| Bogie pin question [message #207863] |
Wed, 15 May 2013 22:16  |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Searching the net yesterday I came upon a web page I had not visited before.. and the owner posted...
"9-2000, Installed new custom made right side bogey pins. Installed new bearings and re-assembled. (New pins do not require removal of bogey housing. Design being tested).
"
Here is the web page...
http://www.rslate.com/gmc/
Has anyone any memory or experience with this GMC owner?
Dennis
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bogie pin question [message #207903 is a reply to message #207863] |
Thu, 16 May 2013 07:41  |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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IIRC, a custom bogey setup was designed by a fellow from Canada. He
replaced the bushings with needle bearings. He talked at length with me,
and then later on, Emery Stora. He refused to divulge any part numbers to
anyone willing to make the investment to produce his design unless it was
named after him and he got royalties from each one sold. I guess at this
point, we'll never find out about this mod until he sells his coach and
someone disects the bogey pins.
Steve F.
On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 8:16 PM, Dennis Sexton <dennisfsexton@aol.com>wrote:
>
>
> Searching the net yesterday I came upon a web page I had not visited
> before.. and the owner posted...
>
> "9-2000, Installed new custom made right side bogey pins. Installed new
> bearings and re-assembled. (New pins do not require removal of bogey
> housing. Design being tested).
> "
>
> Here is the web page...
>
> http://www.rslate.com/gmc/
>
> Has anyone any memory or experience with this GMC owner?
>
> Dennis
> --
> Dennis S
> 73 Painted Desert 230
> Germantown, TN
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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--
Take care,
Steve
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bogie pin question [message #207911 is a reply to message #207903] |
Thu, 16 May 2013 08:30 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Steve,
KenH told me about this mod and this guy and my reaction was GOOD! The following is some scientific wild ass engineering! ;-)
Take few minutes and think of why a "roller" bearing is installed instead of a bushing - reduce friction. How do they reduce
friction - by reducing the contact surface between parts.
My first exposure to needle bearings was on the connecting rod of the 100cc Tecumseh Power Product chain saw engine I had on my Go
Kart 800. I modified that engine until it put out around 12 hp at 14,000 rpm. To spin that fast it HAD to have needle bearings on
the crank end of the conn rod and IIRC it had them on the piston end as well. The crank had ball bearings on both side. Come to
think of it a company called Okrasa (sp?) built a needle bearing crankshaft for VW's back in the day. They cost MEGA bucks.
Now lets look at the bogies, they don't spin at all! As a guesstimate they move in an arc of 25-30 degrees? Why would you care about
friction? You do care about surface area as the load would have to be carried by a lot smaller surface area.
Then one must take into consideration the surfaces that the needle bearing ride on - they need to be harder than the hinges of hell
as compared to bushings. Then there's contamination - needle bearings don't like that AT ALL! It doesn't take much to keep them from
rolling and skid.
John Sharpe pulled a bogie off a coach here in Houston that I will be taking back to Sydney as a spare.
I just took it apart and in my opinion it is just fine for the job it does. I'll bet the engineers that designed it would appreciate
MY approval! ;-)
I noticed that the pins seem to wear on the side opposite of the arm and the lube holes are at the top and bottom. Maybe it would
help if two additional holes were drilled that are 90° from the existing lube holes as that would put grease where the wear seems to
be.
I may be all wet here but that's what I reckon!
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Ferguson
IIRC, a custom bogey setup was designed by a fellow from Canada. He
replaced the bushings with needle bearings. He talked at length with me,
and then later on, Emery Stora. He refused to divulge any part numbers to
anyone willing to make the investment to produce his design unless it was
named after him and he got royalties from each one sold. I guess at this
point, we'll never find out about this mod until he sells his coach and
someone disects the bogey pins.
Steve F.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bogie pin question [message #207913 is a reply to message #207911] |
Thu, 16 May 2013 08:56 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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I thought I still had the details of the needle bearing replacement bogie
pins, but they're not on this computer. The guy who did the mod, and tried
to make a deal with several different people to produce it, was from
Ontario, IIRC. He was, indeed, very hard to deal with. Very reluctant to
divulge any details, as if there was something proprietary about them.
Which there was not, of course.
Basically, he replaced the pin with a bolt through needle bearing packs.
The most interesting facet of the design was that the bearings and bolt
could be R&R'd from the outside. While he claimed to have never needed to
replace the bearings after many miles, that the job could be done in 15
minutes per pin. And that might well be true.
With full knowledge of the objections Rob mentioned to the use of needle
bearings in that application, I tried to prototype the system on a spare
broken bogie I had. After a couple of instructions to "...drill this size
hole there then get back to me...", I told him to give me the whole design
or forget it. He chose to forget it, and so did I.
Using bearing packs, with their hardened inner and outer races, and
included seals, the idea may have merit, especially when they can be
replaced so easily. But one would need to be VERY careful about the design
of the pivot bolt installed from the outside. There's no way for an OEM
pin to come out unless the whole bogie falls off the chassis. Not so with
the out-to-in installed bolt. I'm not sure I'd even be content with safety
wiring them after tightened. And SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE, would inevitably fail
to torque on, install the safety wire or other retention device, and lose a
suspension arm. Imagine what a catastrophe that could cause!
The "Keep it OEM" advocates probably have a good point here. :-)
Ken H.
On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 9:30 AM, Rob Mueller wrote:
> Steve,
>
> KenH told me about this mod and this guy and my reaction was GOOD! The
> following is some scientific wild ass engineering! ;-)
>
> Take few minutes and think of why a "roller" bearing is installed instead
> of a bushing - reduce friction. How do they reduce
> friction - by reducing the contact surface between parts.
...
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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