Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » What Size AC unit are you running on your 23? (and does it have to work to keep the coach cool?)
| What Size AC unit are you running on your 23? [message #204331] |
Thu, 11 April 2013 06:57  |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769
Registered: February 2013
Location: Columbia, SC
Karma: 7
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One of the "knowns" with the "Budget Birch" was that the roof AC unit was disclosed as dead by the PO (who got that info from the previous PO).
I opened it up this week and the air circulation fan does not move freely when the fan is turned by hand and one of the ac feed wires had melted the wire nut where it connected to the controls. I repaired the wire, but have not hooked up to shore power to test, but I am not hopeful - the unit is old and the fried wire was likely caused by the stiff fan motor.
So I have been looking at replacement options. The penny pincher in me says buy the cheapest new replacement unit available and motor on. The old man in me says buy the slickest, high capacity unit money can buy because you don't want to do this twice.
Also, because everything on this little escapade has cost twice what I thought it would, I am starting to get acutely aware of need vs want.
So, What size unit? 13.5, 15?
The low profile units are nice, but is 4" height difference on a 9' high coach really worth the extra dough? In the case of available 13.5k units, the price is double.
I'd love to be able to get an AC unit that would work on a smaller generator, but I don't want to sacrifice cooling power, and in the humid south the task is formidable. I want to have a walk in cooler when camping in August.
What size/model unit are you fellow southerners running in your 23' coaches, and does it do the job? Obviously, if the coach has additional insulation it will boost the performance, so please mention if the coach has been so equipped.
Any nuggets of wisdom on the topic are appreciated.
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
[Updated on: Thu, 11 April 2013 06:59] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: What Size AC unit are you running on your 23? [message #204334 is a reply to message #204331] |
Thu, 11 April 2013 07:26  |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| Joe Weir wrote on Thu, 11 April 2013 07:57 |
One of the "knowns" with the "Budget Birch" was that the roof AC unit was disclosed as dead by the PO (who got that info from the previous PO).
I opened it up this week and the air circulation fan does not move freely when the fan is turned by hand and one of the ac feed wires had melted the wire nut where it connected to the controls. I repaired the wire, but have not hooked up to shore power to test, but I am not hopeful - the unit is old and the fried wire was likely caused by the stiff fan motor.
So I have been looking at replacement options. The penny pincher in me says buy the cheapest new replacement unit available and motor on. The old man in me says buy the slickest, high capacity unit money can buy because you don't want to do this twice.
Also, because everything on this little escapade has cost twice what I thought it would, I am starting to get acutely aware of need vs want.
So, What size unit? 13.5, 15?
The low profile units are nice, but is 4" height difference on a 9' high coach really worth the extra dough? In the case of available 13.5k units, the price is double.
I'd love to be able to get an AC unit that would work on a smaller generator, but I don't want to sacrifice cooling power, and in the humid south the task is formidable. I want to have a walk in cooler when camping in August.
What size/model unit are you fellow southerners running in your 23' coaches, and does it do the job? Obviously, if the coach has additional insulation it will boost the performance, so please mention if the coach has been so equipped.
Any nuggets of wisdom on the topic are appreciated.
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Joe,
The blower is simple and inexpensive to replace. Get measurements and look at Grainger. You even look at lubricating it first. There are usually small plugs that can be removed to lubricate the bearings. They need a light oil (not even 0w20 will do). This alone could have caused the wire nut issue.
I am not a southerner, but it still gets hot up here just not as long. I went with a low profile 15K and it has lower starting load and running current. I changed to a low profile to have it fit under my barn door. I went with 15k instead of 13.5 because the cost difference was minimal. I have been glad of that when we got back to a hot coach and I could crank that babe up and have the coach cool in short order.
As to the capability to run on a generator, the starting and running current of both a 13.5 and 15 are just not that different. Get the specifications and read them carefully before you make the purchase.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: What Size AC unit are you running on your 23? [message #204342 is a reply to message #204334] |
Thu, 11 April 2013 09:02 |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769
Registered: February 2013
Location: Columbia, SC
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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I did not think these things were repairable. The penny pincher will check the fan motor before the old man buys anything.
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
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| Re: What Size AC unit are you running on your 23? [message #204345 is a reply to message #204331] |
Thu, 11 April 2013 09:48 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Go to the hardware and get one of those tube spout oilers with the turbine oil and little red cap. Made for AC fan motors. Old lube has dryed and gummed. If it wasn't run while squealing, bearings are probably still ok. If unit still has r22 and compressor runs you may be good. Wire nut most likely caused by corrosion and then resistance heating run away. A locked fan motor still only draws a few amps, not that huge in the big picture. You may need to clean (Deoxit D5) and exercise all the flag terminal connections or another location may get hot etc. These units are hermetic sealed so if intact can hold charge many many years.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] What Size AC unit are you running on your 23? [message #204348 is a reply to message #204334] |
Thu, 11 April 2013 09:55 |
mickeysss
Messages: 1476
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I still have the original air conditioner I have not tried to start it yet. My onan is not running yet due to the death of Duane Simmons whom stated, come on over and lets get that going. I have not attached it to any 110 volt yet and do not know if it works. My last visit with a well known shop here stated it runs. but i do not know, if it does or not. THey stated lots of things. Tell me is the original air conditioner ever ok to keep. Do they still work.
I am interested in the odds i will have to replace it. If you have time let me know my odds that it is still a viable thing to keep.
If it does not work i am going to buy a new one. if it does not work what is the first things to check to make it work normally. if possible.
best regards mickey :-) (-:
77 palm beach
anaheim ca.
On Apr 11, 2013, at 5:26 AM, Matt Colie wrote:
>
>
> Joe Weir wrote on Thu, 11 April 2013 07:57
>> One of the "knowns" with the "Budget Birch" was that the roof AC unit was disclosed as dead by the PO (who got that info from the previous PO).
>>
>> I opened it up this week and the air circulation fan does not move freely when the fan is turned by hand and one of the ac feed wires had melted the wire nut where it connected to the controls. I repaired the wire, but have not hooked up to shore power to test, but I am not hopeful - the unit is old and the fried wire was likely caused by the stiff fan motor.
>>
>> So I have been looking at replacement options. The penny pincher in me says buy the cheapest new replacement unit available and motor on. The old man in me says buy the slickest, high capacity unit money can buy because you don't want to do this twice.
>>
>> Also, because everything on this little escapade has cost twice what I thought it would, I am starting to get acutely aware of need vs want.
>>
>> So, What size unit? 13.5, 15?
>>
>> The low profile units are nice, but is 4" height difference on a 9' high coach really worth the extra dough? In the case of available 13.5k units, the price is double.
>>
>> I'd love to be able to get an AC unit that would work on a smaller generator, but I don't want to sacrifice cooling power, and in the humid south the task is formidable. I want to have a walk in cooler when camping in August.
>>
>> What size/model unit are you fellow southerners running in your 23' coaches, and does it do the job? Obviously, if the coach has additional insulation it will boost the performance, so please mention if the coach has been so equipped.
>>
>> Any nuggets of wisdom on the topic are appreciated.
>
> Joe,
>
> The blower is simple and inexpensive to replace. Get measurements and look at Grainger. You even look at lubricating it first. There are usually small plugs that can be removed to lubricate the bearings. They need a light oil (not even 0w20 will do). This alone could have caused the wire nut issue.
>
> I am not a southerner, but it still gets hot up here just not as long. I went with a low profile 15K and it has lower starting load and running current. I changed to a low profile to have it fit under my barn door. I went with 15k instead of 13.5 because the cost difference was minimal. I have been glad of that when we got back to a hot coach and I could crank that babe up and have the coach cool in short order.
>
> As to the capability to run on a generator, the starting and running current of both a 13.5 and 15 are just not that different. Get the specifications and read them carefully before you make the purchase.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie
> '73 Glacier 23 Chaumière (say show-me-air) Just about as stock as you will find
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: What Size AC unit are you running on your 23? [message #204359 is a reply to message #204331] |
Thu, 11 April 2013 12:16 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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I second the 15K unit. I had two 15K's on my coach, but only really needed one probably since I ducted them. I have one of those on my TT now, with about the same interior space, but much better insulation, and it works great. First summer is coming, so I'll let you all know.
They do draw lower current at startup and operation, and the nice thing about the low profiles is that they have separate motors for the outdoor and indoor fan, so you can have the indoor fan on low, but the outdoor fan will always be on high, and will extract heat faster. You get nice ice cold air that way.
Ducting helps A LOT! For those of us who are not so tall, I recommend it.
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: [GMCnet] What Size AC unit are you running on your 23? [message #204363 is a reply to message #204355] |
Thu, 11 April 2013 12:35 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Consider adding heat strip while you are at it. Wish that I had had one at Dothan, where the temperatures were about 20 degrees cooler than expected. Took out my little heat cubes. Coach furnace does work, so it became okay.
Added heat strip when I got home.
Tom, MS iI
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: [GMCnet] What Size AC unit are you running on your 23? [message #204364 is a reply to message #204342] |
Thu, 11 April 2013 12:35 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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We had at Dothan a brand new compressor for one of the tall ones. Unless someone glommed up on it, it either hit Ken H's place or the dumpster.They are 'braze in' though, and you'd need to fit a pair of Schraders to the lines. If you had to pay an A/C tech to do it, you could likely buy a new one for the same money.
--johnny
________________________________
From: Joe Weir <joeweir@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What Size AC unit are you running on your 23?
I did not think these things were repairable. The penny pincher will check the fan motor before the old man buys anything.
--
76 Birchaven
Columbia, SC.
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] What Size AC unit are you running on your 23? [message #204370 is a reply to message #204352] |
Thu, 11 April 2013 13:41 |
mickeysss
Messages: 1476
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Thank you m. 77 pb Anaheim ca
Sent from my iPhone communicator
Mickey's Space Ship Shuttle
Bridge commander
Mickey
On Apr 11, 2013, at 9:18 AM, "A." <markbb1@netzero.com> wrote:
>
>
> mickeysss wrote on Thu, 11 April 2013 09:55
>> I still have the original air conditioner I have not tried to start it yet. My onan is not running yet due to the death of Duane Simmons whom stated, come on over and lets get that going. I have not attached it to any 110 volt yet and do not know if it works. My last visit with a well known shop here stated it runs. but i do not know, if it does or not. THey stated lots of things. Tell me is the original air conditioner ever ok to keep. Do they still work.
>>
>> I am interested in the odds i will have to replace it. If you have time let me know my odds that it is still a viable thing to keep.
>>
>> If it does not work i am going to buy a new one. if it does not work what is the first things to check to make it work normally. if possible.
>>
>> best regards mickey :) (-:
>> 77 palm beach
>> anaheim ca.
> The quickest and easiest way to find out if the roof AC works (with the constraint that the Onan doesn't run) is to connect to shore power and try it. I am guessing you don't have ready access to a shore power source.
> You could cobble together some adapters to enable a regular (but short) extension cord (plugged into a 20A outlet) to energize one leg, or the other, of the GMC electrical panel to get power to the roof AC in order to test it. You would want to make sure everything other than the roof AC is off, or it would trip the breaker on the 20A outlet circuit, or melt plugs and cords.
> --
> '73 23' Sequoia For Camping
> '73 23' CanyonLands For Sale
> UA (Upper Alabama)
> "Time is money. If you use YOUR time, you get to keep YOUR money."
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: What Size AC unit are you running on your 23? [message #204375 is a reply to message #204331] |
Thu, 11 April 2013 15:06 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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"Tell me is the original air conditioner ever ok to keep. Do they still work."
Both of my original DuoTherms still work and well. The larger one is in the front hole and smaller in the rear. The new ones may draw slightly less power but most camp grounds do not charge for electric by kWh, though some do have individual meters now, it's still like a couple bucks when you leave. Since I only use my GMC a few weeks a year now the savings would be incalcuable. I still like the look of the originals too as they were so far ahead of some of the ones that followed. Things that fail are mostly bad connections, relays, and capacitors and fan motor lubrication and critter damage. Those parts are worth fixing in my opinion.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: What Size AC unit are you running on your 23? [message #204380 is a reply to message #204331] |
Thu, 11 April 2013 15:26 |
chasingsummer
Messages: 434
Registered: May 2011
Location: asheboro, nc
Karma: 0
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I have one original in rear and newer one up front.
I know I am in a 26 not a 23, but both of mine work. I dont usually have both running at the same time. Front one when I drive in summer and when eating, watching tv, etc. My rear one mainly runs only at night. When plugged in camping, with both running it does not take long at all to get temps to comfort level. I would expect only one to take longer. My front one does a fair job of keeping me comfortable while driving which allows me to ignore dash air which is inop,
If it was me I would try and get running before I just gave up one. But I am very cheep
brian
brian
asheboro, nc
75 eleganza, 74 build
119k miles and counting,
DOG HOUSE
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| Re: What Size AC unit are you running on your 23? [message #204460 is a reply to message #204404] |
Fri, 12 April 2013 14:15 |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769
Registered: February 2013
Location: Columbia, SC
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Thanks for the responses. I managed to crawl up on top of the coach last night in between thunderstorms and pull the cover. Its a 7333 series Coleman. I sprayed down the bearings best I could but the motor looks to be a sealed unit.
Plugged up to shore power, turned on the fan and...nothing. So I back up and put a meter on the AC line - no power. Derp.
I need to do a little electrical troubleshooting. The electrical box is a Square D mounted with that funky s-shaped lever that keeps the shore and generator on at the same time. The breakers want to pop out of their mounting a little too easily, but they were all seated for the test.
The outlets and fridge work on the 120 circuit, lights & sockets all work on 12v, so I am getting power through the box.
There goes the weekend...
On a positive note, I opened the pod for the first time and struck treasure! A coleman Propane stove, all of my missing screws from the interior in several cups  , a collection of good rags, the remains of the 3/4" hose the PO used instead of the 5/8's some assorted wood trim bits, and $120 worth of window seal from Gateway (there was a receipt from a PO).
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
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| Re: What Size AC unit are you running on your 23? [message #204518 is a reply to message #204331] |
Sat, 13 April 2013 00:18 |
kingd
Messages: 592
Registered: June 2004
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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The Coleman roof air I have on a 1977 some other brand (SOB) coach has little red plugs on either end of the fan motor housing. Check if yours has them. Use a very small screww driver to remove them and add a few drops of "turbine oil" (available at your local HVAC parts and service supllier) or Home Depot in Canada and maybe in the U.S. A. Not surprising yours doesn't run if no Volts at unit. If fan is stiff, don't try to run it until oiled and spun by hand until somewhat freed up.
DAVE KING
lurker, wannabe
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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