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| Balancing beads [message #207682] |
Tue, 14 May 2013 10:43  |
stick miller
Messages: 1036
Registered: March 2010
Location: Americus, Georgia
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I bought new tires 3 weeks ago and had 4 oz of soft pellets (from Walmart) put in each tire. On the 800 mile round trip to Bean Station I experenced significant vibration at around 60 MPH. Less vibration under 60 and less over 65.
Today I just came from my tire shop having the balancing beads removed from my front tires and going to conventional wheel weights. The coach drives fine again. I've only had the front two tires done, but will have the other 4 done shortly.
Before removing the beads I had the tires spun balanced. One was grossly misbalanced. In all fairness, I don't think the spin balancer got up enough speed to do a true balance, but the tires were way off.
With no beads one tire was almost perfect with a small weight on the back side of the tire. With the other I needed weights on the front and the back. Both balance out perfectly now.
I just can't figure why the beads didn't work. I used the exact same product and the same amount on my Royale without a problem.
Not poo-pooing the idea of balance beads...it just didn't work for me this time.
Stick Miller
'78 Royale - "White Trash" - she left me for another man
'76 Eleganza - "Cousin Eddie" Sold
'84 Bluebird Wanderlodge - "Past Tents"
Americus, GA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Balancing beads [message #207699 is a reply to message #207682] |
Tue, 14 May 2013 11:33  |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Stick,
More data required:
1) Do you have aluminum or steel wheels?
2) What brand and size tire did you have installed?
3) Was it the same shop that put balancing beads / installed weights?
4) What is the total amount of lead weights installed on the wheels?
Note: you may have to look on the inside rim lip as well as the outside.
Some additional comments below interspersed in your message.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Stick Miller
I bought new tires 3 weeks ago and had 4 oz of soft pellets (from Walmart) put in each tire. On the 800 mile round trip to Bean
Station I experenced significant vibration at around 60 MPH. Less vibration under 60 and less over 65.
THE VIBRATION OCCURRED BETWEEN 60 TO 65?
Today I just came from my tire shop having the balancing beads removed from my front tires and going to conventional wheel weights.
The coach drives fine again. I've only had the front two tires done, but will have the other 4 done shortly.
Before removing the beads I had the tires spun balanced. One was grossly misbalanced. In all fairness, I don't think the spin
balancer got up enough speed to do a true balance, but the tires were way off.
IF IT WAS GROSSLY MISBALANCED HOW FAR OFF WAS IT?
With no beads one tire was almost perfect with a small weight on the back side of the tire. With the other I needed weights on the
front and the back. Both balance out perfectly now.
IF YOU NEEDED WEIGHTS ON THE FRONT AND BACK THAT TIRE YOU MIGHT WANT TO RELEGATE IT TO THE SPARE AS IT COULD BE DEFECTIVE!
I just can't figure why the beads didn't work. I used the exact same product and the same amount on my Royale without a problem.
BECAUSE THE ONE TIRE WAS MORE THAN OUT OF BALANCE THAN FOUR OUNCES.
Not poo-pooing the idea of balance beads...it just didn't work for me this time.
BOTH DOUBLE TROUBLE AND THE BLUE STREAK USE EQUAL BALANCING POWDER, IT'S DESIGNED TO BALANCE TIRES NOT SHOOT OUT OF A BB GUN!
--
Stick Miller
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Balancing beads [message #207704 is a reply to message #207699] |
Tue, 14 May 2013 11:58 |
stick miller
Messages: 1036
Registered: March 2010
Location: Americus, Georgia
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Rob - I don't know all the answers to your questions. We have a hot dog place here in Americus that serves up a great weenie, but I don't want to know how they are made. Having said that, here are some things I do know.
1) Do you have aluminum or steel wheels?
Alcoa aluminum
2) What brand and size tire did you have installed?
Brand - Delta. Size 225/75 R 16 - E load rating
3) Was it the same shop that put balancing beads / installed weights? Si
I got an answer off line that said I should have used 6 oz per tire but I used 4 before.
I just don't remember what the numbers are. (see hot dog above) One tire required a very small weight. .025? The other required 2 larg weights on the outside and one on the inside. I could go out and look but I'm having a cold beer and a ham sandwich for lunch.
I only bought six tires so I will need to keep this one on the road. The ride is fine now.
RE: BB's - that is Ken's idea. Worked great in "White Trash" but not so in this thus-far-unnamed Eleganza. The powder can foul up valve stems.
Just what the world needs - an Aussie comedian. 
Stick Miller
'78 Royale - "White Trash" - she left me for another man
'76 Eleganza - "Cousin Eddie" Sold
'84 Bluebird Wanderlodge - "Past Tents"
Americus, GA
[Updated on: Tue, 14 May 2013 12:01] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Balancing beads [message #207705 is a reply to message #207682] |
Tue, 14 May 2013 12:05 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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| Stick Miller wrote on Tue, 14 May 2013 08:43 |
I bought new tires 3 weeks ago and had 4 oz of soft pellets (from Walmart) put in each tire. ...
...
Before removing the beads I had the tires spun balanced. One was grossly misbalanced. In all fairness, I don't think the spin balancer got up enough speed to do a true balance, but the tires were way off. ...
...
Not poo-pooing the idea of balance beads...it just didn't work for me this time.
|
I understand that the beads work better when the tires are being rotated against something, not just spun in the air. (Even though I have seen demos with a clear tube being spun in the air.) So this would mean most balance machines would say the beads CAUSE an imbalance.
I have the AirSoft (Walmart) pellets in the tires on my "user" coach. They work fairly well.
I also have them in the winter tires for my Sidekick. I am not as impressed with them there. I notice that I need to get up to speed for the balancing action to start. ... not very good for stop and go driving but OK for highway use.... or how I use the GMC.
My conclusion is that the AirSoft beads are good for highway use rigs and big tire 4x4's with threads that get "stuff" stuck in them. (They self rebalance as the "stuff" is collected and released by the tire.) But the cheap man's tire beads (Airsoft) not really good for "normal" use. If you want to use tire beads in a stop and go application, go with a "true" tire bead product with the sticky clumping action that keeps them in place when stopped. (You do not get what you do not pay for...)
NOW, why did Stick have problems with the AirSoft beads in GMC use?
I am not sure... Is 4 oz per tire enough?
I'd have to find my notes to say what I put in each, but I did the math and counted out the weight what I wanted and measured with a measuring cup. I think it was about 1/2 cup of the light weight beads in each GMC tire. Something tells me that is more than 4 oz. But would need to do the math... or find my notes! 
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Balancing beads [message #207710 is a reply to message #207704] |
Tue, 14 May 2013 12:22 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Stick,
Then how about an American comedienne?
"Oh, never mind." ;-)
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Stick Miller
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 11:59 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Balancing beads
Rob - I don't know all the answers to your questions. We have a hot dog place here in Americus that serves up a great weenie, but I
don't want to know how they are made.
I got an answer off line that said I should have used 6 oz per tire but I used 4 before.
I just don't remember what the numbers are. (see hot dog above) One tire required a very small weight. .025? The other required 2
larg weights on the outside and one on the inside. I could go out and look but I'm having a cold beer and a ham sandwich for lunch.
I only bought six tires so I will need to keep this one on the road. The ride is fine now.
RE: BB's - that is Ken's idea. Worked great in "White Trash" but not so in this thus-far-unnamed Eleganza. The powder can foul up
valve stems.
Just what the world needs - an Aussie comedian. :)
--
Stick Miller
'78 Royale - she left me for another man
'76 Eleganza
Americus, Georgia
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Balancing beads [message #207747 is a reply to message #207682] |
Tue, 14 May 2013 20:29 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
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Senior Member |
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| Stick Miller wrote on Tue, 14 May 2013 10:43 |
...Before removing the beads I had the tires spun balanced. One was grossly misbalanced. In all fairness, I don't think the spin balancer got up enough speed to do a true balance, but the tires were way off. ...
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You can't spin balance tires with the beads in them. The machine will always show them as out of balance, even if they smooth out on the road. I believe that bit of info is on the sites where they sell genuine balancing beads.
What amount of weight did you end up with on the wheel? If more than 4 ounces, that would explain why 4 ounces of beads couldn't compensate. Most of the time 4 ounces is plenty, but if the wheel is 6 ounces out, then it will take at least 6 ounces of weights or beads to balance it.
Weights are better than beads if you can afford to have your tires professionally balanced, as the tires are balanced at all speeds. With beads, they don't distribute and balance until you get up over about 35 MPH.
FYI, I have 4 ounces of airsoft pellets in all 6 of my GMC tires and don't have a problem.
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| Re: Balancing beads [message #207763 is a reply to message #207682] |
Wed, 15 May 2013 00:00 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020
Registered: November 2010
Location: Hot AZ desert
Karma: 0
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If you do not know exactly how a hot dog is made then it should not be consumed!
Please send your hot dogs in to the LAB before typing the work HOTDOG on this forum.
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Balancing beads [message #207915 is a reply to message #207705] |
Thu, 16 May 2013 09:18 |
Ron77
Messages: 91
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
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I recently had new tires installed on my Beaver Monterey. 2:95-85 x22.5 Michelins. Camping World recommends sand to balance them.
I had the wheels balanced three times at a truck tire shop with the old tires and they used stick on weights. It always had vibrations.
Now, it takes some miles but after the sand has had a chance to locate where needed, it's much smoother than it ever was, from when I picked it up at the factory.
But, each time the coach stops, the balance process has to start over, so it works great on the SOB because it gets mostly long distance runs between stops.
Ron Johnson
On May 14, 2013, at 10:05 AM, Mike Miller <m000035@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Stick Miller wrote on Tue, 14 May 2013 08:43
>> I bought new tires 3 weeks ago and had 4 oz of soft pellets (from Walmart) put in each tire. ...
>>
>> ...
>> Before removing the beads I had the tires spun balanced. One was grossly misbalanced. In all fairness, I don't think the spin balancer got up enough speed to do a true balance, but the tires were way off. ...
>>
>> ...
>> Not poo-pooing the idea of balance beads...it just didn't work for me this time.
>
>
> I understand that the beads work better when the tires are being rotated against something, not just spun in the air. (Even though I have seen demos with a clear tube being spun in the air.) So this would mean most balance machines would say the beads CAUSE an imbalance.
>
> I have the AirSoft (Walmart) pellets in the tires on my "user" coach. They work fairly well.
>
> I also have them in the winter tires for my Sidekick. I am not as impressed with them there. I notice that I need to get up to speed for the balancing action to start. ... not very good for stop and go driving but OK for highway use.... or how I use the GMC.
>
> My conclusion is that the AirSoft beads are good for highway use rigs and big tire 4x4's with threads that get "stuff" stuck in them. (They self rebalance as the "stuff" is collected and released by the tire.) But the cheap man's tire beads (Airsoft) not really good for "normal" use. If you want to use tire beads in a stop and go application, go with a "true" tire bead product with the sticky clumping action that keeps them in place when stopped. (You do not get what you do not pay for...)
>
> NOW, why did Stick have problems with the AirSoft beads in GMC use?
>
> I am not sure... Is 4 oz per tire enough?
>
> I'd have to find my notes to say what I put in each, but I did the math and counted out the weight what I wanted and measured with a measuring cup. I think it was about 1/2 cup of the light weight beads in each GMC tire. Something tells me that is more than 4 oz. But would need to do the math... or find my notes! :twisted:
>
>
> --
> Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
> (#1)'73 26' exPainted D. -- (#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
> http://m000035.blogspot.com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Balancing beads [message #207978 is a reply to message #207915] |
Thu, 16 May 2013 20:16 |
John Sharpe
Messages: 489
Registered: February 2006
Location: Texas
Karma: 1
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| Quote: |
I bought new tires 3 weeks ago and had 4 oz of soft pellets (from Walmart) put in each tire.......
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The equal chart says 5oz. I know when you read the chart you come up with 3. But, when you read all the notes it says to add 2oz for tires rated over 10ply. Don't ask me how I discovered this. I called equal and they confirmed this. Some tires are better balanced than others so less could work. BTW I've been cautioned not to put any extra in as that causes other problems.
So.... Stick, just add another oz to the tires with the beads in them.
John Sharpe
Humble,TX
'78 Eleganza TBI
'89 Spectrum 2000 MPI V-10
'40 Ford Panel Delivery TPI
johnasharpe@gmail.com
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| Re: Balancing beads [message #230034 is a reply to message #207747] |
Sat, 16 November 2013 16:06 |
Donovan-formerly Jase386
Messages: 139
Registered: January 2009
Location: Greenville SC
Karma: 0
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which size Airsoft Pellets are you using? There is a whole shelf of them at walmart of all different densities, sizes and weights.
Donovan, Greenville SC
1975 Eleganza II
81,500 miles
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| Re: Balancing beads [message #230051 is a reply to message #230036] |
Sat, 16 November 2013 20:11 |
jtblank
Messages: 237
Registered: June 2007
Location: Tulare, CA
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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To make this even more confusing, I wonder why Equal and Dyna beads say to remove the existing weights.... if the tire was close to being balanced with weights shouldn't the addition of balance beads make it even more balanced?
Any thoughts?
John Blankenship
'76 Palm Beach
Tulare, CA
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| Re: Balancing beads [message #230068 is a reply to message #230051] |
Sat, 16 November 2013 22:46 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| jtblank wrote on Sat, 16 November 2013 20:11 |
To make this even more confusing, I wonder why Equal and Dyna beads say to remove the existing weights.... if the tire was close to being balanced with weights shouldn't the addition of balance beads make it even more balanced?
Any thoughts?
|
That also has been my thought, but I never tried it. I was thinking about trying that on my next set of tires. Have them balanced and then add 4 oz of beads. If there is a problem I can simply remove the wheel weights.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Balancing beads [message #230074 is a reply to message #207682] |
Sun, 17 November 2013 02:11 |
Donovan-formerly Jase386
Messages: 139
Registered: January 2009
Location: Greenville SC
Karma: 0
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that's what I was going to do as well when I add the beads.
mine are currently balanced as well as the shop says they can get it, but its like riding a wash board. so I was hoping the beads inside the tires would help more.
Donovan, Greenville SC
1975 Eleganza II
81,500 miles
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| Re: [GMCnet] Balancing beads [message #230080 is a reply to message #230074] |
Sun, 17 November 2013 07:09 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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When I first installed Counteract many years ago, I removed "all" of the
external weights. A year or more later I found one more big one (2 oz?) on
the inside of one rim. I removed it -- couldn't tell any difference
afterward.
Ken H.
On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 3:11 AM, jase386 <jase386@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> that's what I was going to do as well when I add the beads.
>
> mine are currently balanced as well as the shop says they can get it, but
> its like riding a wash board. so I was hoping the beads inside the tires
> would help more.
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Balancing beads [message #230083 is a reply to message #230080] |
Sun, 17 November 2013 08:26 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Ken Henderson wrote on Sun, 17 November 2013 07:09 |
When I first installed Counteract many years ago, I removed "all" of the
external weights. A year or more later I found one more big one (2 oz?) on
the inside of one rim. I removed it -- couldn't tell any difference
afterward.
Ken H.
|
Are you confirming that our idea should work?
I personally do not see any down side of doing this. You start with a nearly perfect balanced tire and are just making minor dynamic changes with the beads.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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