Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] GM Small Blocks
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] GM Small Blocks [message #204725 is a reply to message #204723] |
Mon, 15 April 2013 09:51   |
JimGunther
Messages: 228
Registered: March 2007
Location: West Haven, CT
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Agree - That motor is a honey.
.....and - thanks to electronics - it can run as a 4 cylinder motor. New Covette can run 30-plus MPG!!!
I keep looking for a 454 with this kind of technology. That said, I'll bet if someone could make a 6 or 7 speed transmission work in the GMC, a modern 350 truck motor could do the job, no?
Jim Gunther
www.LotusV6.com
now former owner - ;(
73 GMC-II 2600
by Explorer
[Updated on: Mon, 15 April 2013 09:51] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] GM Small Blocks [message #204728 is a reply to message #204725] |
Mon, 15 April 2013 10:15 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
|
Senior Member |
|
|
If you stop and think about it, the GMC spends a LOT of time with the
engine turning at 2400 rpm or less with the throttle plates in wide open or
nearly wide open position. IF THE GEARING REMAINS THE SAME, any replacement
engine will have to do the same thing. If you install one of these High
zoot engines in place of the Olds, you better figure some way to get rid of
at least twice as much heat as the Olds will produce. The piston loading on
an Olds is very high and that is why they knock out rod bearings with
some frequency. Modern engines are not designed to have that degree of
piston loads at that rpm, and their longevity will suffer the same or worse
fate than the Olds. The diesels ARE designed for that type of piston
loading, and their rpm range fits well with the GMC gearing. They just
stink and rattle, and the fuel cost per gallon is greater, as is the repair
costs. Ya pay's yer money, and ya takes yer choice, I guess. If you do an
engine swap in a GMC, make sure that you think it through. When you are
completely done and debugged, what results should be better than the Olds,
or you have wasted your money and effort. I have done many Engine swaps
throughout my life, starting with a Chrysler Hemi into a 46 Ford, A 303
0lds Rocket into a 38 Olds, A 324 Olds into a 51 Chev, a 57 Olds J2 into a
55 olds super 88 Holiday, Ford flathead into a 48 willys Jeepster, and my
current projects, a 5.0 H.O. Ford small block into a Willys Jeepster, and a
455 Olds with a turbo 400 into a 55 Olds 88. A couple of them turned out
O.K. and several did not. The 46 Ford with the Hemi was a miserable Bas*&%d
to drive. 8 Stromberg 97's on a log manifold combined with a chet herbert
roller tappet cam made it a real handful. Would not do that one again. But
we learn, some of us. (GRIN)
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 7:51 AM, Jim Gunther <JgmcG@riskmanagementsearch.com
> wrote:
>
>
> Agree - That motor is a honey.
>
> .....and - thanks to electronics - it can run as a 4 cylinder motor. New
> Covette can run 30-plus MPG!!!
>
> I keep looking for a 454 with this kind of technology. That said, I'll be
> if someone could make a 6 or 7 speed transmission work in the GM, a modern
> 350 truck motor could do the job, no?
> --
> Jim Gunther
> www.LotusV6.com
>
> now former owner - ;(
>
> 73 GMC-II 2600
> by Explorer
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] GM Small Blocks [message #204736 is a reply to message #204732] |
Mon, 15 April 2013 12:51 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Material science has improved a lot over the years, and things like the oil squirters keep the pistons cooler, you would think, and better alloys that can deal with the heat.
Are these engines really any hotter? Plastic intakes on everything these days stay cool to the touch, would melt on my 455...
Steve's comment about the dry sump install is very intriguing. Solves a big problem. A custom ground off and replaced bell housing on the tranny solves some other ones.
Today's mills are just plain built to last longer, not the typical 4 year loan duration of the 70's. I gladly thank Japan for that.
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] GM Small Blocks [message #204739 is a reply to message #204736] |
Mon, 15 April 2013 13:26 |
JimGunther
Messages: 228
Registered: March 2007
Location: West Haven, CT
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
What he said.
I refuse to believe that a modern engine with a modern transmission and engine management package can't work better than the "ole 455".
I'm not an engineer nor a particularly talented mechanic but, can't imagine proper gearing alone wouldn't go a long way to solving many of the "load issues" we enjoy.
Granted, the Jims and The Mannys are on-their-own (That is, Detroit's engineers are not going to spend Zillion$ to address the problems) but, I HOPE they might be able to adapt something from another application (FWD Truck or 4-WD Truch -without the rear drive) that COULD work for the GMC - without costing $10s of Thousands of dollars.
| Chr$ wrote on Mon, 15 April 2013 13:51 |
Material science has improved a lot over the years, and things like the oil squirters keep the pistons cooler, you would think, and better alloys that can deal with the heat.
Are these engines really any hotter? Plastic intakes on everything these days stay cool to the touch, would melt on my 455...
Steve's comment about the dry sump install is very intriguing. Solves a big problem. A custom ground off and replaced bell housing on the tranny solves some other ones.
Today's mills are just plain built to last longer, not the typical 4 year loan duration of the 70's. I gladly thank Japan for that.
|
Jim Gunther
www.LotusV6.com
now former owner - ;(
73 GMC-II 2600
by Explorer
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] GM Small Blocks [message #204742 is a reply to message #204739] |
Mon, 15 April 2013 13:50 |
Ronald Pottol
Messages: 505
Registered: September 2012
Location: Redwood City, California
Karma: -2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Well, sure, if you are going to build 10,000 of them. Heck, as retrofit
kits for the GMCs, you could mostly dodge smog certification. But building
10 of them? Quite another matter. Best case I can think of would be to get
some owners to commit to funding some sort of R&D effort for some short run
manufacturing.
Ron
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Jim Gunther <
JgmcG@riskmanagementsearch.com> wrote:
>
>
> What he said.
>
> I refuse to believe that a modern engine with a modern transmission and
> engine management package can't work better than the "ole 455".
>
> I'm not an engineer nor a particularly talented mechanic but, can't
> imagine proper gearing alone wouldn't go a long way to solving many of the
> "load issues" we enjoy.
>
> Granted, the Jims and The Mannys are on-their-own (That is, Detroit's
> engineers are not going to spend Zillion$ to address the problems) but, I
> HOPE they might be able to adapt something from another application (FWD
> Truck or 4-WD Truch -without the rear drive) that COULD work for the GMC -
> without costing $10s of Thousands of dollars.
>
>
> Chr$ wrote on Mon, 15 April 2013 13:51
> > Material science has improved a lot over the years, and things like the
> oil squirters keep the pistons cooler, you would think, and better alloys
> that can deal with the heat.
> >
> > Are these engines really any hotter? Plastic intakes on everything these
> days stay cool to the touch, would melt on my 455...
> >
> > Steve's comment about the dry sump install is very intriguing. Solves a
> big problem. A custom ground off and replaced bell housing on the tranny
> solves some other ones.
> >
> > Today's mills are just plain built to last longer, not the typical 4
> year loan duration of the 70's. I gladly thank Japan for that.
>
>
> --
> Jim Gunther
> www.LotusV6.com
>
> now former owner - ;(
>
> 73 GMC-II 2600
> by Explorer
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Plato seems wrong to me today.
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
1973 26' GM outfitted
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] GM Small Blocks [message #204747 is a reply to message #204742] |
Mon, 15 April 2013 15:23 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Yep, what He said. In a nutshell, that is what it would take.
| Ronald Pottol wrote on Mon, 15 April 2013 11:50 |
Well, sure, if you are going to build 10,000 of them. Heck, as retrofit
kits for the GMCs, you could mostly dodge smog certification. But building
10 of them? Quite another matter. Best case I can think of would be to get
some owners to commit to funding some sort of R&D effort for some short run
manufacturing.
Ron
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Jim Gunther <
JgmcG@riskmanagementsearch.com> wrote:
>
>
> What he said.
>
> I refuse to believe that a modern engine with a modern transmission and
> engine management package can't work better than the "ole 455".
>
> I'm not an engineer nor a particularly talented mechanic but, can't
> imagine proper gearing alone wouldn't go a long way to solving many of the
> "load issues" we enjoy.
>
> Granted, the Jims and The Mannys are on-their-own (That is, Detroit's
> engineers are not going to spend Zillion$ to address the problems) but, I
> HOPE they might be able to adapt something from another application (FWD
> Truck or 4-WD Truch -without the rear drive) that COULD work for the GMC -
> without costing $10s of Thousands of dollars.
>
>
> Chr$ wrote on Mon, 15 April 2013 13:51
> > Material science has improved a lot over the years, and things like the
> oil squirters keep the pistons cooler, you would think, and better alloys
> that can deal with the heat.
> >
> > Are these engines really any hotter? Plastic intakes on everything these
> days stay cool to the touch, would melt on my 455...
> >
> > Steve's comment about the dry sump install is very intriguing. Solves a
> big problem. A custom ground off and replaced bell housing on the tranny
> solves some other ones.
> >
> > Today's mills are just plain built to last longer, not the typical 4
> year loan duration of the 70's. I gladly thank Japan for that.
>
>
> --
> Jim Gunther
> www.LotusV6.com
>
> now former owner - ;(
>
> 73 GMC-II 2600
> by Explorer
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Plato seems wrong to me today.
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] GM Small Blocks [message #204780 is a reply to message #204723] |
Mon, 15 April 2013 21:49 |
Craig Lechowicz
Messages: 541
Registered: October 2006
Location: Waterford, MI
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I could be wrong, but I bet there are less than 12 people in the world that would know how to do do the engine computer calibration work required to adapt that LT1 tuned for a 3,500 lb. Corvette with a 6 - 8 speed transmission to an 11,000 lb. coach with a 3 speed transmission. I don't remember the specifics, but I think Dave Lenzi spent untold months on computer work on his engine, and it didn't have cam phasers, variable valve timing, and DIRECT injection, all of which are quite new to pushrod engines.
Craig Lechowicz
'77 Kingsley, Waterford, MI
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] GM Small Blocks [message #204789 is a reply to message #204736] |
Tue, 16 April 2013 07:19 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
|
Senior Member |
|
|
One of the positives from emission control requirements whether Japanese or anyone elase'sis the better built engine. In order to hold to the required standard for 50K miles, materials and tolerances are much better. Consequently, you get a better mill in the bargain.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
________________________________
From: Chris Choffat <cchoffataz@yahoo.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2013 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] GM Small Blocks
Material science has improved a lot over the years, and things like the oil squirters keep the pistons cooler, you would think, and better alloys that can deal with the heat.
Are these engines really any hotter? Plastic intakes on everything these days stay cool to the touch, would melt on my 455...
Steve's comment about the dry sump install is very intriguing. Solves a big problem. A custom ground off and replaced bell housing on the tranny solves some other ones.
Today's mills are just plain built to last longer, not the typical 4 year loan duration of the 70's. I gladly thank Japan for that.
--
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley Featuring: 455, Power Drive, 3:21, Rockwell, Jim B QJET, Qbag. Now for Sale
2010 Nomad 24 Ft Travel Trailer
Photosite: Chrisc "It has Begun"
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] GM Small Blocks [message #204865 is a reply to message #204723] |
Tue, 16 April 2013 18:46 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Assuming my 97 Tahoe (350 SBC with sequential CPI, trailer tow 3.73) with enclosed tandem 22' trailer and Big block A body in tow weighs about the same as the GMC, I'll stick with the stock 455. Feels a lot more composed on grades, even with 3.07. Or we all buy into the Ford Ecoboost V6 and figure how to fit that as according to the Mike Rowe videos its absolutely indestructible.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] GM Small Blocks [message #204870 is a reply to message #204780] |
Tue, 16 April 2013 19:41 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
| Craig Lechowicz wrote on Mon, 15 April 2013 20:49 |
I could be wrong, but I bet there are less than 12 people in the world that would know how to do do the engine computer calibration work required to adapt that LT1 tuned for a 3,500 lb. Corvette with a 6 - 8 speed transmission to an 11,000 lb. coach with a 3 speed transmission. I don't remember the specifics, but I think Dave Lenzi spent untold months on computer work on his engine, and it didn't have cam phasers, variable valve timing, and DIRECT injection, all of which are quite new to pushrod engines.
|
You are correct, but Dave's problems were more or less solved with collaboration with a GMC engineer and owner who does this everyday. BTW, this is the same engineer who rebuilds steering gears now since Dave is backing out a bit. I wouldn't rule out the small blocks as a doable retrofit. Dave spent a lot of time on the 8.1 but I've always felt the newer small blocks were more suitable. The latest generation is even more attractive.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
[Updated on: Tue, 16 April 2013 19:41] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] GM Small Blocks [message #204871 is a reply to message #204865] |
Tue, 16 April 2013 19:46 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
| JohnL455 wrote on Tue, 16 April 2013 17:46 |
Assuming my 97 Tahoe (350 SBC with sequential CPI, trailer tow 3.73) with enclosed tandem 22' trailer and Big block A body in tow weighs about the same as the GMC, I'll stick with the stock 455. Feels a lot more composed on grades, even with 3.07. Or we all buy into the Ford Ecoboost V6 and figure how to fit that as according to the Mike Rowe videos its absolutely indestructible.
|
The ecoboost is a great engine but really no more durable than any engine available from the big 3. Ford has done a masterfull job promoting it and in trucks it does deliver. In passenger cars it is proving to be underdelivering. Remeber that ecoboost is a marketing name and the execution across models varies greatly--some great, some not so great.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] GM Small Blocks [message #204888 is a reply to message #204871] |
Tue, 16 April 2013 22:23 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Well, I have the 3.5L "eco-boost" V-6 in my 2012 Flex.
It is rated at 355 hp and has a nice fat torque curve.
I don't know about its longevity, but it sure does move
my rather heavy "ute" down the road in a big hurry!
It's the same engine used in the F-series truck, Taurus
SHO, and new for 2013 Explorer Sport. I don't know if
the California Highway Patrol Explorers are using that
engine, but it would definitely make sense to me.
I LIKE it!
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ~ TZE166V101966 ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
______________
*[ ]~~~[][ ][|\
*--OO--[]---O-*
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: NEXT2POOL@AOL.COM
> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 19:46:02 -0500
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] GM Small Blocks
>
>
>
> JohnL455 wrote on Tue, 16 April 2013 17:46
> > Assuming my 97 Tahoe (350 SBC with sequential CPI, trailer tow 3.73) with enclosed tandem 22' trailer and Big block A body in tow weighs about the same as the GMC, I'll stick with the stock 455. Feels a lot more composed on grades, even with 3.07. Or we all buy into the Ford Ecoboost V6 and figure how to fit that as according to the Mike Rowe videos its absolutely indestructible.
>
> The ecoboost is a great engine but really no more durable than any engine available from the big 3. Ford has done a masterfull job promoting it and in trucks it does deliver. In passenger cars it is proving to be underdelivering. Remeber that ecoboost is a marketing name and the execution across models varies greatly--some great, some not so great.
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Mon Sep 23 14:25:40 CDT 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.06665 seconds
|
GMCforum
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
