Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Preparing the toad (Advice on base plates, tow bars, etc.)
| Preparing the toad [message #207449] |
Sun, 12 May 2013 08:11  |
stick miller
Messages: 1036
Registered: March 2010
Location: Americus, Georgia
Karma: 0
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I am contemplating flat towing our 2004 VW Jetta TDI with a 5 speed manual transmission. Blue Ox makes a base plate and adapter for my Demco Tow bar but I'm reluctant to take on a project such as this with my mentor on a 5 month trip.
I got some prices to install the plate, adaptor and to wire the car that ranged in the $1100 to $1250 price range. That includes the parts, labor and all.
The base plate is right at $400 and the adapter is, I believe, about $150. Throw in some wiring and a light kit and you can see that the labor is about $600.
I probably could save some money buying a used Blue Ox tow bar so I wouldn't have to buy the adapter for the Demco.
Even with this, I still have not addressed the toad brakes.
I just wondered if anyone else has had this done and how these prices seem.
Stick Miller
'78 Royale - "White Trash" - she left me for another man
'76 Eleganza - "Cousin Eddie" Sold
'84 Bluebird Wanderlodge - "Past Tents"
Americus, GA
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| Re: Preparing the toad [message #207456 is a reply to message #207449] |
Sun, 12 May 2013 09:40  |
gbarrow2
Messages: 765
Registered: February 2004
Location: Lake Almanor, Ca./ Red Bl...
Karma: 3
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Stick,
Price seems high. But prices for these kinds of specialty things always seem high to me. Probably not 6 hours labor involved. What's the going labor rate around Americus?
Find a local independent mechanic and get a quote- buy the equipment and have the independent install. It's not brain surgery.
Gene Barrow
Lake Almanor, Ca.
1976 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Preparing the toad [message #207457 is a reply to message #207449] |
Sun, 12 May 2013 09:40 |
Nelson Wright
Messages: 147
Registered: May 2004
Karma: 0
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Stick,
Have you checked with VW to see if that car is flat towable? I was going to flat tow my 2000 VW Passat until the VW people said it would screw up the ABS.
Nelson Wright
Orlando FL
78 Royale rear bath
On May 12, 2013, at 9:11 AM, Stick Miller wrote:
>
>
> I am contemplating flat towing our 2004 VW Jetta TDI with a 5 speed manual transmission. Blue Ox makes a base plate and adapter for my Demco Tow bar but I'm reluctant to take on a project such as this with my mentor on a 5 month trip.
>
> I got some prices to install the plate, adaptor and to wire the car that ranged in the $1100 to $1250 price range. That includes the parts, labor and all.
>
> The base plate is right at $400 and the adapter is, I believe, about $150. Throw in some wiring and a light kit and you can see that the labor is about $600.
>
> I probably could save some money buying a used Blue Ox tow bar so I wouldn't have to buy the adapter for the Demco.
>
> Even with this, I still have not addressed the toad brakes.
>
> I just wondered if anyone else has had this done and how these prices seem.
>
> --
> Stick Miller
> '78 Royale - she left me for another man
> '76 Eleganza
> Americus, Georgia
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Preparing the toad [message #207465 is a reply to message #207449] |
Sun, 12 May 2013 10:28 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Well, I took the cheeeep out. My '91 Jetta is light enough that I don't have to address brakes. Since its bumper uses a cellular plastic crush zone in front of the steel beam, I could and did mount tow clips on the beam itself which protrude through the plastic. $52 for the towbar and clips, plus a couple of hours to modify the plastic portion of the bumper and outer cover. In '91. VW fused most of the lghts seperately before the light switch, so as long as the switch is off, one can simply take a $5 'trailer wiring kit' from WalMart and connect it directly to the wiring harness in the trunk where it's visible. Remember to cap the trailer plug when not in use, it will have exposed hot connections whebn the lights are on.
Also, remember when you get ready to tow regardless the hookup used, be SURE to insert the ignition key, turn it on, then turn it off BUT DO NOT REMOVE IT. Check to be sure this leaves the steering wheel unlocked.
--johnny
From: Stick Miller <stickmiller@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2013 9:11 AM
Subject: [GMCnet] Preparing the toad
I am contemplating flat towing our 2004 VW Jetta TDI with a 5 speed manual transmission. Blue Ox makes a base plate and adapter for my Demco Tow bar but I'm reluctant to take on a project such as this with my mentor on a 5 month trip.
I got some prices to install the plate, adaptor and to wire the car that ranged in the $1100 to $1250 price range. That includes the parts, labor and all.
The base plate is right at $400 and the adapter is, I believe, about $150. Throw in some wiring and a light kit and you can see that the labor is about $600.
I probably could save some money buying a used Blue Ox tow bar so I wouldn't have to buy the adapter for the Demco.
Even with this, I still have not addressed the toad brakes.
I just wondered if anyone else has had this done and how these prices seem.
--
Stick Miller
'78 Royale - she left me for another man
'76 Eleganza
Americus, Georgia
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Preparing the toad [message #207473 is a reply to message #207449] |
Sun, 12 May 2013 11:26 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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| Stick Miller wrote on Sun, 12 May 2013 06:11 |
...
I got some prices to install the plate, adaptor and to wire the car that ranged in the $1100 to $1250 price range. That includes the parts, labor and all.
The base plate is right at $400 and the adapter is, I believe, about $150. Throw in some wiring and a light kit and you can see that the labor is about $600. ...
... I just wondered if anyone else has had this done and how these prices seem.
|
The prices seem to be in line with what I have been seeing. I have noticed that of the three methods of bringing a car with you behind a motorhome, (flat tow, tow dolly and car trailer) there isn't much difference in price. (As long as we are talking low end car trailers.) Each method has it's benefits and issues but we are only talking about price here. About the only ways you can reduce the price is if you can find a used set up that meets your needs, or reduce your "needs."
Flat towing is very dependent on what you want to tow. Make sure you know what your specific vehicle needs to not self-destruct as it is following you down the road. There is a reason that you only see a few types of vehicles used as towds. -- They are the easiest to make work.
If you can, try to avoid going into the towd's wiring for the tail lights. At least for the brake and turn signals. You have feedback or voltage drop issues from any diodes. Making the lights dimmer than they could be.
If there is room, I like adding an additional bulb to the stock tail lights. There are several good ways, but what is "best" would depend on the proposed towd's tail light housings.
I am OK with tapping into the towd running/marker lights, as any feed-back issues are minimal (Just leave the light switch in the towd off.)
I'll not go into brake systems, I am not very knowledgeable about them, but I do know that adequate brakes are a good thing. 
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Preparing the toad [message #207474 is a reply to message #207457] |
Sun, 12 May 2013 11:51 |
stick miller
Messages: 1036
Registered: March 2010
Location: Americus, Georgia
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| Nelson Wright wrote on Sun, 12 May 2013 10:40 |
Stick,
Have you checked with VW to see if that car is flat towable? I was going to flat tow my 2000 VW Passat until the VW people said it would screw up the ABS.
|
Well, I've had some mixed messages on this but Blue Ox makes a plate for the car. It is a manual transmission and has over 100,000 miles on it. Long out of warranty. I can't see how the brakes would be affected.
I had a tow dolly and found it to be a lot of work, but probably better than spending all this money. I think I paid $200 or $250 for the dolly and sold it for the same. Kinda wish I had it back.
Stick Miller
'78 Royale - "White Trash" - she left me for another man
'76 Eleganza - "Cousin Eddie" Sold
'84 Bluebird Wanderlodge - "Past Tents"
Americus, GA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Preparing the toad [message #207475 is a reply to message #207474] |
Sun, 12 May 2013 12:29 |
Nelson Wright
Messages: 147
Registered: May 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Stick,
I agree that I could not see how towing my 5 speed manual would be a problem. But in talking with an experienced VW he tried to explain how the sensors on the brake system would get confused. I'm not sure if the brakes get confused , but I was. Any way we discussed the possibility of pulling a fuse to protect the system, but there were no assurances that would work. Solved the problem by getting a Smart Car for a toad which eliminated the need for additional brakes and no bulky Blue Ox plate. A triple, double throw switch takes care of the lights.
Forget the tow dolly and get a trailer. At least the trailer can be backed up and also can be used for other chores :-)
HTH,
Nelson Wright
Orlando FL
78 Royale rear bath
On May 12, 2013, at 12:51 PM, Stick Miller wrote:
>
>
> Nelson Wright wrote on Sun, 12 May 2013 10:40
>> Stick,
>> Have you checked with VW to see if that car is flat towable? I was going to flat tow my 2000 VW Passat until the VW people said it would screw up the ABS.
>
>
> Well, I've had some mixed messages on this but Blue Ox makes a plate for the car. It is a manual transmission and has over 100,000 miles on it. Long out of warranty. I can't see how the brakes would be affected.
>
> I had a tow dolly and found it to be a lot of work, but probably better than spending all this money. I think I paid $200 or $250 for the dolly and sold it for the same. Kinda wish I had it back.
> --
> Stick Miller
> '78 Royale - she left me for another man
> '76 Eleganza
> Americus, Georgia
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Preparing the toad [message #207489 is a reply to message #207475] |
Sun, 12 May 2013 18:39 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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I've got a trailer - it's heavier than the Toadstone. Electric brakes though - which it needs. Somewhere along ther line, I'll load the Ranger up on it and tow it to a show and see how it does.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: Nelson Wright <f25ccapt@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2013 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Preparing the toad
Stick,
I agree that I could not see how towing my 5 speed manual would be a problem. But in talking with an experienced VW he tried to explain how the sensors on the brake system would get confused. I'm not sure if the brakes get confused , but I was. Any way we discussed the possibility of pulling a fuse to protect the system, but there were no assurances that would work. Solved the problem by getting a Smart Car for a toad which eliminated the need for additional brakes and no bulky Blue Ox plate. A triple, double throw switch takes care of the lights.
Forget the tow dolly and get a trailer. At least the trailer can be backed up and also can be used for other chores :-)
HTH,
Nelson Wright
Orlando FL
78 Royale rear bath
On May 12, 2013, at 12:51 PM, Stick Miller wrote:
>
>
> Nelson Wright wrote on Sun, 12 May 2013 10:40
>> Stick,
>> Have you checked with VW to see if that car is flat towable? I was going to flat tow my 2000 VW Passat until the VW people said it would screw up the ABS.
>
>
> Well, I've had some mixed messages on this but Blue Ox makes a plate for the car. It is a manual transmission and has over 100,000 miles on it. Long out of warranty. I can't see how the brakes would be affected.
>
> I had a tow dolly and found it to be a lot of work, but probably better than spending all this money. I think I paid $200 or $250 for the dolly and sold it for the same. Kinda wish I had it back.
> --
> Stick Miller
> '78 Royale - she left me for another man
> '76 Eleganza
> Americus, Georgia
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Preparing the toad [message #207505 is a reply to message #207489] |
Sun, 12 May 2013 21:18 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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Senior Member |
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VW claims you can't tow their sticks but there are lots of people doing it. I've towed a 2001 Jetta, 2004 Golf and now a 2006 Golf, flat behind our converted bus. When I tried to pin the VW pros down at SEMA a few years ago, their reasoning was that the transmission 'might' pop into gear while towing and over-rev the engine. Afraid that explanation is about as lame as anything I've heard out of a pro.
Anyway, take it for what its worth but towing them hasn't been a problem for us in 100,000+ miles.
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] Preparing the toad [message #207571 is a reply to message #207475] |
Mon, 13 May 2013 12:26 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| Nelson Wright wrote on Sun, 12 May 2013 10:29 |
Stick,
I agree that I could not see how towing my 5 speed manual would be a problem. But in talking with an experienced VW he tried to explain how the sensors on the brake system would get confused. I'm not sure if the brakes get confused , but I was. ...
|
I am not sure how the APS could effect the ability to flat tow, but I am fairly sure why car manufactures and dealers will not give you a straight answer is due to liability issues. They do not want to sound uniformed by saying "WE DO NOY KNOW", but they do NOT want to tell you it is "OK." I wish they would just say: "We do not test our cars for being able to flat towed and will not cover any damages due to being flat towed."
When talking transmissions, the ability to flat tow depends on how the transmission is lubricated. Most (but not all) manuals are splash lubricated and automatics use pumps. If pump lubed, the pump needs to be driven. Logic would tell you that any splash lubed manual tranny can be flat towed without limits... not true. It depends on what is doing the "splashing." Here is a site discussing the Suzuki Sidekick/Geo Tracker transfer case. A splash lubed "gearbox." <http://www.fixkick.com/tranny/xfr-case/transfer-case.html>
OBTW: That is a good site for anyone with a "Track-Kick."
Most automatics are driven from the input shaft and those can not be flat towed. Honda and Saturn have flat tow-able autos... but I understand some of the newer ones are not. GM and now even Ford now have a few auto trans that are flat tow-able. FMCA puts out a list each year, but really doesn't go into the WHY.
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... Forget the tow dolly and get a trailer. At least the trailer can be backed up and also can be used for other chores.
|
I am starting to lean to a car trailer, for the two reasons you have mentioned plus the ability to use almost any vehicle, including an Audi quattro, as a 'towd."
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Preparing the toad [message #207625 is a reply to message #207571] |
Mon, 13 May 2013 19:25 |
stick miller
Messages: 1036
Registered: March 2010
Location: Americus, Georgia
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Oh, by the way, I went ahead and had the guy order the base plate and the adaptors. We will take the car in next week for the install and be done with it.
I looked at some other toads but the Jetta is a known entity and is in excellent condition. It is probably worth more to me as a toad than as a trade in.
After all...it's only money! 
Stick Miller
'78 Royale - "White Trash" - she left me for another man
'76 Eleganza - "Cousin Eddie" Sold
'84 Bluebird Wanderlodge - "Past Tents"
Americus, GA
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