Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Olds 455 / 403 Second Drain
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| Re: [GMCnet] Olds 455 / 403 Second Drain [message #201145 is a reply to message #201140] |
Sat, 09 March 2013 16:36   |
Larry
Messages: 2875
Registered: January 2004
Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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It should be noted that the front drain on the Cad 500 is a factory drain. It was there on all Eldo Cad 472 and 500's.
In addition, while one of the pics implies that you must check for clearence, keep in mind that you can't just put a plug in anywhere you want. If the bung is welded on the inside of the pan, there are plenty of places in that pan where the crank will hit that bung. So, look at this VERY carefully before you drill your holes.
Just my relatively informed, off the cuff, back yard mechanic, gut level, eyeball it up and guestimate, opinion....that's all...
Larry 
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Olds 455 / 403 Second Drain [message #201147 is a reply to message #201145] |
Sat, 09 March 2013 17:00 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Larry,
THANKS!
I edited the photo captions to incorporate your comments.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=6316
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry
It should be noted that the front drain on the Cad 500 is a factory drain. It was there on all Eldo Cad 472 and 500's.
In addition, while one of the pics implies that you must check for clearence, keep in mind that you can't just put a plug in
anywhere you want. If the bung is welded on the inside of the pan, there are plenty of places in that pan where the crank will hit
that bung. So, look at this VERY carefully before you drill your holes.
Just my relatively informed, off the cuff, back yard mechanic, gut level, eyeball it up and guestimate, opinion....that's all...
--
Larry :)
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
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Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Olds 455 / 403 Second Drain [message #201172 is a reply to message #201140] |
Sun, 10 March 2013 04:18 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Hi Rob and All:
Here is another picture for you. A "DON'T DO IT THIS WAY" kind.
It certainly is a good exercise however, to indicate the relationship if these parts.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/discussion-photos/p47963-connecting-rod.html
This drain hole is in the WRONG place and the connecting rod collided with the oil pan. It's a good thing that you show how to do this properly!
Look how close that rod swings through that part of the oil pan. Not much oil really collects there while the engine is running because the oil is slung away from that area from the wind storm and forced oil flow from the slapping action of the swinging rods that is created in that area. If some oil does collect there, the rods beat the oil away. It could not be considered a "Sump", where sediment and contaminants could collect.
Yes: some oil will collect from the dripping, after the engine has stopped, but not really that much. The small amount that is actually left over will not detrimentally dilute or contaminate the new oil in any real significant way, because in a well maintained engine the old oil should still be in good shape .
CAUTION: an Opinion follows!!!
I would never want to stand in the way of someone looking after the fine details such as yourself and a few others, and it might be considered a good idea to create this second drain for those that already have an oil pan off, and have the skills, or money, or time. (In the same way as painting the inside of the engine block with racing engine paints, and other non factory modifications) It certainly would not hurt!!! (unless it was done wrong of course) I am NOT saying it is silly. However:
My opinion (for most GMCers) is that: with regular (Good maintenance intervals) oil changes, having that second drain should not be a priority of anyone who is not having an engine done or who has not had this done, or really is not interested in spending the extra cost. (In other words: for those that don't have this feature, they should not lose any sleep over it.)
I say all of this because of the Ford 351 Windsors installed in the 70s and 80s Grand Marquis and Crown Vics (They had the oil pump (and distributor) in the front of the engine, and had a small front sump in the front and a large rear sump that the oil pump pick up went to. They did this because the steering rods needed clearance and allowed the engine to be a little lower. (here was a groove in the middle of the oil pan. Much more pronounced that the Olds.) The front sump would hold a little more than a quart of oil and the oil would settle out. Therefore a drain plug was needed to get rid of the sediment. Along with another place for oil to leak, this was also one more thing to go wrong for the person who has others do the work for them. I have had to repair many oil drain threads and plugs because this was one more thing for “Oil Change Specialists” (Oil Change shops) to strip and create leaks.
Best regards
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: [GMCnet] Olds 455 / 403 Second Drain [message #201179 is a reply to message #201172] |
Sun, 10 March 2013 08:11 |
Larry
Messages: 2875
Registered: January 2004
Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| John Heslinga wrote on Sun, 10 March 2013 04:18 |
Hi Rob and All:
Here is another picture for you. A "DON'T DO IT THIS WAY" kind.
It certainly is a good exercise however, to indicate the relationship if these parts.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/discussion-photos/p47963-connecting-rod.html
This drain hole is in the WRONG place and the connecting rod collided with the oil pan. It's a good thing that you show how to do this properly!
Look how close that rod swings through that part of the oil pan. Not much oil really collects there while the engine is running because the oil is slung away from that area from the wind storm and forced oil flow from the slapping action of the swinging rods that is created in that area. If some oil does collect there, the rods beat the oil away. It could not be considered a "Sump", where sediment and contaminants could collect.
Yes: some oil will collect from the dripping, after the engine has stopped, but not really that much. The small amount that is actually left over will not detrimentally dilute or contaminate the new oil in any real significant way, because in a well maintained engine the old oil should still be in good shape .
CAUTION: an Opinion follows!!!
I would never want to stand in the way of someone looking after the fine details such as yourself and a few others, and it might be considered a good idea to create this second drain for those that already have an oil pan off, and have the skills, or money, or time. (In the same way as painting the inside of the engine block with racing engine paints, and other non factory modifications) It certainly would not hurt!!! (unless it was done wrong of course) I am NOT saying it is silly. However:
My opinion (for most GMCers) is that: with regular (Good maintenance intervals) oil changes, having that second drain should not be a priority of anyone who is not having an engine done or who has not had this done, or really is not interested in spending the extra cost. (In other words: for those that don't have this feature, they should not lose any sleep over it.)
I say all of this because of the Ford 351 Windsors installed in the 70s and 80s Grand Marquis and Crown Vics (They had the oil pump (and distributor) in the front of the engine, and had a small front sump in the front and a large rear sump that the oil pump pick up went to. They did this because the steering rods needed clearance and allowed the engine to be a little lower. (here was a groove in the middle of the oil pan. Much more pronounced that the Olds.) The front sump would hold a little more than a quart of oil and the oil would settle out. Therefore a drain plug was needed to get rid of the sediment. Along with another place for oil to leak, this was also one more thing to go wrong for the person who has others do the work for them. I have had to repair many oil drain threads and plugs because this was one more thing for “Oil Change Specialists” (Oil Change shops) to strip and create leaks.
Best regards
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John,
Your points are well taken. IMO it is not worth the effort (considering that at a minimum you'd have to drop the transmission to get the pan off) to make a project out of installing a second drain on the 455/403 pan.
However, when I changed out the 455 for a 500, I did take the 455 pan, place it level and pour liquid into the front portion of the pan, and measure the amount residing there. It came to almost a quart. In addition, when I do a oil change on my 500, I get about a pint and a half of oil out of the front portion of the pan, and I think you may get a similar amount out of a 455. Drainage I suspect from everything directly above it. So, like it or not, it is like changing the oil in any other engine without changing the filter. IMO if you have the pan off, it is worth putting the second plug in...just be careful!!
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Olds 455 / 403 Second Drain [message #201181 is a reply to message #201172] |
Sun, 10 March 2013 09:00 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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John,
A few comments:
I looked at the picture and I GA-RON-TEE that whoever installed that plug did not follow the instructions in the photos and sketch I
plagiarized. To put it kindly their mechanical skills and attention to detail leaves quite a bit to be desired.
KenH has a series of photos that show the oil quantity in the oil pan; this photo shows that with the pan level the front section
can hold 1 quart: http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/455-oil-pan-capacity/p10648.html
However, when I drained the oil last October before returning to Australia it wasn't that much. I can't remember how much it was but
it wasn't a quart because the front end was jacked up far enough for me and my fat a$$ to crawl under the coach. Also the amount
that came out of the front section of the pan is probably less than the amount in the lines and the radiator cooler. I disagree that
the oil in the front section of the pan is only from dripping. I reckon that when you hit the brakes oil will slosh from the rear
section into the front section. I agree that the residual oil isn't detrimental if you change it regularly.
Having said all this the engineers that designed the Caddy 472 and 500 didn't agree with us! ;-)
As far as " CAUTION: an Opinion follows!!!" I agree.
I needed to remove the oil pan because the gasket was leaking. To R&R the oil pan you have to remove the transmission. I bought a
spare pan off eBay for $50 and spent another $50 to have the castellated nut heli-arced on the inside. The second drain plug was
about $10 more. When I reinstalled the pan I used a Fel-Pro oil pan gasket # OS30471C (standard for the 350 diesel and is shown as
optional for the 455 and 403). While the oil pan was off I stuck my fingers up on both sides of the timing chain and found it was
LOOSE which also got R&R'd. I installed a 3.21 to 1 final drive at the same time the trans was out.
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
-----Original Message-----
From: John Heslinga
Hi Rob and All:
Here is another picture for you. A "DON'T DO IT THIS WAY" kind.
It certainly is a good exercise however, to indicate the relationship if these parts.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/discussion-photos/p47963-connecting-rod.html
This drain hole is in the WRONG place and the connecting rod collided with the oil pan. It's a good thing that you show how to do
this properly!
Look how close that rod swings through that part of the oil pan. Not much oil really collects there while the engine is running
because the oil is slung away from that area from the wind storm and forced oil flow from the slapping action of the swinging rods
that is created in that area. If some oil does collect there, the rods beat the oil away. It could not be considered a "Sump",
where sediment and contaminants could collect.
Yes: some oil will collect from the dripping, after the engine has stopped, but not really that much. The small amount that is
actually left over will not detrimentally dilute or contaminate the new oil in any real significant way, because in a well
maintained engine the old oil should still be in good shape .
CAUTION: an Opinion follows!!!
I would never want to stand in the way of someone looking after the fine details such as yourself and a few others, and it might be
considered a good idea to create this second drain for those that already have an oil pan off, and have the skills, or money, or
time. (In the same way as painting the inside of the engine block with racing engine paints, and other non factory modifications)
It certainly would not hurt!!! (unless it was done wrong of course) I am NOT saying it is silly. However:
My opinion (for most GMCers) is that: with regular (Good maintenance intervals) oil changes, having that second drain should not
be a priority of anyone who is not having an engine done or who has not had this done, or really is not interested in spending the
extra cost. (In other words: for those that don't have this feature, they should not lose any sleep over it.)
I say all of this because of the Ford 351 Windsors installed in the 70s and 80s Grand Marquis and Crown Vics (They had the oil
pump (and distributor) in the front of the engine, and had a small front sump in the front and a large rear sump that the oil pump
pick up went to. They did this because the steering rods needed clearance and allowed the engine to be a little lower. (here was a
groove in the middle of the oil pan. Much more pronounced that the Olds.) The front sump would hold a little more than a quart of
oil and the oil would settle out. Therefore a drain plug was needed to get rid of the sediment. Along with another place for oil
to leak, this was also one more thing to go wrong for the person who has others do the work for them. I have had to repair many oil
drain threads and plugs because this was one more thing for “Oil Change Specialists” (Oil Change shops) to strip and
create leaks.
Best regards
John
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Olds 455 / 403 Second Drain [message #201187 is a reply to message #201179] |
Sun, 10 March 2013 09:30 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Larry,
Pint and a half sounds about what I got last fall.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry
John,
Your points are well taken. IMO it is not worth the effort (considering that at a minimum you'd have to drop the transmission to
get the pan off) to make a project out of installing a second drain on the 455/403 pan.
However, when I changed out the 455 for a 500, I did take the 455 pan, place it level and pour liquid into the front portion of the
pan, and measure the amount residing there. It came to almost a quart. In addition, when I do a oil change on my 500, I get about
a pint and a half of oil out of the front portion of the pan, and I think you may get a similar amount out of a 455. Drainage I
suspect from everything directly above it. So, like it or not, it is like changing the oil in any other engine without changing the
filter. IMO if you have the pan off, it is worth putting the second plug in...just be careful!!
--
Larry :)
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Olds 455 / 403 Second Drain [message #201196 is a reply to message #201140] |
Sun, 10 March 2013 11:15 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Hi Rob and Larry:
I agree with your thoughts and I thought it was a good idea to put in the second drain plug too!!!
Gave the measurements to the welder and for some reason he used something different. Don't know where his head was. Maybe on the nude pin ups in the shop. 
P****d me Off big Time!!!!!
| Quote: |
I looked at the picture and I GA-RON-TEE that whoever installed that plug did not follow the instructions in the photos and sketch I plagiarized. To put it kindly their mechanical skills and attention to detail leaves quite a bit to be desired.
|
I felt the same way and It did get fixed, but it put a damper on the excitement of having it done!! Made me rethink a few things and seeing how close everything is was a real eye opener. Thought you all could learn something from my misfortune.
Respect you all !!
Best regards
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: [GMCnet] Olds 455 / 403 Second Drain [message #201204 is a reply to message #201140] |
Sun, 10 March 2013 12:44 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Hi All
Only for discussion sake and Related to this subject I have a photo of the interior of the Olds oil pan.
See the Windage plate.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/discussion-photos/p47966-oil-pan-windage-fittin.html
Worthy of note: the oil that collects in the front of the oil pan is blown and splashed from this area by the crankshaft motion into the louvre of this Windage plate and drained back to the rear sump. Effectively pumping the oil to the rear sump. The splashing of the oil in this area can cause foaming, airiation, excess oil misting, and a lot of oil on the cylinder and block walls in this area. The excess oil splash causes problems for oil rings and PCV systems. This helps to eliminate those problems and keep this part of the oil pan from collecting too much oil. While a static oil pan filled to its brim looks like a big problem, this explains why you get less oil than you might expect when draining this area
Does a Cadillac 500 have the same?. If the Crank does not come so close to the pan the oil will have a chance too pool and must be drained. Isn't the oil pump in the front of the engine and the pan needs to have room for it? I don't really know about the Caddys .
Regards
Best regards
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: [GMCnet] Olds 455 / 403 Second Drain [message #201210 is a reply to message #201196] |
Sun, 10 March 2013 13:23 |
Dave Mumert
Messages: 272
Registered: February 2004
Location: Olds, AB, Canada
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Hi All
Maybe I am being over simple but why don't you weld a nut on the bottom of
the oil pan and use a plug that does not penetrate the oil pan.
McMaster has a 1/2-20 flanged nut (91030A440) for $2.58 and a 1/2-20 plug
(50925K413) for $1.36
Weld the nut to the bottom of the pan, drill a hole up through the nut, and
insert the plug.
Dave
> -----Original Message-----
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Olds 455 / 403 Second Drain
>
> Hi Rob and Larry:
>
> I agree with your thoughts and I thought it was a good idea to put in the
> second drain plug too!!!
>
> Gave the measurements to the welder and for some reason he used
> something different. Don't know where his head was. Maybe on the nude
> pin ups in the shop. ;)
>
> P****d me Off big Time!!!!!
>
> Quote:
> > I looked at the picture and I GA-RON-TEE that whoever installed that
plug
> did not follow the instructions in the photos and sketch I plagiarized. To
put it
> kindly their mechanical skills and attention to detail leaves quite a bit
to be
> desired.
>
>
> I felt the same way and It did get fixed, but it put a damper on the
> excitement of having it done!! Made me rethink a few things and seeing
> how close everything is was a real eye opener. Thought you all could
learn
> something from my misfortune.
>
> Respect you all !!
> Best regards
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| Re: [GMCnet] Olds 455 / 403 Second Drain [message #201213 is a reply to message #201210] |
Sun, 10 March 2013 14:23 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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I am for the additional drain plug.
When the coach is on ire ramp, it tends to be level, and with soft front
mounts it will hold close to 1 quart.
I understand that while the engine is running there is not much there in
the front cavity.
When I change the oil, I like to drain as much as I can.
Cad engines had the aux drain, possibly the person in charge felt it was
important.
one way or the other , points are well taken.
I will continue to run my Cad 540 with 2 drains and the 403 with one till I
need to redo the engine. At that time I will go either.
Rob, You took the time to show us, I appreciate it very much and so do
others.
Thank s to you and others that are inputting information.
On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 11:23 AM, Dave Mumert <gmcnet@mumert.com> wrote:
> Hi All
>
> Maybe I am being over simple but why don't you weld a nut on the bottom of
> the oil pan and use a plug that does not penetrate the oil pan.
>
> McMaster has a 1/2-20 flanged nut (91030A440) for $2.58 and a 1/2-20 plug
> (50925K413) for $1.36
>
> Weld the nut to the bottom of the pan, drill a hole up through the nut, and
> insert the plug.
>
> Dave
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Olds 455 / 403 Second Drain
> >
> > Hi Rob and Larry:
> >
> > I agree with your thoughts and I thought it was a good idea to put in the
> > second drain plug too!!!
> >
> > Gave the measurements to the welder and for some reason he used
> > something different. Don't know where his head was. Maybe on the nude
> > pin ups in the shop. ;)
> >
> > P****d me Off big Time!!!!!
> >
> > Quote:
> > > I looked at the picture and I GA-RON-TEE that whoever installed that
> plug
> > did not follow the instructions in the photos and sketch I plagiarized.
> To
> put it
> > kindly their mechanical skills and attention to detail leaves quite a bit
> to be
> > desired.
> >
> >
> > I felt the same way and It did get fixed, but it put a damper on the
> > excitement of having it done!! Made me rethink a few things and seeing
> > how close everything is was a real eye opener. Thought you all could
> learn
> > something from my misfortune.
> >
> > Respect you all !!
> > Best regards
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Olds 455 / 403 Second Drain [message #201232 is a reply to message #201196] |
Sun, 10 March 2013 17:50 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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John,
I am gob smacked that it is your oil pan, I know you are a perfectionist.
The drain in the pan for Double Trouble was heli-arced by a young guy that worked at a shop that built hot rod Japanese cars. He
welded up custom exhaust systems. I was blown away by his welding skills because he was self taught and I hadn't seen any welding as
good as his since my Project Apollo days.
Unfortunately they moved their shop to the other side of Houston so I brought the pan off the Paterson engine I got up in Canada to
a local guy. He told me he would heli-arc it but when I picked it up I could tell he had used a Mig welder. His welding was
seriously crude and he had filled the slots in the castellated nuts. When I pointed that out to him and explained why I had used a
castellated nut his retort was; "I was wondering why you used a nut like that?" Actually it's my fault as I should have explained
the reason for the castellated nut when I dropped it off, I assumed he'd figger it out!
I'm in the same boat you were, I need to remove the messed up nut and find another welder!
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Heslinga
Hi Rob and Larry:
I agree with your thoughts and I thought it was a good idea to put in the second drain plug too!!!
Gave the measurements to the welder and for some reason he used something different. Don't know where his head was. Maybe on the
nude pin ups in the shop. ;)
P****d me Off big Time!!!!!
Quote:
> I looked at the picture and I GA-RON-TEE that whoever installed that plug did not follow the instructions in the photos and sketch
I plagiarized. To put it kindly their mechanical skills and attention to detail leaves quite a bit to be desired.
I felt the same way and It did get fixed, but it put a damper on the excitement of having it done!! Made me rethink a few things
and seeing how close everything is was a real eye opener. Thought you all could learn something from my misfortune.
Respect you all !!
Best regards
John
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Olds 455 / 403 Second Drain [message #201234 is a reply to message #201213] |
Sun, 10 March 2013 18:05 |
|
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Jim,
Thanks for the kudos; however, I just plagiarized the info from other guys! ;-)
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Kanomata
I am for the additional drain plug.
When the coach is on ire ramp, it tends to be level, and with soft front
mounts it will hold close to 1 quart.
I understand that while the engine is running there is not much there in
the front cavity.
When I change the oil, I like to drain as much as I can.
Cad engines had the aux drain, possibly the person in charge felt it was
important.
one way or the other , points are well taken.
I will continue to run my Cad 540 with 2 drains and the 403 with one till I
need to redo the engine. At that time I will go either.
Rob, You took the time to show us, I appreciate it very much and so do
others.
Thank s to you and others that are inputting information.
Jim
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Olds 455 / 403 Second Drain [message #201268 is a reply to message #201204] |
Mon, 11 March 2013 04:55 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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John,
Your wish is my command:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=6319
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Heslinga
Hi All
Only for discussion sake and Related to this subject I have a photo of the interior of the Olds oil pan.
See the Windage plate.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/discussion-photos/p47966-oil-pan-windage-fittin.html
Worthy of note: the oil that collects in the front of the oil pan is blown and splashed from this area by the crankshaft motion into
the louvre of this Windage plate and drained back to the rear sump. Effectively pumping the oil to the rear sump. The splashing of
the oil in this area can cause foaming, airiation, excess oil misting, and a lot of oil on the cylinder and block walls in this
area. The excess oil splash causes problems for oil rings and PCV systems. This helps to eliminate those problems and keep this part
of the oil pan from collecting too much oil. While a static oil pan filled to its brim looks like a big problem, this explains
why you get less oil than you might expect when draining this area
Does a Cadillac 500 have the same?. If the Crank does not come so close to the pan the oil will have a chance too pool and must be
drained. Isn't the oil pump in the front of the engine and the pan needs to have room for it? I don't really know about the Caddys
.
Best regards
John
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Olds 455 / 403 Second Drain [message #201370 is a reply to message #201268] |
Tue, 12 March 2013 01:05 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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John, The CAD has an external pump on the right front.
I notice that my %$) does tend to nose down as I use the wish bone style
front motormonnt.
When I drain the oil from the front, it feel more like a quart that drains
from there than 1/2 quart.
Since we have oil cooler and lines that retain at least anther 1/2 qt. of
fluid, I for one want to drain as much as I can,
Being in the filtration business, I know we can run the filter in an
average environment for 8-10,000 miles before changing the filter, but it
is all about the amount of oil that we can replace, so I replace the filter.
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 2:58 AM, Robert Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> John,
>
> Your wish is my command:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=6319
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Heslinga
>
> Hi All
> Only for discussion sake and Related to this subject I have a photo of the
> interior of the Olds oil pan.
> See the Windage plate.
>
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/discussion-photos/p47966-oil-pan-windage-fittin.html
>
> Worthy of note: the oil that collects in the front of the oil pan is blown
> and splashed from this area by the crankshaft motion into
> the louvre of this Windage plate and drained back to the rear sump.
> Effectively pumping the oil to the rear sump. The splashing of
> the oil in this area can cause foaming, airiation, excess oil misting, and
> a lot of oil on the cylinder and block walls in this
> area. The excess oil splash causes problems for oil rings and PCV systems.
> This helps to eliminate those problems and keep this part
> of the oil pan from collecting too much oil. While a static oil pan
> filled to its brim looks like a big problem, this explains
> why you get less oil than you might expect when draining this area
>
> Does a Cadillac 500 have the same?. If the Crank does not come so close
> to the pan the oil will have a chance too pool and must be
> drained. Isn't the oil pump in the front of the engine and the pan needs
> to have room for it? I don't really know about the Caddys
> .
>
> Best regards
> John
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Olds 455 / 403 Second Drain [message #201458 is a reply to message #201172] |
Tue, 12 March 2013 21:03 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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""My opinion (for most GMCers) is that: with regular (Good maintenance intervals) oil changes, having that second drain should not be a priority of anyone who is not having an engine done or who has not had this done, or really is not interested in spending the extra cost. (In other words: for those that don't have this feature, they should not lose any sleep over it.)
""
Totally agree--many more important things to worry about than that
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Olds 455 / 403 Second Drain [message #201465 is a reply to message #201140] |
Tue, 12 March 2013 21:43 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Rob and Jim:
Thanks for the Info. Now I see the similarities. That Caddy Pan has an interesting baffle.
With the extra oil in the pan, Oil Coolers, and Lifter gallery, we can see that there is a certain amount of residual oil left in the angine after draining from the stock drain plug.
This discussion has been really good to help make things really clear to anyone not having an extra drain, that they should be changing that oil regularly following good intervals.
Best regards
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: [GMCnet] Olds 455 / 403 Second Drain [message #201529 is a reply to message #201465] |
Wed, 13 March 2013 09:10 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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John,
You're welcome.
You're right, that baffle interested me too. The only thing I can figger is that it keeps / slows down the oil being whipped up by
the crank / rods.
As far as I can tell it doesn't function like the one in the Olds pan.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Heslinga
Rob and Jim:
Thanks for the Info. Now I see the similarities. That Caddy Pan has an interesting baffle.
With the extra oil in the pan, Oil Coolers, and Lifter gallery, we can see that there is a certain amount of residual oil left in
the angine after draining from the stock drain plug.
This discussion has been really good to help make things really clear to anyone not having an extra drain, that they should be
changing that oil regularly following good intervals.
Best regards
--
John
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GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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