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| Re: [GMCnet] Answers [message #209671 is a reply to message #209647] |
Sun, 02 June 2013 22:44   |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Howard,
For the most part higher octane fuels have a higher boiling point as they have different blends of additives and less lights. I can tell you from personal experience that winter fuels in hot weather are terrible and boil easily. We had 3 coaches that filled up in Oklahoma with bad gas. One was a carb, one was a TBI and one was a MPFI. Had to drive after dark to use the fuel up and even then there was intermittent vapor lock. With the blends of fuels today I do not see the problem getting any better using regular grade fuel in the near future. I run premium grade fuels when we go out west and at elevated altitudes and when the temperature is elevated. It does help somewhat. In the Buskirk stretch we have a 3 tank layout, 75 gallons total. The front 2 tanks are the main tanks and they are tied together by a line that connects the bottom drains together with the fuel sender in the middle tank. The rear tank is the auxiliary tank. The whole system needs to come apart
and have in-tank pumps installed similar to Emery's design. I am going to redo the system to correct several problems that have appeared in the original design. I will do lots of pictures when I do the change over.
JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
Michigan
On Jun 2, 2013, at 8:26 PM, Howard <hnielsen2@cox.net> wrote:
> JR. Higher octane will not lower the boiling point.
> I'll find the article talking about fuel "gas" boiling between 100 to 400 deg.
> I also know someone posted that the new gas boiled at 98 degs
> Here is my experience
> 120 out.
> Pavement 130 plus
> Gen set stop running
> Remove gas cap gas flys out of fill tube.
> My fix first time paint bottom of tanks with Henry's silver roofing paint stuff.
> That was in New Mexico
> Helped some not much.
> Get home install diamond plate.
> So far miner vapor lock problem.
> I start out each trip at 2,400.
> Most of the time I end up in hot weather very quick.
> Thanks
> Howard
>
>
>
>
> All is well with my Lord
>
> On Jun 2, 2013, at 8:55 AM, John Wright <powerjon@chartermi.net> wrote:
>
>> Howard,
>> This is a good explanation of gasoline and vapor pressure which is the major cause of vapor lock. It appears that most of the 87 octane (reg gas) boils in a range between 140 to 170 degF depending on the percentage of lights that have been added to promote volatility. The higher the octane rating of gasoline the slower it burns. Less preignition and less knock.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline
>>
>> JR Wright
>> 78 Buskirk Stretch
>> Michigan
>>
>>
>>>
>>> http://t.answers.com/answers/#!/entry/what-is-the-boiling-point-of-gasoline,4ffa26f47af68a84dcf55827/2
>>> Boils between 100 and 400
>>> Howard
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Answers [message #209674 is a reply to message #209598] |
Mon, 03 June 2013 01:03 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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Senior Member |
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thanks, Howard. I had read this article.
I guess my questioning of the general loathing of Ethanol on the bird feeder is that we know Winter gas boils easier than Summer gas. But winter gas does not necessairly have more ethanol.
I wonder if the loathing of Ethanol is because we can read about it on the pump. The more I read the more I am discovering that ethanol is one of many additives to gas. Some additives make gas boil quicker. It may even be true that if gasoline is laced with ethanol then can have different formulations of additives that cause quick boiling.
I am just not convinced ethanol is the only bad guy here.
I have a suspicion that if we had been using ethanol for 50 years and it suddenly was being replaced by lead, there would be a hue and cry about the evils of lead and how our rigs refuse to run because there was lead in gasoline... Lead that doesn't burn, lead that doesn't add to the energy content, etc. (yeah,I know about soft valve seats and guides)
Gas is laced with all sorts of chemicals, seasonally. Ethanol is listed on the pump, probably, originally, because the government was proud of how clever they were. The only other information I see is that the pump has been tested and gasoline causes cancer.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
[Updated on: Mon, 03 June 2013 01:05] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Answers [message #209696 is a reply to message #209674] |
Mon, 03 June 2013 08:38 |
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hnielsen2
Messages: 1434
Registered: February 2004
Location: Alpine CA
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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George
The number one problem I have with Ethanol is this.
We are burning our food.
I have spent $'s on replacing fuel lines twice on the GMC rebuilding or replacing carburetors on our small engines, weed wakers,chipper.
I now run them dry before I put them away.
We live two miles north of I-8 at 2,400 feet
Not a week goes by without a car fire.
We have a friend on returning from the desert when his SOB caught on fire.
Who is blessed to be alive today.
Cause of fire, rubber fuel lines.
This guys knows his way around a motor home.
He owners a R V repair shop.
What can we do?
Join WWW.SEMASAN.COM
Call,email your state,national law makers.
Yes it helps
See what Florida did.
Getting off my soap box.
Thanks
Howard
26' Canyon Lands
All is well with my Lord
On Jun 2, 2013, at 11:03 PM, George Beckman <gbeckman@pggp.com> wrote:
>
>
> Howard Nielsen wrote on Sun, 02 June 2013 01:07
>> http://t.answers.com/answers/#!/entry/what-is-the-boiling-point-of-gasoline,4ffa26f47af68a84dcf55827/2
>> Boils between 100 and 400
>> Howard
>>
>> All is well with my Lord
>
> thanks, Howard. I had read this article.
>
> I guess my questioning of the general loathing of Ethanol on the bird feeder is that we know Winter gas boils easier than Summer gas. But winter gas does not necessairly have more ethanol.
>
> I wonder if the loathing of Ethanol is because we can read about it on the pump. The more I read the more I am discovering that ethanol is one of many additives to gas. Some additives make gas boil quicker. It may even be true that if gasoline is laced with ethanol then can have different formulations of additives that cause quick boiling.
>
> I am just not convinced ethanol is the only bad guy here.
>
> I have a suspicion that if we had even using ethanol for 50 years and it suddenly was being replaced by lead, there would be a hue and cry about the evils of lead and how our rigs refuse to run because there was lead in gasoline... Lead that doesn't burn, lead that doesn't add to the energy content, etc. (yeah,I know about soft valve seats and guides)
>
> Gas is laced with all sorts of chemicals, seasonally. Ethanol is listed on the pump, probably, originally, because the government was proud of how clever they were. The only other information I see is that the pump has been tested and gasoline causes cancer.
> --
> '74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
> Best Wishes,
> George
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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All is well with my Lord
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| Re: [GMCnet] Answers [message #209700 is a reply to message #209696] |
Mon, 03 June 2013 09:09 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Many of the blending agents in gasoline combine with other agents to
produce still other substances. Add heat to the mix, and stuff happens, not
necessarily good stuff, either. Part of the reason that no one in the
government wants to see alcohol blended fuels go away is that it takes 10%
to 20% more of the crapahol to do the same work as puregas. That equates to
10% to 20% more TAX REVENUE for them. Kinda reminds me of the tin/lead
alloy that we know as solder. Tin has a melting or flow state higher than
lead. Lead also has a fairly high melt point. But, when you alloy the two
at a 60/40 blend, you get eutectic solder. it melts at a much lower
temperature that either one of it's components. Also it's putty state is
altered as well. As soon as heat is removed, solder changes state back to a
solid. A 50/50 alloy (body solder) melts at a higher temp, and stays in a
plastic or putty state much longer. Not much difference in alloys, but big
difference in performance. Now, go back to thinking about gasoline blends
and use the same thought process I just gave as an example in solders.
Kinda hurts your brain, huh..
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 Gmc Royale 403
On Jun 3, 2013 6:38 AM, "Howard" <hnielsen2@cox.net> wrote:
> George
> The number one problem I have with Ethanol is this.
> We are burning our food.
> I have spent $'s on replacing fuel lines twice on the GMC rebuilding or
> replacing carburetors on our small engines, weed wakers,chipper.
> I now run them dry before I put them away.
> We live two miles north of I-8 at 2,400 feet
> Not a week goes by without a car fire.
> We have a friend on returning from the desert when his SOB caught on fire.
> Who is blessed to be alive today.
> Cause of fire, rubber fuel lines.
> This guys knows his way around a motor home.
> He owners a R V repair shop.
> What can we do?
> Join WWW.SEMASAN.COM
> Call,email your state,national law makers.
> Yes it helps
> See what Florida did.
> Getting off my soap box.
> Thanks
> Howard
> 26' Canyon Lands
>
>
> All is well with my Lord
>
> On Jun 2, 2013, at 11:03 PM, George Beckman <gbeckman@pggp.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Howard Nielsen wrote on Sun, 02 June 2013 01:07
> >>
> http://t.answers.com/answers/#!/entry/what-is-the-boiling-point-of-gasoline,4ffa26f47af68a84dcf55827/2
> >> Boils between 100 and 400
> >> Howard
> >>
> >> All is well with my Lord
> >
> > thanks, Howard. I had read this article.
> >
> > I guess my questioning of the general loathing of Ethanol on the bird
> feeder is that we know Winter gas boils easier than Summer gas. But winter
> gas does not necessairly have more ethanol.
> >
> > I wonder if the loathing of Ethanol is because we can read about it on
> the pump. The more I read the more I am discovering that ethanol is one of
> many additives to gas. Some additives make gas boil quicker. It may even be
> true that if gasoline is laced with ethanol then can have different
> formulations of additives that cause quick boiling.
> >
> > I am just not convinced ethanol is the only bad guy here.
> >
> > I have a suspicion that if we had even using ethanol for 50 years and it
> suddenly was being replaced by lead, there would be a hue and cry about the
> evils of lead and how our rigs refuse to run because there was lead in
> gasoline... Lead that doesn't burn, lead that doesn't add to the energy
> content, etc. (yeah,I know about soft valve seats and guides)
> >
> > Gas is laced with all sorts of chemicals, seasonally. Ethanol is listed
> on the pump, probably, originally, because the government was proud of how
> clever they were. The only other information I see is that the pump has
> been tested and gasoline causes cancer.
> > --
> > '74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
> > Best Wishes,
> > George
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Answers [message #209703 is a reply to message #209700] |
Mon, 03 June 2013 09:29 |
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hnielsen2
Messages: 1434
Registered: February 2004
Location: Alpine CA
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Jim
You never hurt my brain.
I just read your posting twice.
Oh!
I read everything twice of interest
Thanks
Howard.
All is well with my Lord
On Jun 3, 2013, at 7:09 AM, James Hupy <jamesh1296@gmail.com> wrote:
> Many of the blending agents in gasoline combine with other agents to
> produce still other substances. Add heat to the mix, and stuff happens, not
> necessarily good stuff, either. Part of the reason that no one in the
> government wants to see alcohol blended fuels go away is that it takes 10%
> to 20% more of the crapahol to do the same work as puregas. That equates to
> 10% to 20% more TAX REVENUE for them. Kinda reminds me of the tin/lead
> alloy that we know as solder. Tin has a melting or flow state higher than
> lead. Lead also has a fairly high melt point. But, when you alloy the two
> at a 60/40 blend, you get eutectic solder. it melts at a much lower
> temperature that either one of it's components. Also it's putty state is
> altered as well. As soon as heat is removed, solder changes state back to a
> solid. A 50/50 alloy (body solder) melts at a higher temp, and stays in a
> plastic or putty state much longer. Not much difference in alloys, but big
> difference in performance. Now, go back to thinking about gasoline blends
> and use the same thought process I just gave as an example in solders.
> Kinda hurts your brain, huh..
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Or
> 78 Gmc Royale 403
> On Jun 3, 2013 6:38 AM, "Howard" <hnielsen2@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> George
>> The number one problem I have with Ethanol is this.
>> We are burning our food.
>> I have spent $'s on replacing fuel lines twice on the GMC rebuilding or
>> replacing carburetors on our small engines, weed wakers,chipper.
>> I now run them dry before I put them away.
>> We live two miles north of I-8 at 2,400 feet
>> Not a week goes by without a car fire.
>> We have a friend on returning from the desert when his SOB caught on fire.
>> Who is blessed to be alive today.
>> Cause of fire, rubber fuel lines.
>> This guys knows his way around a motor home.
>> He owners a R V repair shop.
>> What can we do?
>> Join WWW.SEMASAN.COM
>> Call,email your state,national law makers.
>> Yes it helps
>> See what Florida did.
>> Getting off my soap box.
>> Thanks
>> Howard
>> 26' Canyon Lands
>>
>>
>> All is well with my Lord
>>
>> On Jun 2, 2013, at 11:03 PM, George Beckman <gbeckman@pggp.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Howard Nielsen wrote on Sun, 02 June 2013 01:07
>> http://t.answers.com/answers/#!/entry/what-is-the-boiling-point-of-gasoline,4ffa26f47af68a84dcf55827/2
>>>> Boils between 100 and 400
>>>> Howard
>>>>
>>>> All is well with my Lord
>>>
>>> thanks, Howard. I had read this article.
>>>
>>> I guess my questioning of the general loathing of Ethanol on the bird
>> feeder is that we know Winter gas boils easier than Summer gas. But winter
>> gas does not necessairly have more ethanol.
>>>
>>> I wonder if the loathing of Ethanol is because we can read about it on
>> the pump. The more I read the more I am discovering that ethanol is one of
>> many additives to gas. Some additives make gas boil quicker. It may even be
>> true that if gasoline is laced with ethanol then can have different
>> formulations of additives that cause quick boiling.
>>>
>>> I am just not convinced ethanol is the only bad guy here.
>>>
>>> I have a suspicion that if we had even using ethanol for 50 years and it
>> suddenly was being replaced by lead, there would be a hue and cry about the
>> evils of lead and how our rigs refuse to run because there was lead in
>> gasoline... Lead that doesn't burn, lead that doesn't add to the energy
>> content, etc. (yeah,I know about soft valve seats and guides)
>>>
>>> Gas is laced with all sorts of chemicals, seasonally. Ethanol is listed
>> on the pump, probably, originally, because the government was proud of how
>> clever they were. The only other information I see is that the pump has
>> been tested and gasoline causes cancer.
>>> --
>>> '74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
>>> Best Wishes,
>>> George
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
All is well with my Lord
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| Re: [GMCnet] Answers [message #209707 is a reply to message #209703] |
Mon, 03 June 2013 10:01 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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Actually, the true eutectic alloy for solder is 63/37 portions. Eutectic point of any alloy is the mixture proportion which gives the lowest melting temperature.
Mac in OKC
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 3, 2013, at 9:29, "Howard" <hnielsen2@cox.net> wrote:
> Jim
> You never hurt my brain.
> I just read your posting twice.
> Oh!
> I read everything twice of interest
> Thanks
> Howard.
>
>
> All is well with my Lord
>
> On Jun 3, 2013, at 7:09 AM, James Hupy <jamesh1296@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Many of the blending agents in gasoline combine with other agents to
>> produce still other substances. Add heat to the mix, and stuff happens, not
>> necessarily good stuff, either. Part of the reason that no one in the
>> government wants to see alcohol blended fuels go away is that it takes 10%
>> to 20% more of the crapahol to do the same work as puregas. That equates to
>> 10% to 20% more TAX REVENUE for them. Kinda reminds me of the tin/lead
>> alloy that we know as solder. Tin has a melting or flow state higher than
>> lead. Lead also has a fairly high melt point. But, when you alloy the two
>> at a 60/40 blend, you get eutectic solder. it melts at a much lower
>> temperature that either one of it's components. Also it's putty state is
>> altered as well. As soon as heat is removed, solder changes state back to a
>> solid. A 50/50 alloy (body solder) melts at a higher temp, and stays in a
>> plastic or putty state much longer. Not much difference in alloys, but big
>> difference in performance. Now, go back to thinking about gasoline blends
>> and use the same thought process I just gave as an example in solders.
>> Kinda hurts your brain, huh..
>> Jim Hupy
>> Salem, Or
>> 78 Gmc Royale 403
>> On Jun 3, 2013 6:38 AM, "Howard" <hnielsen2@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> George
>>> The number one problem I have with Ethanol is this.
>>> We are burning our food.
>>> I have spent $'s on replacing fuel lines twice on the GMC rebuilding or
>>> replacing carburetors on our small engines, weed wakers,chipper.
>>> I now run them dry before I put them away.
>>> We live two miles north of I-8 at 2,400 feet
>>> Not a week goes by without a car fire.
>>> We have a friend on returning from the desert when his SOB caught on fire.
>>> Who is blessed to be alive today.
>>> Cause of fire, rubber fuel lines.
>>> This guys knows his way around a motor home.
>>> He owners a R V repair shop.
>>> What can we do?
>>> Join WWW.SEMASAN.COM
>>> Call,email your state,national law makers.
>>> Yes it helps
>>> See what Florida did.
>>> Getting off my soap box.
>>> Thanks
>>> Howard
>>> 26' Canyon Lands
>>>
>>>
>>> All is well with my Lord
>>>
>>> On Jun 2, 2013, at 11:03 PM, George Beckman <gbeckman@pggp.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Howard Nielsen wrote on Sun, 02 June 2013 01:07
>>> http://t.answers.com/answers/#!/entry/what-is-the-boiling-point-of-gasoline,4ffa26f47af68a84dcf55827/2
>>>>> Boils between 100 and 400
>>>>> Howard
>>>>>
>>>>> All is well with my Lord
>>>>
>>>> thanks, Howard. I had read this article.
>>>>
>>>> I guess my questioning of the general loathing of Ethanol on the bird
>>> feeder is that we know Winter gas boils easier than Summer gas. But winter
>>> gas does not necessairly have more ethanol.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if the loathing of Ethanol is because we can read about it on
>>> the pump. The more I read the more I am discovering that ethanol is one of
>>> many additives to gas. Some additives make gas boil quicker. It may even be
>>> true that if gasoline is laced with ethanol then can have different
>>> formulations of additives that cause quick boiling.
>>>>
>>>> I am just not convinced ethanol is the only bad guy here.
>>>>
>>>> I have a suspicion that if we had even using ethanol for 50 years and it
>>> suddenly was being replaced by lead, there would be a hue and cry about the
>>> evils of lead and how our rigs refuse to run because there was lead in
>>> gasoline... Lead that doesn't burn, lead that doesn't add to the energy
>>> content, etc. (yeah,I know about soft valve seats and guides)
>>>>
>>>> Gas is laced with all sorts of chemicals, seasonally. Ethanol is listed
>>> on the pump, probably, originally, because the government was proud of how
>>> clever they were. The only other information I see is that the pump has
>>> been tested and gasoline causes cancer.
>>>> --
>>>> '74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
>>>> Best Wishes,
>>>> George
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Answers [message #209710 is a reply to message #209598] |
Mon, 03 June 2013 10:20 |
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SeanKidd
Messages: 747
Registered: June 2012
Location: Northern Neck Virginia
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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fuel temperature * pressure = Vaporlock
dont forget the boiling point of modern gasoline ~10%ethanol is directly proportionate to the pressure, higher the pressue, the higher the boiling point.
The lower the pressure (space between fuel pick-up sock and engine mounted mechanical pump) the lower the boiling point....
this is the same as boiler condensate pumps, you cannot pump >200 degree water, the suction side of the pump drops the pressure and the water will boil (flash steam) and the pump will cavitate=vaporlock
Sean and Stephanie
73 Ex-CanyonLands 26' #317 "Oliver"
Hubler 1-Ton, Quad-Bags, Rear Disc, Reaction Arms, P.Huber TBs, 3.70:1 LSD Honda 6500 inverter gen.
Colonial Travelers
[Updated on: Mon, 03 June 2013 12:40] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Answers [message #209714 is a reply to message #209707] |
Mon, 03 June 2013 10:41 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Should have counted on someone out there to nit pick my imprecise ratios
and proportions. ANYTIME I try to give a quick and dirty response to a
technical subject, you'all will be sure to chime in. I should have learned
better than to do it. My bad. But that said, don't expect anything
different real soon. ( grin ). I guess that means that someone out there at
least reads what I post. After all, the issue was about fuels and what
differing amounts of substances that behave like catalysts do to blended
fuels. No quick answers here, either.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 Gmc Royale 403
On Jun 3, 2013 8:01 AM, "D C _Mac_ Macdonald" <k2gkk@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Actually, the true eutectic alloy for solder is 63/37 portions. Eutectic
> point of any alloy is the mixture proportion which gives the lowest melting
> temperature.
>
> Mac in OKC
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jun 3, 2013, at 9:29, "Howard" <hnielsen2@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > Jim
> > You never hurt my brain.
> > I just read your posting twice.
> > Oh!
> > I read everything twice of interest
> > Thanks
> > Howard.
> >
> >
> > All is well with my Lord
> >
> > On Jun 3, 2013, at 7:09 AM, James Hupy <jamesh1296@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Many of the blending agents in gasoline combine with other agents to
> >> produce still other substances. Add heat to the mix, and stuff happens,
> not
> >> necessarily good stuff, either. Part of the reason that no one in the
> >> government wants to see alcohol blended fuels go away is that it takes
> 10%
> >> to 20% more of the crapahol to do the same work as puregas. That
> equates to
> >> 10% to 20% more TAX REVENUE for them. Kinda reminds me of the tin/lead
> >> alloy that we know as solder. Tin has a melting or flow state higher
> than
> >> lead. Lead also has a fairly high melt point. But, when you alloy the
> two
> >> at a 60/40 blend, you get eutectic solder. it melts at a much lower
> >> temperature that either one of it's components. Also it's putty state is
> >> altered as well. As soon as heat is removed, solder changes state back
> to a
> >> solid. A 50/50 alloy (body solder) melts at a higher temp, and stays in
> a
> >> plastic or putty state much longer. Not much difference in alloys, but
> big
> >> difference in performance. Now, go back to thinking about gasoline
> blends
> >> and use the same thought process I just gave as an example in solders.
> >> Kinda hurts your brain, huh..
> >> Jim Hupy
> >> Salem, Or
> >> 78 Gmc Royale 403
> >> On Jun 3, 2013 6:38 AM, "Howard" <hnielsen2@cox.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> George
> >>> The number one problem I have with Ethanol is this.
> >>> We are burning our food.
> >>> I have spent $'s on replacing fuel lines twice on the GMC rebuilding
> or
> >>> replacing carburetors on our small engines, weed wakers,chipper.
> >>> I now run them dry before I put them away.
> >>> We live two miles north of I-8 at 2,400 feet
> >>> Not a week goes by without a car fire.
> >>> We have a friend on returning from the desert when his SOB caught on
> fire.
> >>> Who is blessed to be alive today.
> >>> Cause of fire, rubber fuel lines.
> >>> This guys knows his way around a motor home.
> >>> He owners a R V repair shop.
> >>> What can we do?
> >>> Join WWW.SEMASAN.COM
> >>> Call,email your state,national law makers.
> >>> Yes it helps
> >>> See what Florida did.
> >>> Getting off my soap box.
> >>> Thanks
> >>> Howard
> >>> 26' Canyon Lands
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> All is well with my Lord
> >>>
> >>> On Jun 2, 2013, at 11:03 PM, George Beckman <gbeckman@pggp.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Howard Nielsen wrote on Sun, 02 June 2013 01:07
> >>>
> http://t.answers.com/answers/#!/entry/what-is-the-boiling-point-of-gasoline,4ffa26f47af68a84dcf55827/2
> >>>>> Boils between 100 and 400
> >>>>> Howard
> >>>>>
> >>>>> All is well with my Lord
> >>>>
> >>>> thanks, Howard. I had read this article.
> >>>>
> >>>> I guess my questioning of the general loathing of Ethanol on the bird
> >>> feeder is that we know Winter gas boils easier than Summer gas. But
> winter
> >>> gas does not necessairly have more ethanol.
> >>>>
> >>>> I wonder if the loathing of Ethanol is because we can read about it on
> >>> the pump. The more I read the more I am discovering that ethanol is
> one of
> >>> many additives to gas. Some additives make gas boil quicker. It may
> even be
> >>> true that if gasoline is laced with ethanol then can have different
> >>> formulations of additives that cause quick boiling.
> >>>>
> >>>> I am just not convinced ethanol is the only bad guy here.
> >>>>
> >>>> I have a suspicion that if we had even using ethanol for 50 years and
> it
> >>> suddenly was being replaced by lead, there would be a hue and cry
> about the
> >>> evils of lead and how our rigs refuse to run because there was lead in
> >>> gasoline... Lead that doesn't burn, lead that doesn't add to the energy
> >>> content, etc. (yeah,I know about soft valve seats and guides)
> >>>>
> >>>> Gas is laced with all sorts of chemicals, seasonally. Ethanol is
> listed
> >>> on the pump, probably, originally, because the government was proud of
> how
> >>> clever they were. The only other information I see is that the pump
> has
> >>> been tested and gasoline causes cancer.
> >>>> --
> >>>> '74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
> >>>> Best Wishes,
> >>>> George
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> GMCnet mailing list
> >>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> GMCnet mailing list
> >>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GMCnet mailing list
> >> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Answers [message #209724 is a reply to message #209714] |
Mon, 03 June 2013 11:07 |
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hahaha ! :-)
Me too. I can't even spell centerifuge, ... or centerpede, or phisics
bdub
-----Original Message-----
From: On Behalf Of James Hupy
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 10:41 AM
Should have counted on someone out there to nit pick my imprecise ratios and
proportions. ANYTIME I try to give a quick and dirty response to a technical
subject, you'all will be sure to chime in. I should have learned better than
to do it. My bad. But that said, don't expect anything different real soon.
( grin ). I guess that means that someone out there at least reads what I
post. After all, the issue was about fuels and what differing amounts of
substances that behave like catalysts do to blended fuels. No quick answers
here, either.
Jim Hupy
On Jun 3, 2013 8:01 AM, "D C _Mac_ Macdonald" wrote:
> Actually, the true eutectic alloy for solder is 63/37 portions.
> Eutectic point of any alloy is the mixture proportion which gives the
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bdub
bdub.net
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| Re: [GMCnet] Answers [message #209728 is a reply to message #209598] |
Mon, 03 June 2013 12:12 |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Wouldn't it make sense that an EFI system (with much higher fuel pressures than a carbureted fuel system) coupled with an in-tank fuel pump would minimize the chances of vapor lock?
Whenever there is ethanol-free fuel available, I try to fill my tank with that mix. Unfortunately, not available in the Chicago area, but can be found in southern Wisconsin (appeals to the boaters who don't want to damage their engines).
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Answers [message #209749 is a reply to message #209700] |
Mon, 03 June 2013 18:08 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
|
Senior Member |
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Our friends in the bureaucracy are rapidly doing away with traditional solder. (For what it's worth, 63/37 is the eutectic point) Take a look at the box your TV or phone or other electronics was shipped in. If it says 'ROHS Compliant" it ain't got any lead in it. Which is basically BS, but them's the Rules. Not easy stuff to work with and expensive, this ROHS compliant solder.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: James Hupy <jamesh1296@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Answers
Many of the blending agents in gasoline combine with other agents to
produce still other substances. Add heat to the mix, and stuff happens, not
necessarily good stuff, either. Part of the reason that no one in the
government wants to see alcohol blended fuels go away is that it takes 10%
to 20% more of the crapahol to do the same work as puregas. That equates to
10% to 20% more TAX REVENUE for them. Kinda reminds me of the tin/lead
alloy that we know as solder. Tin has a melting or flow state higher than
lead. Lead also has a fairly high melt point. But, when you alloy the two
at a 60/40 blend, you get eutectic solder. it melts at a much lower
temperature that either one of it's components. Also it's putty state is
altered as well. As soon as heat is removed, solder changes state back to a
solid. A 50/50 alloy (body solder) melts at a higher temp, and stays in a
plastic or putty state much longer. Not much difference in alloys, but big
difference in performance. Now, go back to thinking about gasoline blends
and use the same thought process I just gave as an example in solders.
Kinda hurts your brain, huh..
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 Gmc Royale 403
On Jun 3, 2013 6:38 AM, "Howard" <hnielsen2@cox.net> wrote:
> George
> The number one problem I have with Ethanol is this.
> We are burning our food.
> I have spent $'s on replacing fuel lines twice on the GMC rebuilding or
> replacing carburetors on our small engines, weed wakers,chipper.
> I now run them dry before I put them away.
> We live two miles north of I-8 at 2,400 feet
> Not a week goes by without a car fire.
> We have a friend on returning from the desert when his SOB caught on fire.
> Who is blessed to be alive today.
> Cause of fire, rubber fuel lines.
> This guys knows his way around a motor home.
> He owners a R V repair shop.
> What can we do?
> Join WWW.SEMASAN.COM
> Call,email your state,national law makers.
> Yes it helps
> See what Florida did.
> Getting off my soap box.
> Thanks
> Howard
> 26' Canyon Lands
>
>
> All is well with my Lord
>
> On Jun 2, 2013, at 11:03 PM, George Beckman <gbeckman@pggp.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Howard Nielsen wrote on Sun, 02 June 2013 01:07
> >>
> http://t.answers.com/answers/#!/entry/what-is-the-boiling-point-of-gasoline,4ffa26f47af68a84dcf55827/2
> >> Boils between 100 and 400
> >> Howard
> >>
> >> All is well with my Lord
> >
> > thanks, Howard. I had read this article.
> >
> > I guess my questioning of the general loathing of Ethanol on the bird
> feeder is that we know Winter gas boils easier than Summer gas. But winter
> gas does not necessairly have more ethanol.
> >
> > I wonder if the loathing of Ethanol is because we can read about it on
> the pump. The more I read the more I am discovering that ethanol is one of
> many additives to gas. Some additives make gas boil quicker. It may even be
> true that if gasoline is laced with ethanol then can have different
> formulations of additives that cause quick boiling.
> >
> > I am just not convinced ethanol is the only bad guy here.
> >
> > I have a suspicion that if we had even using ethanol for 50 years and it
> suddenly was being replaced by lead, there would be a hue and cry about the
> evils of lead and how our rigs refuse to run because there was lead in
> gasoline... Lead that doesn't burn, lead that doesn't add to the energy
> content, etc. (yeah,I know about soft valve seats and guides)
> >
> > Gas is laced with all sorts of chemicals, seasonally. Ethanol is listed
> on the pump, probably, originally, because the government was proud of how
> clever they were. The only other information I see is that the pump has
> been tested and gasoline causes cancer.
> > --
> > '74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
> > Best Wishes,
> > George
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Answers [message #209753 is a reply to message #209749] |
Mon, 03 June 2013 19:04 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
|
Senior Member |
|
|
As Mr Hupy points out, 60/40 vs 63/37 is a quibble. The quibble is in my experience often sufficient enough to make the difference in lifting a pad or run from a cheeep or old PC board and successfully soldering a new part on it.
DOS Tip: If you're gonna repair your Onan board, use the 63/37 alloy.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: Johnny Bridges <jhbridges@ymail.com>
To: "gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org" <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 7:08 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Answers
Our friends in the bureaucracy are rapidly doing away with traditional solder. (For what it's worth, 63/37 is the eutectic point) Take a look at the box your TV or phone or other electronics was shipped in. If it says 'ROHS Compliant" it ain't got any lead in it. Which is basically BS, but them's the Rules. Not easy stuff to work with and expensive, this ROHS compliant solder.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: James Hupy <jamesh1296@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Answers
Many of the blending agents in gasoline combine with other agents to
produce still other substances. Add heat to the mix, and stuff happens, not
necessarily good stuff, either. Part of the reason that no one in the
government wants to see alcohol blended fuels go away is that it takes 10%
to 20% more of the crapahol to do the same work as puregas. That equates to
10% to 20% more TAX REVENUE for them. Kinda reminds me of the tin/lead
alloy that we know as solder. Tin has a melting or flow state higher than
lead. Lead also has a fairly high melt point. But, when you alloy the two
at a 60/40 blend, you get eutectic solder. it melts at a much lower
temperature that either one of it's components. Also it's putty state is
altered as well. As soon as heat is removed, solder changes state back to a
solid. A 50/50 alloy (body solder) melts at a higher temp, and stays in a
plastic or putty state much longer. Not much difference in alloys, but big
difference in performance. Now, go back to thinking about gasoline blends
and use the same thought process I just gave as an example in solders.
Kinda hurts your brain, huh..
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 Gmc Royale 403
On Jun 3, 2013 6:38 AM, "Howard" <hnielsen2@cox.net> wrote:
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
|
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| Re: [GMCnet] Answers [message #209855 is a reply to message #209647] |
Tue, 04 June 2013 18:26 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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60/40 is a common mix for solder. I buy 63/37 and use it most of the time because of its lower melting point. I works better on many things like printed circuit boards.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Answers [message #209882 is a reply to message #209598] |
Tue, 04 June 2013 22:08 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Everything is easy to understand when you know it all comes down to money. States want high fuel price to get the % tax on it and as Jim said the crapahol efficiency loss means more is sold so more tax input to state. And I found out the ROHAS solder is worse for the tech as the higher temps needed cause more flux fumes to inhale.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Answers [message #209895 is a reply to message #209700] |
Wed, 05 June 2013 00:18 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Here you go guys. I posted this last year. The point of this exercise is you want the lowest RVP (Reid Vapor Pressure) number possible in hot weather. The Gov't (EPA) established minimum RVP for every county in the US for May 1 (sometimes June 1) through September 15 for every county in the US (except Kalifornia). You can look up your county in the table and see what is sold where you are.
Also note in the second paragraph third bullet the EXCEPTION of 1.0 PSI allowed for ALCOHOL blended fuels. This is because the RVP fuel when blended with 10% alcohol is much higher and they wanted to push craponol on us anyway.
The gas refiners would love to push and sell higher RVP gasoline because it is cheaper to manufacture. They are allowed to sell it outside of the May 1 through September 15th window.
Different rules apply to the non-attainment areas.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/fuels/gasolinefuels/volatility/standards.htm
A side note for comparison purposes: All aviation gasoline is RVP of 7.0 year round. They can not stand vapor lock when airborne.
Ethanol quote follows:
As gasoline evaporates, volatile organic compounds (VOCs) enter the atmosphere and contribute to ozone formation, a problem that is exacerbated by warmer air temperatures. To address this issue, EPA has promulgated regulations, under section 211(h) of the act, prohibiting the sale of gasoline with a Reid vapor pressure (RVP, a measure of volatility) that exceeds 9.0 psi in “volatility attainment areas” and 7.8 psi in “volatility non-attainment areas.” These standards apply to all persons from June 1 to Sept. 15 and from May 1 through Sept. 15 for all refiners, importers, distributors, resellers and carriers.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/fuels/gasolinefuels/volatility/standards.htm
Ethanol blending quote from the Ethanol Producers Magazine follows:
The act includes an important exception to these RVP limitations, providing that fuel containing “gasoline and 10 percent denatured anhydrous ethanol” can exceed the applicable RVP limitation by 1.0 psi. Congress passed this “One-Pound Waiver” in 1990 to accommodate the gasohol industry’s practice of “splash blending” 10 percent ethanol with conventional gasoline. When 10 percent ethanol is added to conventional 9.0-psi gasoline, the RVP of the mixture will rise to about 10 psi.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Answers [message #209901 is a reply to message #209895] |
Wed, 05 June 2013 01:26 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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Senior Member |
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Y| Ken Burton wrote on Tue, 04 June 2013 22:18 |
Here you go guys.
Also note in the second paragraph third bullet the EXCEPTION of 1.0 PSI allowed for ALCOHOL blended fuels. This is because the RVP fuel when blended with 10% alcohol is much higher and they wanted to push craponol on us anyway.
The gas refiners would love to push and sell higher RVP gasoline because it is cheaper to manufacture. They are allowed to sell it outside of the May 1 through September 15th window. .
.
|
I absolutely agree that E-10 may have a 1.0 psi RVP level. My only point referring to the two paragraphs I am quoting is, just because Ethanol laced gas can be 1.0 psi higher in the RVP rating does not mean ethanol is causing the rise. To me it means they can get away with the cheaper higher RPV gas being blended with ethanol. They start with crummy gas they could not sell because it boils to soon and get to sell it because they put in ethanol.
Ethanol we know because it is on the pump. The other stuff... That is the luck of the draw. Some e-10 may be better than other e-10.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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