Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: [GMCnet] Royale Center Kitchen [message #196906 is a reply to message #196902] |
Wed, 30 January 2013 21:41   |
Ron Murray
Messages: 20
Registered: January 2013
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Is it by chance a 455?
Ron
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:33 PM, Todd Sullivan <sgltrac@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have a 77 royale and it is a center kitchen
>
> Sully
> 77 royale
> Seattle
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 30, 2013, at 7:13 PM, Ron Murray <77eleganza455@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Was the GMC Royale Center Kitchen, interior by Coachmen, only built in
> > 1978? Or was some built in 1977, that have 455's? How many center
> kitchen's
> > were built in total?
> >
> > Ron
> > 77eleganza455
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: [GMCnet] Royale Center Kitchen [message #196908 is a reply to message #196902] |
Wed, 30 January 2013 21:47 |
Don A
Messages: 895
Registered: October 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
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| sgltrac wrote on Wed, 30 January 2013 21:33 |
I have a 77 royale and it is a center kitchen
Sully, 77 royale, Seattle
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Sully, 403 or 455 ?
Don Adams Dallas, TX
'76 26' Glenbrook, '90 Sidekick
rebuilt by R Archer, powered by J Bounds, Koba
[IMG]http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6109/G2.jpg[/IMG]
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| Re: [GMCnet] Royale Center Kitchen [message #196913 is a reply to message #196910] |
Wed, 30 January 2013 22:02 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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| Dennis S wrote on Wed, 30 January 2013 21:52 |
| Ron Murray wrote on Wed, 30 January 2013 21:13 |
Was the GMC Royale Center Kitchen, interior by Coachmen, only built in
1978? Or was some built in 1977, that have 455's? How many center kitchen's
were built in total?
Ron
77eleganza455
_______________________________________________
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Also built in 1976...and with 455
http://bdub.net/publications/1976%20Royale%202/76royal22.htm
Dennis
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It occurs to me "center kitchn" may not mean the same to all of use. You may be referring to the kitchen behind the entry door.
Dennis
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] Royale Center Kitchen [message #196915 is a reply to message #196910] |
Wed, 30 January 2013 22:15 |
Ron Murray
Messages: 20
Registered: January 2013
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The Royale center kitchen I am referring to, has the kitchen located on the
curb side of the coach. The kitchen is located to the rear of the entry
door. I'm not sure but I think it's the only '73 to '78 GMC MH with the
kitchen on the curb side of the coach, and I have only found it in
1978 Royale's by Coachman. Therefore they are only 403's and no 455's?
If this is true, will a rebuilt 455 and transmission bolt up the same and
replace the 403 without major modifications?
Ron
77eleganza455
Seattle
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:52 PM, Dennis Sexton <dennisfsexton@aol.com>wrote:
>
>
> Ron Murray wrote on Wed, 30 January 2013 21:13
> > Was the GMC Royale Center Kitchen, interior by Coachmen, only built in
> > 1978? Or was some built in 1977, that have 455's? How many center
> kitchen's
> > were built in total?
> >
> > Ron
> > 77eleganza455
> > _______________________________________________
>
>
> Also built in 1976...and with 455
>
> http://bdub.net/publications/1976%20Royale%202/76royal22.htm
>
> Dennis
> --
> Dennis S
> 73 Painted Desert 230
> Germantown, TN
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: [GMCnet] Royale Center Kitchen [message #196917 is a reply to message #196915] |
Wed, 30 January 2013 23:34 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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455
Sorry for the late reply but it apparently is now moot :). The kitchen in mine looks like a 70s brochure that I have seen when I google image gmc motorhome. Kitchen counter from the back of the drivers seat to the refrigerator which is directly opposite the entry door.
Sully
77 royale
06 e55 amg
Seattle
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 30, 2013, at 8:15 PM, Ron Murray <77eleganza455@gmail.com> wrote:
> The Royale center kitchen I am referring to, has the kitchen located on the
> curb side of the coach. The kitchen is located to the rear of the entry
> door. I'm not sure but I think it's the only '73 to '78 GMC MH with the
> kitchen on the curb side of the coach, and I have only found it in
> 1978 Royale's by Coachman. Therefore they are only 403's and no 455's?
> If this is true, will a rebuilt 455 and transmission bolt up the same and
> replace the 403 without major modifications?
>
> Ron
> 77eleganza455
> Seattle
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:52 PM, Dennis Sexton <dennisfsexton@aol.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Ron Murray wrote on Wed, 30 January 2013 21:13
>>> Was the GMC Royale Center Kitchen, interior by Coachmen, only built in
>>> 1978? Or was some built in 1977, that have 455's? How many center
>> kitchen's
>>> were built in total?
>>>
>>> Ron
>>> 77eleganza455
>>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Also built in 1976...and with 455
>>
>> http://bdub.net/publications/1976%20Royale%202/76royal22.htm
>>
>> Dennis
>> --
>> Dennis S
>> 73 Painted Desert 230
>> Germantown, TN
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Royale Center Kitchen [message #196920 is a reply to message #196915] |
Wed, 30 January 2013 23:51 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Ron,
The 23' Avion has the galley on the passenger side like the Royale:
http://www.bdub.net/publications/Avion2/avion-int-231.htm
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Murray
The Royale center kitchen I am referring to, has the kitchen located on the
curb side of the coach. The kitchen is located to the rear of the entry
door. I'm not sure but I think it's the only '73 to '78 GMC MH with the
kitchen on the curb side of the coach, and I have only found it in
1978 Royale's by Coachman. Therefore they are only 403's and no 455's?
If this is true, will a rebuilt 455 and transmission bolt up the same and
replace the 403 without major modifications?
Ron
77eleganza455
Seattle
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Royale Center Kitchen [message #196921 is a reply to message #196917] |
Thu, 31 January 2013 00:06 |
John Sharpe
Messages: 489
Registered: February 2006
Location: Texas
Karma: 1
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| Quote: |
...will a rebuilt 455 and transmission bolt up the same and
> replace the 403 without major modifications?....
|
There is nothing unique about the TH425 transmissions. They bolt up to the 403 and 455. The 455 can be installed where a 403 was. The motor mount is the same. However, the accessory brackets won't fit and I would not advise using the 403's right hand exhaust manifold on a 455.
John Sharpe
Humble,TX
'78 Eleganza TBI
'89 Spectrum 2000 MPI V-10
'40 Ford Panel Delivery TPI
johnasharpe@gmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Royale Center Kitchen [message #196923 is a reply to message #196917] |
Thu, 31 January 2013 00:17 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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A couple of points:
1. All but one Royale layout had the kitchen behind the drivers seat. None of these was called a "center kitchen."
2. All of the published Royale layouts put the refer across from the entrance door.
3. The true center kitchen has the kitchen just aft of the entrance door... over the curb side rear wheel well. (See link below at the bottom of the page.)
4. Coachman was known to put out one-off models with "normal furnishings" rearranged. So it is possible that almost any layout could show up from any year. BUT... the only year that the published brochures list a center kitchen (Ck layout) is the 1978 brochure: <http://www.bdub.net/publications/1978_GMC_by_Coachman/1978_GMC_Coachman7.htm>
5. As all Ck layout were 1978 (supposedly), they all would have left the factory with 403's. It is possible that a 455 was swapped in. I understand that in late 1977 and 1978, some dealers actually ordered 455's just to make the swap for customers. Removing brand new 403s. (Yes, they just bolt in... with the correct brackets and stuff.) This also means that some came with EL and some with EL2.
6. I also think the Ck was the only _26 foot_ GMC with the kitchen on the curb side. MOST 23 foot coaches also had the kitchen on the curb side. Seems (IIRC) for 23 foot coaches, the side baths had curb side kitchens, rear bath had street side kitchens.
| sgltrac wrote on Wed, 30 January 2013 21:34 |
... The kitchen in mine looks like a 70s brochure that I have seen when I google image gmc motorhome. Kitchen counter from the back of the drivers seat to the refrigerator which is directly opposite the entry door.
On Jan 30, 2013, at 8:15 PM, Ron Murray <77eleganza455@gmail.com> wrote:
> The Royale center kitchen I am referring to, has the kitchen located on the
> curb side of the coach. The kitchen is located to the rear of the entry
> door. I'm not sure but I think it's the only '73 to '78 GMC MH with the
> kitchen on the curb side of the coach, and I have only found it in
> 1978 Royale's by Coachman. Therefore they are only 403's and no 455's?
> If this is true, will a rebuilt 455 and transmission bolt up the same and
> replace the 403 without major modifications?
|
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Royale Center Kitchen [message #196928 is a reply to message #196898] |
Thu, 31 January 2013 01:08 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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This all begs the question - why the interest in a motor swap? I can say with absolute certainty that a 403 will move a '78 Royale Center Kitchen along very nicely.
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: [GMCnet] Royale Center Kitchen [message #196932 is a reply to message #196928] |
Thu, 31 January 2013 04:46 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| habbyguy wrote on Wed, 30 January 2013 23:08 |
This all begs the question - why the interest in a motor swap? I can say with absolute certainty that a 403 will move a '78 Royale Center Kitchen along very nicely.
|
It was from a question by Ron Murray. at this was his first post, I suspect he either has just purchased or is thinking about purchasing a 1978 Ck Royale. Like many, he has questions about the "smaller" motor.
OBTW: welcome aboard Ron! ... Let us know if your are a want-to-be or an owner. You location would also be nice.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Royale Center Kitchen [message #196943 is a reply to message #196902] |
Thu, 31 January 2013 07:30 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Our center kitchen is a 78 with a 403.
Ray
Ray & Lisa
78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
________________________________
From: Todd Sullivan <sgltrac@gmail.com>
To: "gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org" <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Cc: "gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org" <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Wed, January 30, 2013 9:33:59 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Royale Center Kitchen
I have a 77 royale and it is a center kitchen
Sully
77 royale
Seattle
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 30, 2013, at 7:13 PM, Ron Murray <77eleganza455@gmail.com> wrote:
> Was the GMC Royale Center Kitchen, interior by Coachmen, only built in
> 1978? Or was some built in 1977, that have 455's? How many center kitchen's
> were built in total?
>
> Ron
> 77eleganza455
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Royale Center Kitchen [message #196951 is a reply to message #196898] |
Thu, 31 January 2013 09:25 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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Ron,
A little off topic, but...It looks like you have found your GMC (sig line says "77 Eleganza455"). Congratulations! Just a note to let you know the Kingsley you were considering, in Tucson, has been sold after being inspected and found to be in very good condition with only a few minor issues. The new owner will be picking it up today. I hope to meet him.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
[Updated on: Thu, 31 January 2013 09:26] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Royale Center Kitchen [message #196962 is a reply to message #196932] |
Thu, 31 January 2013 10:51 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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| Mike Miller wrote on Thu, 31 January 2013 03:46 |
| habbyguy wrote on Wed, 30 January 2013 23:08 |
This all begs the question - why the interest in a motor swap? I can say with absolute certainty that a 403 will move a '78 Royale Center Kitchen along very nicely.
|
It was from a question by Ron Murray. at this was his first post, I suspect he either has just purchased or is thinking about purchasing a 1978 Ck Royale. Like many, he has questions about the "smaller" motor.
|
That was my assumption, too. I remember when I first started looking at GMCs, I was concerned about the horrific loss of power I'd have to endure by buying a late '77 or '78 model with their "tiny" little 403ci motors. Then I did the research and found that there's a whopping 12 horsepower difference between the two, and some other ancillary benefits to the 403. I'll try not to start a 455 vs. 403 war, but suffice it to say that there's really no reason at all to be concerned about having the 403 in your coach. I have PLENTY of power with my "mouse motor", and wouldn't swap it for a 455 if I could do it by snapping my fingers.
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: [GMCnet] Royale Center Kitchen [message #196964 is a reply to message #196962] |
Thu, 31 January 2013 11:08 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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We have the 403 with the 3:70 final drive. We tow a cargo trailer with a Harley
plus a bunch of other crap in it with a total weight of approx. 3,000 lbs
including the trailer. Our coach performs fantastic. Plenty of get up and go,
I have to pay attention to keep my top speed down to 70. I'm very happy with
this package.
There are pro's and con's for both engines, bottom line is that both are good
and will do the job well. Whichever one you have, use it and enjoy it.
Oh, and with either one, you'll probably get 8 -10 MPG !! LOL
Ray
Ray & Lisa
78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
________________________________
From: Mark <mark@habcycles.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thu, January 31, 2013 10:51:18 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Royale Center Kitchen
Mike Miller wrote on Thu, 31 January 2013 03:46
> habbyguy wrote on Wed, 30 January 2013 23:08
> > This all begs the question - why the interest in a motor swap? I can say
>with absolute certainty that a 403 will move a '78 Royale Center Kitchen along
>very nicely.
>
>
> It was from a question by Ron Murray. at this was his first post, I suspect he
>either has just purchased or is thinking about purchasing a 1978 Ck Royale.
>Like many, he has questions about the "smaller" motor.
That was my assumption, too. I remember when I first started looking at GMCs, I
was concerned about the horrific loss of power I'd have to endure by buying a
late '77 or '78 model with their "tiny" little 403ci motors. Then I did the
research and found that there's a whopping 12 horsepower difference between the
two, and some other ancillary benefits to the 403. I'll try not to start a 455
vs. 403 war, but suffice it to say that there's really no reason at all to be
concerned about having the 403 in your coach. I have PLENTY of power with my
"mouse motor", and wouldn't swap it for a 455 if I could do it by snapping my
fingers.
--
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Royale Center Kitchen [message #197011 is a reply to message #196964] |
Thu, 31 January 2013 20:51 |
Ron Murray
Messages: 20
Registered: January 2013
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Ray, & all
Thanks,
I'm curious what is the tac and vacuum readings at 60 mph and 70 mph w/ the
3:70 and how different w/ 3:07? The engine runs at higher rpm's, doesn't it
w/ the 3:70 gear ratio? Is it better to run at 55 mph, 60 mph, 65 mph, or
70 mph?
Lastly why do both the 403 and 455, need to be rebuilt at approximately
100k?
Do any make 200k?
And who rebuilds the best GMC 455 and 403?
How do I make a rebuilt preform well and last for 200k miles?
Ron
On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Ray Erspamer <78gmc-royale@att.net> wrote:
> We have the 403 with the 3:70 final drive. We tow a cargo trailer with a
> Harley
> plus a bunch of other crap in it with a total weight of approx. 3,000 lbs
> including the trailer. Our coach performs fantastic. Plenty of get up
> and go,
> I have to pay attention to keep my top speed down to 70. I'm very happy
> with
> this package.
>
> There are pro's and con's for both engines, bottom line is that both are
> good
> and will do the job well. Whichever one you have, use it and enjoy it.
>
> Oh, and with either one, you'll probably get 8 -10 MPG !! LOL
>
> Ray
>
>
> Ray & Lisa
> 78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
> Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
> Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
> Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
> 414-745-3188
> Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Mark <mark@habcycles.com>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Thu, January 31, 2013 10:51:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Royale Center Kitchen
>
>
>
> Mike Miller wrote on Thu, 31 January 2013 03:46
> > habbyguy wrote on Wed, 30 January 2013 23:08
> > > This all begs the question - why the interest in a motor swap? I can
> say
> >with absolute certainty that a 403 will move a '78 Royale Center Kitchen
> along
> >very nicely.
> >
> >
> > It was from a question by Ron Murray. at this was his first post, I
> suspect he
> >either has just purchased or is thinking about purchasing a 1978 Ck
> Royale.
> >Like many, he has questions about the "smaller" motor.
>
> That was my assumption, too. I remember when I first started looking at
> GMCs, I
> was concerned about the horrific loss of power I'd have to endure by
> buying a
> late '77 or '78 model with their "tiny" little 403ci motors. Then I did
> the
> research and found that there's a whopping 12 horsepower difference
> between the
> two, and some other ancillary benefits to the 403. I'll try not to start
> a 455
> vs. 403 war, but suffice it to say that there's really no reason at all to
> be
> concerned about having the 403 in your coach. I have PLENTY of power with
> my
> "mouse motor", and wouldn't swap it for a 455 if I could do it by snapping
> my
> fingers.
> --
> Mark Hickey
> Mesa, AZ
> 1978 Royale Center Kitchen
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Royale Center Kitchen [message #197014 is a reply to message #197011] |
Thu, 31 January 2013 21:25 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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| Ron Murray wrote on Thu, 31 January 2013 19:51 |
Ray, & all
Thanks,
I'm curious what is the tac and vacuum readings at 60 mph and 70 mph w/ the
3:70 and how different w/ 3:07? The engine runs at higher rpm's, doesn't it
w/ the 3:70 gear ratio? Is it better to run at 55 mph, 60 mph, 65 mph, or
70 mph?
Lastly why do both the 403 and 455, need to be rebuilt at approximately
100k?
Do any make 200k?
And who rebuilds the best GMC 455 and 403?
How do I make a rebuilt preform well and last for 200k miles?
|
The vacuum depends on the altitude, the terrain, and the weight (including what you're towing). I've seen my 403 pulling anywhere from 4 to 18 inches between 60 and 70mph, depending on the altitude.
Yes, higher numerical ratios in the "rear end" mean the engine turns faster. I have 3.42 gearing.
It's better to go slower for gas mileage and wear and tear on the engine (see a related thread that's currently going on now on the difference in gas mileage at various speeds).
The motor in ANY 12,000 pound vehicle is going to be stressed "just driving along", and will likely need to be gone over at around 100,000 miles (though some obviously do go farther between rebuilds). I haven't had enough experience to say who does the best rebuilds, though I know my recent (5,000 miles ago) rebuild at MGM GMC - done by the PO - has been done right, apparently. I've heard rumors that the 403s generally don't normally require a "full rebuild", but again, I haven't had mine long enough to find out.
I doubt many of the motors will be driven 200,000 miles before needing work, though it is probably possible with careful maintenance, frequent high-quality oil changes, and a very carefully placed right foot (maybe a 55mph max?).
Oh, here's a WEALTH of information on the subject (403 vs. 455 and rebuilding options): http://gmcmotorhome.info/engine.html#403_VS_455
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
[Updated on: Thu, 31 January 2013 21:29] Report message to a moderator |
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