been a couple years.
Thanks for the help. It's starting to warm up here in Oregon. Cool is
good.
Kelvin
'73 23' in Eugene, OR
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| Re: [GMCnet] Question about Duracool... [message #209821 is a reply to message #209786] |
Tue, 04 June 2013 10:25 |
kelvin
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2004
Location: Eugene, OR
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On 6/4/2013 4:19 AM, Johnny Bridges wrote:
> Symptom of high head pressure... so likely too much refrigerant. If you can identify the high pressure cutout switch, hang your voltmeter across it ans see if it doesn't jump to 12V when the compressor quits, indicating that it has opened. If so, bleed some gas out of the system a little at a time till the comopressor stays on even on hot days.
And Opinion #2 says the pressure is high. Anyone else want to jump
in? :^)
I can check that switch easy enough. Just behind my grill on the
dryer. But if the condenser is freezing up because of a LOW charge
won't the pressure go up, too?
> Which Datsun? I had a '68 510 wagon,
It's a '71 510 wagon. Owned this one since 2006.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5462/7219277056_7a4e7bd979_o.jpg
Been driving a 510 of one sort or another since '79.
> lovely little ride till some a$$hat t-boned it trying to pass my wife as she made a turn. Even bent double, it took care of her and the kid in the rear shild seat, they both walked away from it. Sturdy ride that was.
They actually fold up nicely in an accident. I've seen them rolled,
rear-ended hard and even in a near head-on collision. They might have
been ahead of their time in crash absorption.
Kelvin
> From: Kelvin Dietz <kelvin@datsuns.com>
> I have Duracool in my Datsun A/C. I think there is a leak in the
> condenser, which is buried in the dealer-option, under-dash ARA unit.
> Not an easy fix, so I haven't. Easier to addDuracool once a year.
>
> So I added a can this year. Wondering if I added too much. It's only
> 75° here the last couple days but it will blow nice and cold - for about
> a mile. Then it kicks the compressor off. Give it a couple/three miles
> and it'll come on again for another mile or soand then kick off.
>
> Can I assume it's freezing up something? Does it sound like too much
> refrigerant?
>
> You guys know more about this stuff (and AC in general) than anyone else
> I know. Seemed the logical place to ask the question.
>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Question about Duracool... [message #209823 is a reply to message #209821] |
Tue, 04 June 2013 10:48 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Look for 23 pounds
Let out 5 lb
Add 10 lb
See what works :)
FREE WIFI @ Mickey D
On Jun 4, 2013, at 8:25 AM, Kelvin Dietz <kelvin@datsuns.com> wrote:
> On 6/4/2013 4:19 AM, Johnny Bridges wrote:
>> Symptom of high head pressure... so likely too much refrigerant. If you can identify the high pressure cutout switch, hang your voltmeter across it ans see if it doesn't jump to 12V when the compressor quits, indicating that it has opened. If so, bleed some gas out of the system a little at a time till the comopressor stays on even on hot days.
>
> And Opinion #2 says the pressure is high. Anyone else want to jump
> in? :^)
> I can check that switch easy enough. Just behind my grill on the
> dryer. But if the condenser is freezing up because of a LOW charge
> won't the pressure go up, too?
>
>
>> Which Datsun? I had a '68 510 wagon,
> It's a '71 510 wagon. Owned this one since 2006.
> http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5462/7219277056_7a4e7bd979_o.jpg
>
> Been driving a 510 of one sort or another since '79.
>
>> lovely little ride till some a$$hat t-boned it trying to pass my wife as she made a turn. Even bent double, it took care of her and the kid in the rear shild seat, they both walked away from it. Sturdy ride that was.
>
> They actually fold up nicely in an accident. I've seen them rolled,
> rear-ended hard and even in a near head-on collision. They might have
> been ahead of their time in crash absorption.
>
> Kelvin
>
>> From: Kelvin Dietz <kelvin@datsuns.com>
>> I have Duracool in my Datsun A/C. I think there is a leak in the
>> condenser, which is buried in the dealer-option, under-dash ARA unit.
>> Not an easy fix, so I haven't. Easier to addDuracool once a year.
>>
>> So I added a can this year. Wondering if I added too much. It's only
>> 75° here the last couple days but it will blow nice and cold - for about
>> a mile. Then it kicks the compressor off. Give it a couple/three miles
>> and it'll come on again for another mile or soand then kick off.
>>
>> Can I assume it's freezing up something? Does it sound like too much
>> refrigerant?
>>
>> You guys know more about this stuff (and AC in general) than anyone else
>> I know. Seemed the logical place to ask the question.
>>
>>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Question about Duracool... [message #209824 is a reply to message #209821] |
Tue, 04 June 2013 11:43 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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| Kelvin Dietz wrote on Tue, 04 June 2013 08:25 |
On 6/4/2013 4:19 AM, Johnny Bridges wrote:
> Symptom of high head pressure... so likely too much refrigerant. If you can identify the high pressure cutout switch, hang your voltmeter across it ans see if it doesn't jump to 12V when the compressor quits, indicating that it has opened. If so, bleed some gas out of the system a little at a time till the comopressor stays on even on hot days.
And Opinion #2 says the pressure is high. Anyone else want to jump
in? :^)
I can check that switch easy enough. Just behind my grill on the
dryer. But if the condenser is freezing up because of a LOW charge
won't the pressure go up, too?
Kelvin the condenser is not going to freeze up .that is the high side coil.The evap coil can freeze up if the charge is low. High pressure will cycle a high pressure switch if you have one,most cars don't in which case the pressure relief would blow off refrigerant at a predetermined pressure. If you jump out the switch for testing make sure it is a loss of charge switch and not a high pressure switch. You are probably cycling a low temperature control caused by icing in the evaporator due to a low refrigerant charge.if it were high pressure it would cycle rapidly. The way I leak check after you determine it is low on a charge is add a small amount of r12 the use my electronic detector. R22 or 134 would work too but then you need to totally remove and recharge when you find the leak.
>
>
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Roy Keen
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76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Question about Duracool... [message #209834 is a reply to message #209821] |
Tue, 04 June 2013 13:37 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Eventually but not as quickly and not as high. If you added gas, it's unlikely to be too low unless it gots a major leak.
--johnny
________________________________
From: Kelvin Dietz <kelvin@datsuns.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Question about Duracool...
On 6/4/2013 4:19 AM, Johnny Bridges wrote:
> Symptom of high head pressure... so likely too much refrigerant. If you can identify the high pressure cutout switch, hang your voltmeter across it ans see if it doesn't jump to 12V when the compressor quits, indicating that it has opened. If so, bleed some gas out of the system a little at a time till the comopressor stays on even on hot days.
And Opinion #2 says the pressure is high. Anyone else want to jump
in? :^)
I can check that switch easy enough. Just behind my grill on the
dryer. But if the condenser is freezing up because of a LOW charge
won't the pressure go up, too?
> Which Datsun? I had a '68 510 wagon,
It's a '71 510 wagon. Owned this one since 2006.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5462/7219277056_7a4e7bd979_o.jpg
Been driving a 510 of one sort or another since '79.
> lovely little ride till some a$$hat t-boned it trying to pass my wife as she made a turn. Even bent double, it took care of her and the kid in the rear shild seat, they both walked away from it. Sturdy ride that was.
They actually fold up nicely in an accident. I've seen them rolled,
rear-ended hard and even in a near head-on collision. They might have
been ahead of their time in crash absorption.
Kelvin
> From: Kelvin Dietz <kelvin@datsuns.com>
> I have Duracool in my Datsun A/C. I think there is a leak in the
> condenser, which is buried in the dealer-option, under-dash ARA unit.
> Not an easy fix, so I haven't. Easier to addDuracool once a year.
>
> So I added a can this year. Wondering if I added too much. It's only
> 75° here the last couple days but it will blow nice and cold - for about
> a mile. Then it kicks the compressor off. Give it a couple/three miles
> and it'll come on again for another mile or soand then kick off.
>
> Can I assume it's freezing up something? Does it sound like too much
> refrigerant?
>
> You guys know more about this stuff (and AC in general) than anyone else
> I know. Seemed the logical place to ask the question.
>
>
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Question about Duracool... [message #209835 is a reply to message #209824] |
Tue, 04 June 2013 13:39 |
Emery Stora
Messages: 959
Registered: January 2011
Karma: 4
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" But if the condenser is freezing up because of a LOW charge won't the pressure go up, too?"
First of all it is the evaporator that can freeze up, not the condensor. However it is not the fluid/ vapor inside the evaporator tubes freezing it is water vapor condensate on the outside of the fins that is freezing and as the ice builds up it blocks the airflow. So, if you are getting reduced air flow from the outlets then you likely have too low a charge. If you turn off the air conditioner for a while and just leave the fan on you will quickly learn if you have increased air flow as the ice melts.
Too low a charge can also trip the low pressure switch.
Emery Stora
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