Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » How do I identify a Caddy (500ci or 472???)
| How do I identify a Caddy [message #205422] |
Sun, 21 April 2013 13:24  |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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A friend in Mn is giving me one of two he has. A 500 or 472. He doesn't remember which is which. Is there a number that tells what it is and where is such number?
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: How do I identify a Caddy [message #205428 is a reply to message #205422] |
Sun, 21 April 2013 16:07  |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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All I have is the engine, tranny, and diff. The Wiki will work but WHERE is the engine number on the block? These things are kind of hard to get to and I'd prefer not to have to clean the whole block until I find the number.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: How do I identify a Caddy [message #205431 is a reply to message #205422] |
Sun, 21 April 2013 16:30 |
Larry
Messages: 2875
Registered: January 2004
Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
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| Kerry Pinkerton wrote on Sun, 21 April 2013 13:24 |
A friend in Mn is giving me one of two he has. A 500 or 472. He doesn't remember which is which. Is there a number that tells what it is and where is such number?
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Kerry,
All Eldos from 70-76 had the 500 and can be identified by the clearance notches in the oil pan for the FD and right axle shaft. See this:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g3378-cadillac-500-oil-pans.html
But, 68 and 69 eldos had the 472. So do you at least know what year car they came from?
If it has the RWD pan, unfortunately there is no external way to determine the difference between the 472 and the 500. The only difference between the 472 and 500 in any given year is the stroke of the crank, rods and pistons. Block casting #s, and head casting #s for 472 and 500 are the same. So, the only sure way is to pull the oil pan off and check the casting # on the crank. Most 500 cranks have a casting # ending in '93 or '94, next to the 4th main journal. Most 472's have a casting # ending in '24, found on the 3rd counterweight.
Another way without removing the pan is to remove the spark plugs, and using the timing marks, rotate the crank and measure the stroke. Using a piece of welding rod or coat hanger, at TDC on the timing marks, insert the wire into the plug hole and mark the wire at TDC. rotate it 1/2 turn and mark at BDC. The 472 has a 4 1/16th stroke and the 500 has about a 4 5/16th stoke.
Another hitch in the Id is knowing the actual year. You want to know this because the 1970 472 and 500's had a 10.5/1 CR. Unless you don't mind running premium fuel at to today's prices, you are better off with any of the 71-76 500's. To help with IDing, 68-74 engines had a points type distributor. (actually there were some 74's with HEI.) Late 74 thru 76 had HEI. But king of them all in 76 some of the Eldo 500's...had EFI.
There are other internal differences between the 472/500's, but that is info that you don't need to know now.
HTH
Larry 
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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| Re: [GMCnet] How do I identify a Caddy [message #205444 is a reply to message #205428] |
Sun, 21 April 2013 18:40 |
Kosier
Messages: 834
Registered: February 2008
Karma: 1
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Kerry,
Since you have the entire powertrain, it's obviously an Eldo. 68 & 69 were
472s. They only have a single drain plug in the oil pan. 68 to 70 are high
compression. Not good. 71 to 76 Eldos are all 500s.
On the back of the block, just to the right of the upper bellhousing bolt is
the engine number. Hard to see in the rough casting. First digit is a 6
that denotes Cadillac, second digit is the last number of the model year
Fifth digit is an R or S, S is the 500. Then the last 6 digits of the VIN.
This is 71 and later. A quick look at the tag on the tranny will give the
year if it's original. The best choice by far is the 75 & 76. Better
stuff.
You need a 68 to 72 front motor mount or flim-flam Henderson into making one
of his custom ones. Drill two holes, rearrange the wires, fabricate two
exhaust pipes and smoke the front tires. Love it!
Oh yes, I have spare parts. (not for me, for the Caddy)
Gary Kosier
77 PB with Caddy 500
Newark, Oh
-----Original Message-----
From: Kerry Pinkerton
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 5:07 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] How do I identify a Caddy
All I have is the engine, tranny, and diff. The Wiki will work but WHERE is
the engine number on the block? These things are kind of hard to get to and
I'd prefer not to have to clean the whole block until I find the number.
--
Kerry Pinkerton
North Alabama, near Huntsville,
77 Eleganza II, "The Lady", 403CI, also a 76 Eleganza being re-bodied as an
Art Deco car hauler
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| Re: [GMCnet] How do I identify a Caddy [message #205450 is a reply to message #205436] |
Sun, 21 April 2013 19:44 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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here is Larry's bible of links
maybe there will be some help here
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/3619/larry_s_cad_links.pdf
I will try to get them all together -- some day--
gene
On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 2:47 PM, Larry <weidnerl@wwt.net> wrote:
>
>
> OH, a couple more things, motor mounts for the 500 changed in 73. So, if
> you have motor mounts still on the motor, this may help identify the year.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g3375-cadillac-to-gmc-motor-mounts.html
>
> Maybe look at this if you know what the donor car looked like.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g3558-identifying-cad-500-donor-cars.html
> --
> Larry :)
> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
> Menomonie, WI.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] How do I identify a Caddy [message #205467 is a reply to message #205450] |
Sun, 21 April 2013 22:29 |
Larry
Messages: 2875
Registered: January 2004
Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Mr ERFisher wrote on Sun, 21 April 2013 19:44 |
here is Larry's bible of links
maybe there will be some help here
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/3619/larry_s_cad_links.pdf
I will try to get them all together -- some day--
gene
On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 2:47 PM, Larry <weidnerl@wwt.net> wrote:
>
>
> OH, a couple more things, motor mounts for the 500 changed in 73. So, if
> you have motor mounts still on the motor, this may help identify the year.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g3375-cadillac-to-gmc-motor-mounts.html
>
> Maybe look at this if you know what the donor car looked like.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g3558-identifying-cad-500-donor-cars.html
> --
> Larry
> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
> Menomonie, WI.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Wow Gene,
Didn't know that you archived this...Thanks!!
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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| Re: [GMCnet] How do I identify a Caddy [message #205468 is a reply to message #205467] |
Sun, 21 April 2013 22:33 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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yes
well
I am going to put up a 500 page,
then you can add to it as you see fit
you are "mr.cad"
gene
On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 8:29 PM, Larry <weidnerl@wwt.net> wrote:
>
>
> Mr ERFisher wrote on Sun, 21 April 2013 19:44
> > here is Larry's bible of links
> >
> > maybe there will be some help here
> > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/3619/larry_s_cad_links.pdf
> >
> > I will try to get them all together -- some day--
> >
> > gene
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 2:47 PM, Larry <weidnerl@wwt.net> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > OH, a couple more things, motor mounts for the 500 changed in 73. So,
> if
> > > you have motor mounts still on the motor, this may help identify the
> year.
> > >
> > >
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g3375-cadillac-to-gmc-motor-mounts.html
> > >
> > > Maybe look at this if you know what the donor car looked like.
> > >
> > >
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g3558-identifying-cad-500-donor-cars.html
> > > --
> > > Larry :)
> > > 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
> > > Menomonie, WI.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> > Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> > -------
> > http://gmcmotorhome.info/
> > Alternator Protection Cable
> > http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> Wow Gene,
> Didn't know that you archived this...Thanks!!
> --
> Larry :)
> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
> Menomonie, WI.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: How do I identify a Caddy [message #205469 is a reply to message #205422] |
Sun, 21 April 2013 22:35 |
Cadillackeeper
Messages: 464
Registered: October 2012
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Any which way you go your lucky.I am not really sure why most everywhere I frequent
people tend to shy from the high compression/10-1.They all go for the 8-1.The only
pro I see is the gas.Power is worth the mileage in my opinion.
77 455 Elaganza II and 67 Animal, Built 500 Powered Eldo
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| Re: [GMCnet] How do I identify a Caddy [message #205471 is a reply to message #205444] |
Sun, 21 April 2013 22:41 |
Larry
Messages: 2875
Registered: January 2004
Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
|
Senior Member |
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| Kosier wrote on Sun, 21 April 2013 18:40 |
Kerry,
Since you have the entire powertrain, it's obviously an Eldo. 68 & 69 were
472s. They only have a single drain plug in the oil pan. 68 to 70 are high
compression. Not good. 71 to 76 Eldos are all 500s.
On the back of the block, just to the right of the upper bellhousing bolt is
the engine number. Hard to see in the rough casting. First digit is a 6
that denotes Cadillac, second digit is the last number of the model year
Fifth digit is an R or S, S is the 500. Then the last 6 digits of the VIN.
This is 71 and later. A quick look at the tag on the tranny will give the
year if it's original. The best choice by far is the 75 & 76. Better
stuff.
You need a 68 to 72 front motor mount or flim-flam Henderson into making one
of his custom ones. Drill two holes, rearrange the wires, fabricate two
exhaust pipes and smoke the front tires. Love it!
Oh yes, I have spare parts. (not for me, for the Caddy)
Gary Kosier
77 PB with Caddy 500
Newark, Oh
-----Original Message-----
From: Kerry Pinkerton
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 5:07 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] How do I identify a Caddy
All I have is the engine, tranny, and diff. The Wiki will work but WHERE is
the engine number on the block? These things are kind of hard to get to and
I'd prefer not to have to clean the whole block until I find the number.
--
Kerry Pinkerton
North Alabama, near Huntsville,
77 Eleganza II, "The Lady", 403CI, also a 76 Eleganza being re-bodied as an
Art Deco car hauler
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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Well...there ya go...more good information I didn't know about. Thanks
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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| Re: [GMCnet] How do I identify a Caddy [message #205539 is a reply to message #205469] |
Mon, 22 April 2013 17:39 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Anthony,
I kinda agree with you, however, one must consider a lot of the folks around here are on fixed incomes and the price difference
between regular and premium makes a difference to them.
BTW there's a Caddy 500 sitting in my shop in Sydney that has a 10.5 to 1 CR which will be run on AutoGas (65% LPG 355 Butane / 99
Octane) or Premium Petrol / 99 Octane.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony ezzo
Any which way you go your lucky.I am not really sure why most everywhere I frequent
people tend to shy from the high compression/10-1.They all go for the 8-1.The only
pro I see is the gas.Power is worth the mileage in my opinion.
--
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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