Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Fixing Kerry's engine
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| Re: Fixing Kerry's engine [message #208990 is a reply to message #208987] |
Mon, 27 May 2013 19:53   |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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Well I was excited but now I'm just conflicted... 
Got the tranny off and out of the way, pulled the exhaust manifolds and valve covers. Tear down time.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6382/V_013.jpg]
Dang that looks good...oh wait, I cleaned that up last month when I pulled the mainfold to do the crossover block.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6382/V_014.jpg]
All torn down:
[url}http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6382/V_021.jpg][/url]
Well, this is why I'm conflicted. I expected to see a bearing showing copper. The rod bearings were near perfect. Two of the mains looked like this:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6382/V_020.jpg]
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6382/V_019.jpg]
This is what all the bores look like...no ridge at all....
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6382/V_022.jpg]
Cam bearings look a bit iffy. This is probably where the copper came from.
[url}http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6382/V_025.jpg][/url]
I REALLY expected to find a cracked head or blown head gasket but nothing at all. Head gasket was perfect and certainly no obvious issues in the head.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6382/V_026.jpg]
I did find some stuff in the pan but it just looks like baked oil like was in the original turkey tray.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6382/V_027.jpg]
So, what do I know that I didn't know before?
1- I know that this motor would have probably run a long time as it was.
2- I know I had an coolant leak but don't know the source. I'll have the heads pressure tested but it's very possible that it was the intake manifold and I had already fixed the leak before I got the bad news from the oil testing lab. It's also slightly possible the coolant came from the oil cooler in the aluminum radiator but I doubt it. No oil trace in the coolant at all and there would be if it was leaking at a rate to put 4.5% coolant after only 2000 miles.
3- Cam and lifters look perfect.
4- The 403 appears to very sound and an easy overhaul...hone and clean the cylinders, re-ring, hot tank, new bearings all around, have the heads pressure tested, touch up the valves, and reassemble.
5- I'd feel better if there was an obvious problem that was causing the coolant leak. I really, REALLY don't want to go through all this and reinstall the engine only to find I still have a problem.
I spoke with John Beavers this afternoon. He's of the preliminary opinion that the 403 isn't hurt either but reserves judgement until he sees it and can check it out. He's also getting me a price on a full rebuild on one of my Caddy 500's
At the moment I'm thinking I'll take the 403 AND the Caddy down to John in Americus. I trust him much, much more than the local shops. He can have the heads pressure tested and do what needs to be done to them. I have spare 403 heads just in case. If it turns out the 403 needs a complete rebuild, I'll probably go with a Caddy instead.
I'm going to try and catch Ken on the road and get his thoughts. Opinions welcome. 
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
[Updated on: Mon, 27 May 2013 19:55] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fixing Kerry's engine [message #209009 is a reply to message #208990] |
Tue, 28 May 2013 00:51 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Kerry,
Looks like you caught it just in time.
I agree with your plan. John will do you avoid engine.
Ken
On May 27, 2013 5:53 PM, "Kerry Pinkerton" <Pinkertonk@mchsi.com> wrote:
>
>
> Well I was excited but now I'm just conflicted... :?
>
> Got the tranny off and out of the way, pulled the exhaust manifolds and
> valve covers. Tear down time.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6382/V_013.jpg]
>
>
>
> Dang that looks good...oh wait, I cleaned that up last month when I pulled
> the mainfold to do the crossover block.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6382/V_014.jpg]
>
>
> All torn down:
>
> [url}http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6382/V_021.jpg][/url]
>
>
>
> Well, this is why I'm conflicted. I expected to see a bearing showing
> copper. The rod bearings were near perfect. Two of the mains looked like
> this:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6382/V_020.jpg]
>
>
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6382/V_019.jpg]
>
>
>
> This is what all the bores look like...no ridge at all....
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6382/V_022.jpg]
>
>
> Cam bearings look a bit iffy. This is probably where the copper came from.
>
> [url}http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6382/V_025.jpg][/url]
>
>
> I REALLY expected to find a cracked head or blown head gasket but nothing
> at all. Head gasket was perfect and certainly no obvious issues in the
> head.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6382/V_026.jpg]
>
>
> I did find some stuff in the pan but it just looks like baked oil like was
> in the original turkey tray.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6382/V_027.jpg]
>
>
> So, what do I know that I didn't know before?
>
> 1- I know that this motor would have probably run a long time as it was.
> 2- I know I had an coolant leak but don't know the source. I'll have the
> heads pressure tested but it's very possible that it was the intake
> manifold and I had already fixed the leak before I got the bad news from
> the oil testing lab. It's also slightly possible the coolant came from the
> oil cooler in the aluminum radiator but I doubt it. No oil trace in the
> coolant at all and there would be if it was leaking at a rate to put 4.5%
> coolant after only 2000 miles.
> 3- Cam and lifters look perfect.
> 4- The 403 appears to very sound and an easy overhaul...hone and clean the
> cylinders, re-ring, hot tank, new bearings all around, have the heads
> pressure tested, touch up the valves, and reassemble.
>
> I spoke with John Beavers this afternoon. He's of the preliminary opinion
> that the 403 isn't hurt either but reserves judgement until he sees it and
> can check it out. He's also getting me a price on a full rebuild on one of
> my Caddy 500's
>
> At the moment I'm thinking I'll take the 403 AND the Caddy down to John in
> Americus. I trust him much, much more than the local shops. He can have
> the heads pressure tested and do what needs to be done to them. I have
> spare 403 heads just in case. If it turns out the 403 needs a complete
> rebuild, I'll probably go with a Caddy instead.
>
> I'm going to try and catch Ken on the road and get his thoughts. Opinions
> welcome. :d
>
>
> --
> Kerry Pinkerton
>
> North Alabama, near Huntsville,
>
> 77 Eleganza II, "The Lady", 403CI, also a 76 Eleganza being re-bodied as
> an Art Deco car hauler
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Fixing Kerry's engine [message #209033 is a reply to message #208987] |
Tue, 28 May 2013 11:03 |
Larry
Messages: 2875
Registered: January 2004
Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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"1- I know that this motor would have probably run a long time as it was."
Kerry,
Looking at those two mains, I doubt that it would have "run a long time as it was". JMHO but, I think you caught it in the nick of time. My big question is, why did this happen?....what caused it? Is it the presents of antifreeze in the oil that created the issue?
How does the crank look on those two mains? There is quite a little scuffing of those two bearing shells and I wonder if it did anything to the crank. Have you mic'd it yet? IMO, don't put it back together until you find out the source of the antifreeze leak. Pressure test the block also and check all of the gallery plugs to make sure they are in tact. Other than that, the motor looks pretty darn clean inside....that's good news.
It is good that you pulled the motor, IMO it would only get worse on up to failure, and would likely be happening fairly soon.
If you decide to do a Caddy, there are a couple of us that could give you a little information on how to handle the rebuild.
Larry 
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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| Re: Fixing Kerry's engine [message #209116 is a reply to message #208987] |
Wed, 29 May 2013 08:16 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Kerry,
Tearing it down was the right way to do it.....
Both the mains that look bad show signs of lubrication failure. Unfortunately, I can't tell whether this was glycol damage or a real lube loss, but as the related rods look good, I would go with the former.
The bearings look like they are aluminum-lead and if they have not been washed then there is steel backing showing thought in two places. Do I have to say that is not good? But if the crank journal is not damaged, you may be able to go with stock shell there.
Don't fret about the cam bearings, on all American V-8s, they always fatigue and look terrible.
You showed the bore from the bottom and the place you really want to look at is the top of the ring travel. That will tell the most about the cylinder bore condition.
Go for it Guy.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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