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Engines & Drive trains [message #206206]

Sun, 28 April 2013 09:30

bryant374

Messages: 563
Registered: May 2004
Location: Pleasant Valley, NY 12569

Karma: 1

Senior Member

Here are some of the ideas that GMC Engineering was thinking of when the original engine/drive train would be phased out:

Transverse engine:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/miscellaneous-bryant-stuff/p48892-transverse-engine-454.html
#313

New "T" Drive:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/miscellaneous-bryant-stuff/p48894-new-drive-train-sketch.html
#314

Rear engine & drive:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/miscellaneous-bryant-stuff/p48896-rear-drive-sketch-by-e.html
#315

Bill Bryant
PO 1976~PB (owned 34 years)
1914 Ford (owned 70 years)
1965 Corvette (owned 39 years)
GMC Motorhome History

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Re: [GMCnet] Engines & Drive trains [message #206209 is a reply to message #206206]

Sun, 28 April 2013 10:11

USAussie

Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia

Karma: 6

Senior Member

Bill,

Interesting info!

Note the change in the rear bogies on the rear drive version; they're both trailing link!

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/miscellaneous-bryant-stuff/p48896-rear-drive-sketch-by-e.html#315

Regards,
Rob M.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Bryant

Here are some of the ideas that GMC Engineering was thinking of when the original engine/drive train would be phased out:

Transverse engine:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/miscellaneous-bryant-stuff/p48892-transverse-engine-454.html
#313

New "T" Drive:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/miscellaneous-bryant-stuff/p48894-new-drive-train-sketch.html
#314

Rear engine & drive:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/miscellaneous-bryant-stuff/p48896-rear-drive-sketch-by-e.html
#315

Bill

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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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Re: [GMCnet] Engines & Drive trains [message #206210 is a reply to message #206209]

Sun, 28 April 2013 10:47

C Boyd

Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006

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Senior Member

Rob: I understand that this is only a rendering and not a detailed sketch
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/miscellaneous-bryant-stuff/p48896-rear-drive-sketch-by-e.html#315
but with different bogie arraingements on the other side?, the angles of the axles, and the lack of slip joints makes just as much sence as this to me.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p48898-circuit-diagram-1.html

Robert Mueller wrote on Sun, 28 April 2013 11:11

C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee

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Re: [GMCnet] Engines & Drive trains [message #206214 is a reply to message #206210]

Sun, 28 April 2013 11:09

Keith V

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Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN

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I'm sure it's just showing two possibilities, not expected configurations

I do like the dual trailing arms!

Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com

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Re: [GMCnet] Engines & Drive trains [message #206220 is a reply to message #206209]

Sun, 28 April 2013 12:21

Ken Henderson

Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA

Karma: 9

Senior Member

On the starboard side. On the port side, they've added track stabilizers
ala Roberts, but to a central mid-chassis pivot. Kinda tells us something,
huh?

Ken H.

On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Rob Mueller wrote:

> Bill,
>
> Interesting info!
>
> Note the change in the rear bogies on the rear drive version; they're both
> trailing link!
>
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/miscellaneous-bryant-stuff/p48896-rear-drive-sketch-by-e.html#315
>
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www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach

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Re: [GMCnet] Engines & Drive trains [message #206225 is a reply to message #206210]

Sun, 28 April 2013 12:38

USAussie

Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia

Karma: 6

Senior Member

Chuck,

The trailing arms are probably what the engineers wanted, the reworked original suspension is what they figger'd the bean counters
would pay for! ;-)

Regards,
Rob

PS - I'm in trouble that electrical schematic makes sense to me!

-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Boyd

Rob: I understand that this is only a rendering and not a detailed sketch
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/miscellaneous-bryant-stuff/p48896-rear-drive-sketch-by-e.html#315
but with different bogie arraingements on the other side?, the angles of the axles, and the lack of slip joints makes just as much
sence as this to me.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p48898-circuit-diagram-1.html

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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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Re: [GMCnet] Engines & Drive trains [message #206236 is a reply to message #206210]

Sun, 28 April 2013 14:17

A Hamilto

Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011

Karma: 39

Senior Member

C Boyd wrote on Sun, 28 April 2013 10:47

...

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/500/circuit_diagram_1_.jpg

...

Onan control board? Mine has a rat instead of a squirrel.

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Re: [GMCnet] Engines & Drive trains [message #206298 is a reply to message #206220]

Mon, 29 April 2013 01:43

sgltrac

Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011

Karma: 1

Senior Member

Where oh where would you put the holding tanks?

Sully
77 royale
Seattle

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 28, 2013, at 10:21 AM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> On the starboard side. On the port side, they've added track stabilizers
> ala Roberts, but to a central mid-chassis pivot. Kinda tells us something,
> huh?
>
> Ken H.
>
> On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Rob Mueller wrote:
>
>> Bill,
>>
>> Interesting info!
>>
>> Note the change in the rear bogies on the rear drive version; they're both
>> trailing link!
>>
>>
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/miscellaneous-bryant-stuff/p48896-rear-drive-sketch-by-e.html#315
>>
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Sully 77 Royale basket case. Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list) Seattle, Wa.

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Re: [GMCnet] Engines & Drive trains [message #206309 is a reply to message #206298]

Mon, 29 April 2013 06:31

tphipps

Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL

Karma: 9

Senior Member

Interesting the sketch showed both sets of rear wheels being powered.
Holding tanks? You want holding tanks? Not power plant design problem. LOL.
Campground to campground cruiser?
Tom, MS II

2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552 KA4CSG

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Re: [GMCnet] Engines & Drive trains [message #206345 is a reply to message #206309]

Mon, 29 April 2013 12:43

Keith V

Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN

Karma: 0

Senior Member

tphipps wrote on Mon, 29 April 2013 06:31

Interesting the sketch showed both sets of rear wheels being powered.
Holding tanks? You want holding tanks? Not power plant design problem. LOL.
Campground to campground cruiser?
Tom, MS II

isn't that called Holy water?

Oh wait, wrong diagram

Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com

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Re: [GMCnet] Engines & Drive trains [message #206375 is a reply to message #206345]

Mon, 29 April 2013 22:49

hal kading

Messages: 642
Registered: February 2004
Location: Las Cruces NM

Karma: 4

Senior Member

Ken Henderson,

Did you see this? Two pages.

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/miscellaneous-bryant-stuff/p42694-rear-main-thrust-failure.html

Happened to notice it when looking at the other pictures.

Hal Kading Buskirk Stretch Las Cruces NM

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Re: [GMCnet] Engines & Drive trains [message #206376 is a reply to message #206375]

Mon, 29 April 2013 23:01

A Hamilto

Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011

Karma: 39

Senior Member

Hal Kading wrote on Mon, 29 April 2013 22:49

I wonder if Manny has seen the first two pages of that album.

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Re: [GMCnet] Engines & Drive trains [message #206385 is a reply to message #206375]

Tue, 30 April 2013 05:13

Ken Henderson

Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA

Karma: 9

Senior Member

Hal,

Thanks. Yes, I saw that while I was in the midst of thrust bearing
failures. I could find no evidence of the sort of wear mentioned.
Unfortunately, I can't really examine down inside the converter. I really
should send the one implicated in both failures off to someone with no dog
in the fight for teardown/analysis.

Ken H.

On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 11:49 PM, Hal Kading wrote:

>
>
> Ken Henderson,
>
> Did you see this? Two pages.
>
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/miscellaneous-bryant-stuff/p42694-rear-main-thrust-failure.html
>
> Happened to notice it when looking at the other pictures.
>
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www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach

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Re: [GMCnet] Engines & Drive trains [message #206390 is a reply to message #206385]

Tue, 30 April 2013 06:57

USAussie

Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia

Karma: 6

Senior Member

Ken,

If you decide to have the torque convertor checked this is the company to send it to. They have a glowing reputation from the guys
in the Greater Midwest Classics.

http://www.midwestconverter.com/contact.php

Regards,
Rob M.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Henderson

Hal,

Thanks. Yes, I saw that while I was in the midst of thrust bearing
failures. I could find no evidence of the sort of wear mentioned.
Unfortunately, I can't really examine down inside the converter. I really
should send the one implicated in both failures off to someone with no dog
in the fight for teardown/analysis.

Ken H.

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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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Re: [GMCnet] Engines & Drive trains [message #206418 is a reply to message #206375]

Tue, 30 April 2013 11:21

emerystora

Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004

Karma: 13

Senior Member

This information has been floating around for many years. The engine builders blame the transmission rebuilders and vice versa.

Dick Paterson's approach to the problem has been to modify the thrust bearing by cutting two vertical grooves in the face of it where it touches the crankshaft and filing thumb nail shaped depressions at the top of the grooves. The depressions act as funnels to catch oil and allow it to run down the grooves and lubricate the bearing surface. This modification works well and seems to eliminate the thrust bearing failure problem.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO

On Apr 29, 2013, at 9:49 PM, Hal Kading wrote:

>
>
> Ken Henderson,
>
> Did you see this? Two pages.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/miscellaneous-bryant-stuff/p42694-rear-main-thrust-failure.html
>
> Happened to notice it when looking at the other pictures.
>
> Hal Kading Buskirk Stretch Las Cruces NM
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Re: [GMCnet] Engines & Drive trains [message #206422 is a reply to message #206418]

Tue, 30 April 2013 11:46

kerry pinkerton

Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al

Karma: 15

Senior Member

emerystora wrote on Tue, 30 April 2013 11:21

...
Dick Paterson's approach to the problem has been to modify the thrust bearing by cutting two vertical grooves in the face of it where it touches the crankshaft and filing thumb nail shaped depressions at the top of the grooves. The depressions act as funnels to catch oil and allow it to run down the grooves and lubricate the bearing surface. This modification works well and seems to eliminate the thrust bearing failure problem....

Emery, I'm not quite following this. Can you sketch what you're talking about and post a photo of the sketch (Emery draw Very Happy

)

Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L

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Re: [GMCnet] Engines & Drive trains [message #206424 is a reply to message #206422]

Tue, 30 April 2013 12:11

A Hamilto

Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011

Karma: 39

Senior Member

Kerry Pinkerton wrote on Tue, 30 April 2013 11:46

Emery, I'm not quite following this. Can you sketch what you're talking about and post a photo of the sketch (Emery draw Very Happy

)

I think part of the mod is pointed out here:

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/gmc-misc/p18490.html

You can also see three vertical grooves in the bearings, but there is no mention of the grooves in the captioning.

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Re: [GMCnet] Engines & Drive trains [message #206425 is a reply to message #206390]

Tue, 30 April 2013 12:53

Ken Henderson

Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA

Karma: 9

Senior Member

Yeah, that's where I got the converter I'm running now. I haven't bothered
to check what they'd charge for a TDA.

Ken H.

On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 7:57 AM, Rob Mueller wrote:

> Ken,
>
> If you decide to have the torque convertor checked this is the company to
> send it to. They have a glowing reputation from the guys
> in the Greater Midwest Classics.
>
> http://www.midwestconverter.com/contact.php
>
>
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Ken Henderson
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www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach

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Re: [GMCnet] Engines & Drive trains [message #206427 is a reply to message #206422]

Tue, 30 April 2013 13:13

USAussie

Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia

Karma: 6

Senior Member

G'day,

Since I have a Paterson engine disassembled here in Houston I figger'd I'd save Emery some time and trouble:

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6364-455-olds-thrust-bearings.html

Steve Ferguson's photo has been posted for that mod.

Then there's this mod:

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6286-thrust-bearing-modification.html

Take your pick!

Regards,
Rob M.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kerry Pinkerton

Emery, I'm not quite following this. Can you sketch what you're talking about and post a photo of the sketch (Emery draw :d )
--
Kerry

emerystora wrote on Tue, 30 April 2013 11:21
> ...
> Dick Paterson's approach to the problem has been to modify the thrust bearing by cutting two vertical grooves in the face of it
where it touches the crankshaft and filing thumb nail shaped depressions at the top of the grooves. The depressions act as funnels
to catch oil and allow it to run down the grooves and lubricate the bearing surface. This modification works well and seems to
eliminate the thrust bearing failure problem....

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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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Re: Engines & Drive trains [message #206429 is a reply to message #206206]

Tue, 30 April 2013 13:31

Chr$

Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

Karma: 1

Senior Member

Interesting. Bearings that say "Dick" on them.

Ducks!

-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ

77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"

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