Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » First PO Suprise
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| Re: [GMCnet] First PO Suprise [message #203435 is a reply to message #203432] |
Tue, 02 April 2013 15:05   |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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What floor plan do you have. Ours was a rear twin bed with the bathroom with
separate shower in front of the drivers side twin and the kitchen across from
the bathroom. We have two tanks, one black water tank for the toilet alone and
one for all of the sinks and shower. Coachman plumbed some of the coaches
different, when we bought ours the toilet, shower and bathroom sink went into
the black water tank and only the kitchen sink went into the gray water tank. I
reworked the plumbing so only the toilet went into the black water tank. Our
tanks each have a valve and then join into a single line for emptying.
Pictures are here. You can see where my pipes are attached to the tanks I had
some small stress cracks and a tad of leaking. I sanded those areas down and
made the repairs with some epoxy.
http://tiny.cc/ibjxuw
Ray
Ray & Lisa
78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
________________________________
From: Richard Andis <randisintexas@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Tue, April 2, 2013 2:26:22 PM
Subject: [GMCnet] First PO Suprise
I think I discovered the first item my PO forgot to mention. Seems I may have a
leak in a holding tank or its associated plumbing. I was wondering why we kept
filling it up but when it came to dumping out, things didn't equate (less out
than going in).
Anybody have a simplified diagram for a Royale twin holding tank(s) and dump
configuration? My monitor panel shows 2 tanks. Not sure why it would have two
tanks seeing how everything is so close together. Owner's manual mentions two
dump valves, but I seem to have only one valve.
--
"Vahalla" - 1978 GMC Royale
"Walküre" - 1974 VW Thing
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] First PO Suprise [message #203436 is a reply to message #203434] |
Tue, 02 April 2013 15:06 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Coachman equipped most of their coaches with 2 tanks.
Ray
Ray & Lisa
78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
________________________________
From: Jerry Wheeler <jrwheeler7@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Tue, April 2, 2013 3:05:24 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] First PO Suprise
Have you looked underneath the coach to see if you have one or two tanks??
JR Wheeler 78 Royale NC/OR
On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Richard Andis <randisintexas@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
> I think I discovered the first item my PO forgot to mention. Seems I may
> have a leak in a holding tank or its associated plumbing. I was wondering
> why we kept filling it up but when it came to dumping out, things didn't
> equate (less out than going in).
>
> Anybody have a simplified diagram for a Royale twin holding tank(s) and
> dump configuration? My monitor panel shows 2 tanks. Not sure why it would
> have two tanks seeing how everything is so close together. Owner's manual
> mentions two dump valves, but I seem to have only one valve.
> --
> "Vahalla" - 1978 GMC Royale
> "Walküre" - 1974 VW Thing
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] First PO Suprise [message #203444 is a reply to message #203432] |
Tue, 02 April 2013 15:55 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Richard,
The Royal has two holding tanks. The black tank under the toilet and a grey tank next to it. There are 2 dump valves, one for each tank. They exit out of one line at the end.
JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
Michigan
On Apr 2, 2013, at 3:26 PM, Richard Andis <randisintexas@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I think I discovered the first item my PO forgot to mention. Seems I may have a leak in a holding tank or its associated plumbing. I was wondering why we kept filling it up but when it came to dumping out, things didn't equate (less out than going in).
>
> Anybody have a simplified diagram for a Royale twin holding tank(s) and dump configuration? My monitor panel shows 2 tanks. Not sure why it would have two tanks seeing how everything is so close together. Owner's manual mentions two dump valves, but I seem to have only one valve.
> --
> "Vahalla" - 1978 GMC Royale
> "Walküre" - 1974 VW Thing
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] First PO Suprise [message #203445 is a reply to message #203440] |
Tue, 02 April 2013 16:54 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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| Richard Andis wrote on Tue, 02 April 2013 13:25 |
The more I look at things it does look like I do in fact have two tanks. Just not sure what is plumbed to what right at the moment. The leaking is coming from the driver's side tank just behind the rear wheel. Looks to be right at the connection to the tank.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6338/medium/00813.JPG
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If you have a rear bath Royale, the leak is on the output of the gray tank. My rear bath Birch also leaked there. I, like your PO, used Silicone to stop the leak. Plastic welding would most likely be better.
The difference in tanks between a rear bath and a side bath Royale, is that the tank under the toilet is larger. The rear tank is larger on the rear bath model than a side bath. This puts the dump plumbing closer to the rear bumper where it is more likely to drag. 
As Coachman did not put one there on my late '78, I had to add a gray tank valve where you have a valve missing a handle. (You can not dump the gray tank last, and rinse the hose, without a valve there.) I expect yours had an extension... a lot like the one I installed on mine.
<http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/brichaven-rear-bath-macerator/p40076-rear-bath-macerator-install.html>
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: First PO Suprise [message #203448 is a reply to message #203432] |
Tue, 02 April 2013 17:14 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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My center kitchen Royale has a black water tank that takes care of the toilet and the shower (making it pretty "gray", really), and a gray water tank that handles just the kitchen sink (so I'm not worried much about it overfilling). There are two blade valves - the black water handle is just in front of the generator compartment on the left frame rail, and the gray water valve is extended back to just ahead of the rear bumper on the the left side.
Of course, like pretty much everything else on my coach, I'm not really sure if it left the Coachman factory like that. At any rate, both tanks (post-valve) empty into the macerator, and there's also a side-exit (pre-macerator) connection for the stinky slinky hose should I ever need it.
From what I've been able to gather after a few trips, it appears the black water shower/toilet tank is nearly as big as my fresh water tank (since I don't overflow the black water tank by emptying almost the entire fresh water tank into it). The gray water tank is obviously smaller, but still much bigger than it needs to be.
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: [GMCnet] First PO Suprise [message #203452 is a reply to message #203448] |
Tue, 02 April 2013 20:01 |
Jerry Wheeler
Messages: 246
Registered: January 2013
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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I've had very good luck using poly urethane; I sealed a quarter size hole
in the corner of the tank 13 years ago and haven't seen a leak since; I
also had to seal (on other tanks on other GMCs) the area where the
discharge pipe comes out of the tank; I always use the poly urethane and
smear it all around (but it has to be dry to stick).
JR Wheeler 78 Royale NC/OR
On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 6:14 PM, Mark <mark@habcycles.com> wrote:
>
>
> My center kitchen Royale has a black water tank that takes care of the
> toilet and the shower (making it pretty "gray", really), and a gray water
> tank that handles just the kitchen sink (so I'm not worried much about it
> overfilling). There are two blade valves - the black water handle is just
> in front of the generator compartment on the left frame rail, and the gray
> water valve is extended back to just ahead of the rear bumper on the the
> left side.
>
> Of course, like pretty much everything else on my coach, I'm not really
> sure if it left the Coachman factory like that. At any rate, both tanks
> (post-valve) empty into the macerator, and there's also a side-exit
> (pre-macerator) connection for the stinky slinky hose should I ever need it.
>
> From what I've been able to gather after a few trips, it appears the black
> water shower/toilet tank is nearly as big as my fresh water tank (since I
> don't overflow the black water tank by emptying almost the entire fresh
> water tank into it). The gray water tank is obviously smaller, but still
> much bigger than it needs to be.
> --
> Mark Hickey
> Mesa, AZ
> 1978 Royale Center Kitchen
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] First PO Suprise [message #203455 is a reply to message #203440] |
Tue, 02 April 2013 20:56 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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It is a messy job, but I replaced the gate valve and repaired a break in the tank where the outlet met it using a two part black resin patch that Frady recommended. Available at Homer the Despot. Don't remember the name but you could call him (Southland RV in Buford GA) and ask. So far, it's holding. As in any resin repair, get the surface squeaky clean and dry and rough it up with sandpaper.
--johnny
'76 23' transnmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: Richard Andis <randisintexas@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2013 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] First PO Suprise
The more I look at things it does look like I di in fact have two tanks. Just not sure what is plumbed to what right at the moment. The leaking is coming from the driver's side tank just behind the rear wheel. Looks to be right at the connection to the tank.
--
"Vahalla" - 1978 GMC Royale
"Walküre" - 1974 VW Thing
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] First PO Suprise [message #203467 is a reply to message #203445] |
Wed, 03 April 2013 06:36 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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I've used Vulkem Polyurethane caulk for patch's like this. Just sand the
plastic to give the Vulkem something to grab on to. In my opinion Vulkem is a
great caulk, holds up very well. I built a new home 22 years ago and had all of
the cedar siding caulked with Vulkem, every spec of caulk is still in near
perfect condition.
Ray
Ray & Lisa
78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
________________________________
From: Mike Miller <m000035@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Tue, April 2, 2013 4:54:48 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] First PO Suprise
Richard Andis wrote on Tue, 02 April 2013 13:25
> The more I look at things it does look like I do in fact have two tanks. Just
>not sure what is plumbed to what right at the moment. The leaking is coming from
>the driver's side tank just behind the rear wheel. Looks to be right at the
>connection to the tank.
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6338/medium/00813.JPG
If you have a rear bath Royale, the leak is on the output of the gray tank. My
rear bath Birch also leaked there. I, like your PO, used Silicone to stop the
leak. Plastic welding would most likely be better.
The difference in tanks between a rear bath and a side bath Royale, is that the
tank under the toilet is larger. The rear tank is larger on the rear bath model
than a side bath. This puts the dump plumbing closer to the rear bumper where it
is more likely to drag. :cry:
As Coachman did not put one there on my late '78, I had to add a gray tank valve
where you have a valve missing a handle. (You can not dump the gray tank last,
and rinse the hose, without a valve there.) I expect yours had an extension...
a lot like the one I installed on mine.
<http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/brichaven-rear-bath-macerator/p40076-rear-bath-macerator-install.html>
--
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#1)'73 26' exPainted D. -- (#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23'
Birchaven Side Bath
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] First PO Suprise [message #203468 is a reply to message #203455] |
Wed, 03 April 2013 06:39 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Lower the back of the coach, fill the black tank with water and drain it several
times, that will flush it out. Then get the area to be sealed good and dry,
clean and sand it down. I molded a small piece of aluminum window screen to go
over the leak and then applied the sealant, hasn't leaked in 8 years. Vulkem
caulk would be a good choice in my opinion.
Ray
Ray & Lisa
78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
________________________________
From: Johnny Bridges <jhbridges@ymail.com>
To: "gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org" <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Tue, April 2, 2013 8:56:55 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] First PO Suprise
It is a messy job, but I replaced the gate valve and repaired a break in the
tank where the outlet met it using a two part black resin patch that Frady
recommended. Available at Homer the Despot. Don't remember the name but you
could call him (Southland RV in Buford GA) and ask. So far, it's holding. As
in any resin repair, get the surface squeaky clean and dry and rough it up with
sandpaper.
--johnny
'76 23' transnmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: Richard Andis <randisintexas@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2013 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] First PO Suprise
The more I look at things it does look like I di in fact have two tanks. Just
not sure what is plumbed to what right at the moment. The leaking is coming from
the driver's side tank just behind the rear wheel. Looks to be right at the
connection to the tank.
--
"Vahalla" - 1978 GMC Royale
"Walküre" - 1974 VW Thing
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] First PO Suprise [message #203476 is a reply to message #203444] |
Wed, 03 April 2013 08:01 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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On our 78 Royale the black tank is the full width of the coach directly under
the toilet and the gray tank is to the rear of the black tank, about 1/2 its
size and on the passenger side.
Black water tank is 23 gallon capacity and grey water is 15 gallons.
Ray
Ray & Lisa
78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
________________________________
From: John Wright <powerjon@chartermi.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Tue, April 2, 2013 3:55:13 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] First PO Suprise
Richard,
The Royal has two holding tanks. The black tank under the toilet and a grey
tank next to it. There are 2 dump valves, one for each tank. They exit out of
one line at the end.
JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
Michigan
On Apr 2, 2013, at 3:26 PM, Richard Andis <randisintexas@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I think I discovered the first item my PO forgot to mention. Seems I may have a
>leak in a holding tank or its associated plumbing. I was wondering why we kept
>filling it up but when it came to dumping out, things didn't equate (less out
>than going in).
>
>
> Anybody have a simplified diagram for a Royale twin holding tank(s) and dump
>configuration? My monitor panel shows 2 tanks. Not sure why it would have two
>tanks seeing how everything is so close together. Owner's manual mentions two
>dump valves, but I seem to have only one valve.
>
> --
> "Vahalla" - 1978 GMC Royale
> "Walküre" - 1974 VW Thing
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] First PO Suprise [message #203556 is a reply to message #203555] |
Wed, 03 April 2013 17:25 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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That is a pass side dump. There are also end dump, left side, and center
dump tanks, all fitted into Royale Coachman Gmc's. Take a cell phone photo
and post it on the photo site. I will look at it and try to help you sort
it out. Also look at Ardemco.com. Jim K has other tanks not pictured on his
web site. Call & talk to him or Nick.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 Gmc Royale ( rear twin bed, driver side dry bath, two waste tanks with
mascerator )
On Apr 3, 2013 3:03 PM, "Richard Andis" <randisintexas@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Well I flushed,dumped and drained the tank several times in order to take
> it by the local RV repair site. They looked at at it and wanted to replace
> that tank for somewhere in the $1000 range. On top of that they said they
> wouldn't be able to get the tank for a week. I need to be on the road next
> Monday so I declined their offer.
>
> Hopefully things will dry out enough that I can get some sort of temp
> patch on it. I believe all of the places were plan on stopping (Washington
> State to Hell Paso, TX) has bathroom facilities anyway. So the toilet will
> be out of service for this trip.
>
> I'll check out that Vulkem caulk. Looks pretty promising. Thanks for all
> the info.
>
> Is this the correct replacement tank?
> http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/896
>
> Seem my outlet is a bit more to the left (or is this picture upsidedown)
> --
> "Vahalla" - 1978 GMC Royale (Rear Twin)
> "Walküre" - 1974 VW Thing
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] First PO Suprise [message #203559 is a reply to message #203558] |
Wed, 03 April 2013 18:28 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Richard, if your toilet is located directly above this tank, then it is the
BLACK tank. It appears to be a Coachman fitted tank like they used when the
coach was built. I can tell this by the flange that is visible on the top
of your picture. The flange type tanks are difficult to find today. Their
only support for mounting was that flange and the entire tank full of stuff
was free to bounce up and down on that flange. Almost every one of those
tanks that I have seen were cracked near that flange all around the
perimeter of the tank. When they get full, they leak through the crack. As
they are all nearly 40 years old, the plastic has become brittle. You fix
that crack, and a new crack appears somewhere else. The best fix is to
replace the tank. But if it is only a downstream fitting that leaks, that
can be successfully repaired. If it is in the tank outlet fitting, my best
advice to you would be to replace the tank. But if you are "cash strapped"
like many of us are, the products you have mentioned will TEMPORARILY stop
that leak. You can replace the tank when budget will allow it. I am in a
position of having to warranty the work that I do on tanks. That perhaps
changes my repair priorities somewhat. Hope this helps you.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 Gmc Royale 403
On Apr 3, 2013 4:06 PM, "Richard Andis" <randisintexas@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> James Hupy wrote on Wed, 03 April 2013 17:25
> > That is a pass side dump. There are also end dump, left side, and center
> > dump tanks, all fitted into Royale Coachman Gmc's. Take a cell phone
> photo and post it on the photo site. I will look at it and try to help you
> sort
> > it out.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> This tank dumps from the driver's side (at least that's where the outlet
> is). Here's the picture taken from the passenger side looking forward to
> the driver's side.
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6338/medium/00320.JPG
>
>
> I think it's repairable. I first need to clean off the silicon and other
> PO gunk. We just sold our home and I'm living in the RV so don't really
> have a place to do any work.
>
> --
> "Vahalla" - 1978 GMC Royale (Rear Twin)
> "Walküre" - 1974 VW Thing
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] First PO Suprise [message #203561 is a reply to message #203558] |
Wed, 03 April 2013 18:47 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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I do not know what part of Washington you will be passing through or when but if you will be in or near Seattle during business hours/days and the tank is EMPTY and CLEAN I think it could be patched without too much trouble here at my shop. Let me know.
Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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